Deconstructing Marrone: Hackett Not To Blame

[1billsfan]

In another thread last week someone ousted a quote from Hackett that basically said take what they give you and don't force the ball down field. That is playing scared. That is why they are ineffective in the red zone. That is why they check down.

 

 

I agree that they shouldn't go with the up tempo, but that was what Marrone/Hackett was suppose to bring, innovation got thrown around a lot. My question is, what is this offense? What is their philosophy?

 

Be very afraid of interceptions so you don't ever throw the ball deep, then eek out a TD and enough FGs to win you games against the average to bad teams and even beat one very good team with four FGs because their QB was destroyed by your #1 defense.

 

This offense is suffocated by the very very conservative play calling. It's a wet blanket. The overwhelming amount of short passes are killing this team's running game and the ability to score TDs. The opposing defenses have no need to worry about defending beyond the sticks because the Bills have been so nice as to have taken that option off the table themselves. The only way you open up the running game and also score TDs is by challenging teams with the deep ball. This is the main reason for Hackett's failure as an OC.

Edited December 19, 2014 by 1billsfan

[Dan]

I think we can all agree that the offense is the unit holding this team back. I think we can also agree that we've had nearly 2 full years of this inept offense. So, Hackett has had 2 years, 4 QBs, 4RBs, fast WRs, shifty WRs, and multiple Linemen. And yet, there is absolutely nothing consistent or good about this offense. No one can even state with any certainty what our offensive philosophy is.

 

Does anyone really think that we can add a couple of average payers in the off season and suddenly Hackett's design is finally going to come together?

 

Furthermore, has anyone considered, regarding the all 22s, that opposing defenses have completely figured out our offense, therefore they leave WRs open, because they know exactly where the QB wants to go with the ball? Or when the RB is goign to get it? Or exactly when and where to blitz to throw off the timing. So, yeah, plays look like they're there to be had... but in real time the defense is actually dicatating to our predictable offense.

[Manther]

 

 

Well said Dork. That's been my problem all along with Hackett. Too many players have regressed. Could Hackett be a top OC with Rodgers? Of course but how is that good coaching.

 

The offensive coaches failed to develop Manuel so far (Hackett being his QB coach and OC was awful), the oline has seriously regressed, and the use of Spiller was so misguided. At some point when you struggle to score 17 points consistently in a league that begs you to score, it's a major problem. Especially when you have a SB caliber defense.

Exactly

[JC2002]

I think we can all agree that the offense is the unit holding this team back. I think we can also agree that we've had nearly 2 full years of this inept offense. So, Hackett has had 2 years, 4 QBs, 4RBs, fast WRs, shifty WRs, and multiple Linemen. And yet, there is absolutely nothing consistent or good about this offense. No one can even state with any certainty what our offensive philosophy is.

 

Does anyone really think that we can add a couple of average payers in the off season and suddenly Hackett's design is finally going to come together?

 

Furthermore, has anyone considered, regarding the all 22s, that opposing defenses have completely figured out our offense, therefore they leave WRs open, because they know exactly where the QB wants to go with the ball? Or when the RB is goign to get it? Or exactly when and where to blitz to throw off the timing. So, yeah, plays look like they're there to be had... but in real time the defense is actually dicatating to our predictable offense.

 

Thats on point Dan

[yungmack]

If a head coach is secure in his job and the team is winning consistently with O and D, I can see him falling on his sword for his OC. I think Marrone is probably pretty secure, so I have these questions about Marrone's deflecting the heat away from Hackett:

 

1. Is this just coachspeak, like his weekly "We've got to get better" statement?

2. Is Hackett going to be part of the package, i.e. Marrone stays = Hackett stays?

3. Is it a stall tactic because Marrone is not certain what Terkimula will want for changes?

4. This is overthinking, but does Marrone need to appear to be supportive of his OC to make the hiring of a new OC a bit smoother? (You wouldn't want to to work for a HC who throws his OC under the bus, right?)

 

Okay, TBD, break this down for me. I know football is a team game, takes 11 guys, it's all in the execution, blah blah blah. What is going on here?

 

Link

 

EDIT: GO BILLS!!!

All your points are salient. And I know that the general consensus around here is that the QBs stink and so does Hackett. But the real problem might very well be Marrone. I can't seem to find out who actually is running the offense, and our intrepid team reporters don't seem interested in reporting anything other than what the team issues. I wonder, for example, if Hackett gets to decide on the make-up of the offensive line, and if he gets to determine who his active receivers are for a particular game. As the OC, with the responsibility for the quality of the offense, that he would get to make those decisions. But if it's Marrone, then he has to take responsibility for blowing up last year's mediocre line and reconstructing it as the joke it was earlier in the year. And he has to take responsibility for the misuse of Mike Williams as well. From there, I wonder if Marrone is active in the offensive game plan and in the play-calling. If Hackett is just his butt-boy, without authority, then replacing him will change nothing so long as Marrone continues with his limited and boring and stubborn approach to the offense.

 

BTW, as a counter example to the Bills O struggles, look at Arizona. Somehow or other, Arians manages to get respectable production out of his Offense, including decent QB play from Palmer, Stanton and now from a guy he snatched off of SD's practice squad (shades of Jeff Tuel-Time). I'll be paying attention to how this latest change turns out but I'm expecting, once again, at least decent performance, unlike Buffalo's offense, which hit new depths of incompetence against GB.

 

While I'm spewing here, I was wondering what you all think about Mark Helfrich as a replacement for Marrone?

[hondo in seattle]

I've made both of these statements in other thread but they are worth repeating

1.) If we had a competent QB who could make simple throws, we would be easily in the playoffs and this conversation about the OC would not be happening

2.) The offense is Marrone's offense. I don't think Hackett has autonomy, therefore he does not deserve the blame. Unless Marrone is willing to give up control of the offense to a new OC, I think Hackett stays.

 

I think Hackett has some authority but this is indeed Marrone's offense. And I think Hackett deserves blame because he's running Marrone's system (which he helped develop at Syracuse) to the very best of his ability. I don't think Hackett would be any better if he was granted more autonomy.

 

If Marrone is pressured into firing Hackett, things will become interesting for Marrone. Right now, Marrone is running his offense through his protege who shares the same offensive philosophy. How well would Marrone handle an OC who was an independent thinker and wanted autonomy?

[Whack 'Em Williams]

Hope it's all just PR and keeping the peace.

[John from Riverside]

Bottom line

 

This offense does not score enough points.

 

Everything else is just white noise.

[K-9]

So what "system" would Orton and his flat-footed inability to move in the pocket lend itself best to?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Maddog69]

I think we can all agree that the offense is the unit holding this team back. I think we can also agree that we've had nearly 2 full years of this inept offense. So, Hackett has had 2 years, 4 QBs, 4RBs, fast WRs, shifty WRs, and multiple Linemen. And yet, there is absolutely nothing consistent or good about this offense. No one can even state with any certainty what our offensive philosophy is.

 

Does anyone really think that we can add a couple of average payers in the off season and suddenly Hackett's design is finally going to come together?

 

Furthermore, has anyone considered, regarding the all 22s, that opposing defenses have completely figured out our offense, therefore they leave WRs open, because they know exactly where the QB wants to go with the ball? Or when the RB is goign to get it? Or exactly when and where to blitz to throw off the timing. So, yeah, plays look like they're there to be had... but in real time the defense is actually dicatating to our predictable offense.

So, who is at fault? Is it Hackett? Is it the fact that, as you stated, He's had 4 QB (none of which are good)? He's had numerous mediocre receivers and multiple mediocre OL to run the offense. He has no real legit threats at TE to work with. So, what do we really expect from Hackett?

 

Now let's go a step further. This offense is Marrone's. Hackett does not have autonomy to run the offense as Schwartz does with the defense. This makes it even more difficult to divide the blame for the lackluster offense.

 

I have been frustrated with play calls at various times over the last couple of seasons. But I have also been frustrated by the OL's ability to pick up a stunt and their penchant for stupid penalties at horribly inopportune times. I've been frustrated by RB's dancing rather than hitting holes, missing blitz pickups, dropping screens. I've been frustrated with both QB's this year for inaccurate throws, missed reads, holding the ball too long, sliding on 3rd and one and missing WIDE OPEN Receivers in the red zone.

 

Point is, there is plenty of blame to go around. Hackett/Marrone have room for improvement as do many of the players on the offense. And the FO has a chance to add talent to the roster in the offseason. All in all, this has been one of the best seasons the Bills have had since the turn of the century. While we all want more, I'm going to enjoy the playoff hunt for the next few weeks and I look forward to the offseason to see what impact the new ownership has on the team as we move forward and build on the first winning season in a decade.

 

[Dan]

So, who is at fault? Is it Hackett? Is it the fact that, as you stated, He's had 4 QB (none of which are good)? He's had numerous mediocre receivers and multiple mediocre OL to run the offense. He has no real legit threats at TE to work with. So, what do we really expect from Hackett?

 

Now let's go a step further. This offense is Marrone's. Hackett does not have autonomy to run the offense as Schwartz does with the defense. This makes it even more difficult to divide the blame for the lackluster offense.

 

I have been frustrated with play calls at various times over the last couple of seasons. But I have also been frustrated by the OL's ability to pick up a stunt and their penchant for stupid penalties at horribly inopportune times. I've been frustrated by RB's dancing rather than hitting holes, missing blitz pickups, dropping screens. I've been frustrated with both QB's this year for inaccurate throws, missed reads, holding the ball too long, sliding on 3rd and one and missing WIDE OPEN Receivers in the red zone.

 

Point is, there is plenty of blame to go around. Hackett/Marrone have room for improvement as do many of the players on the offense. And the FO has a chance to add talent to the roster in the offseason. All in all, this has been one of the best seasons the Bills have had since the turn of the century. While we all want more, I'm going to enjoy the playoff hunt for the next few weeks and I look forward to the offseason to see what impact the new ownership has on the team as we move forward and build on the first winning season in a decade.

My point is numerous posters have blamed the players... saying all we need is a better player and the offense would be fine. But, in 2 years it still isn't. Remember back when EJ sucked and was the worst QB in the league... well insert Orton whom so many claimed just didn't have to suck to have the offense clicking. Now... Orton is the worst QB in the league. Remember back when CJ was the worst back because he couldn't hit a hole... well insert Boobie and Brown whom so many claimed would be better because they wouldn't try to bounce everything outside. Now.. our run offense is worse than its been all season (Jackson's 71yds last week is the most in a single game by any RB all season!).

 

So, we've had the opportunity to start different players, that at one point in time had to be upgrades, but the results have all been the same. Now.... we have to get yet another QB, another RB, another whatever... that's what Hackett needs. At some point, isn't it fair to say Hackett had had plenty of decent players to work with yet they're all under performing. At some point, isn't it fair to ask what he's doing to actually make this offense better?

 

And none of this even mentions the point that multiple knowledgeable, former players have come to the same conclusion regarding this offense... it's predicatable. The death knell for any offense is being overly predictable. But, all we have to do is trade for Manning or Brady and Hackett's genius will finally shine through. oooook

[section122]

 

BTW, as a counter example to the Bills O struggles, look at Arizona. Somehow or other, Arians manages to get respectable production out of his Offense, including decent QB play from Palmer, Stanton and now from a guy he snatched off of SD's practice squad (shades of Jeff Tuel-Time). I'll be paying attention to how this latest change turns out but I'm expecting, once again, at least decent performance, unlike Buffalo's offense, which hit new depths of incompetence against GB.

 

 

Just 13 posts before this I posted something that refutes pretty much all of this. Since Palmer went down the Cardinals are averaging 12.8 ppg. For the year their offense ranks below the Bills in yards per game, points per game, and rushing yards per game. Please tell me more about this respectable production Arian's has gotten from the Cardinals.

[The Big Cat]

My point is numerous posters have blamed the players... saying all we need is a better player and the offense would be fine. But, in 2 years it still isn't. Remember back when EJ sucked and was the worst QB in the league... well insert Orton whom so many claimed just didn't have to suck to have the offense clicking. Now... Orton is the worst QB in the league. Remember back when CJ was the worst back because he couldn't hit a hole... well insert Boobie and Brown whom so many claimed would be better because they wouldn't try to bounce everything outside. Now.. our run offense is worse than its been all season (Jackson's 71yds last week is the most in a single game by any RB all season!).

 

So, we've had the opportunity to start different players, that at one point in time had to be upgrades, but the results have all been the same. Now.... we have to get yet another QB, another RB, another whatever... that's what Hackett needs. At some point, isn't it fair to say Hackett had had plenty of decent players to work with yet they're all under performing. At some point, isn't it fair to ask what he's doing to actually make this offense better?

 

And none of this even mentions the point that multiple knowledgeable, former players have come to the same conclusion regarding this offense... it's predicatable. The death knell for any offense is being overly predictable. But, all we have to do is trade for Manning or Brady and Hackett's genius will finally shine through. oooook

 

It seems as though you're refuting a lot of points that no one ever made.

 

Just 13 posts before this I posted something that refutes pretty much all of this. Since Palmer went down the Cardinals are averaging 12.8 ppg. For the year their offense ranks below the Bills in yards per game, points per game, and rushing yards per game. Please tell me more about this respectable production Arian's has gotten from the Cardinals.

 

If you think Buffalo's run game is a travesty, just tune into a Cardinals game. Ooooo boy.

[Whack 'Em Williams]

If hes not to blame then the HC needs to be replaced for not making any changes sooner.

[Maddog69]

 

My point is numerous posters have blamed the players... saying all we need is a better player and the offense would be fine. But, in 2 years it still isn't. Remember back when EJ sucked and was the worst QB in the league... well insert Orton whom so many claimed just didn't have to suck to have the offense clicking. Now... Orton is the worst QB in the league. Remember back when CJ was the worst back because he couldn't hit a hole... well insert Boobie and Brown whom so many claimed would be better because they wouldn't try to bounce everything outside. Now.. our run offense is worse than its been all season (Jackson's 71yds last week is the most in a single game by any RB all season!).

 

So, we've had the opportunity to start different players, that at one point in time had to be upgrades, but the results have all been the same. Now.... we have to get yet another QB, another RB, another whatever... that's what Hackett needs. At some point, isn't it fair to say Hackett had had plenty of decent players to work with yet they're all under performing. At some point, isn't it fair to ask what he's doing to actually make this offense better?

 

And none of this even mentions the point that multiple knowledgeable, former players have come to the same conclusion regarding this offense... it's predicatable. The death knell for any offense is being overly predictable. But, all we have to do is trade for Manning or Brady and Hackett's genius will finally shine through. oooook

seems like your biggest mistake is listening to people on here who say stupid things. People overstate how good a player they like is and the exaggerate how bad the other guy is. That's what people do on message boards. There's very little common sense.

 

Like I said, the Offense has had issues and there are numerous reasons for this. Coaching needs to get better, the front office needs to find some better players and the players have to execute.

 

Bottom line is that we are better than we've been in a long time. We still may make the playoffs and if we miss, it will be because of a few plays here or there. I think this same roster could go into next season and make the playoffs. I'm not going to overreact. Is Hackett great? NO. Is he the worst OC in the league, probably not. Same with Orton and EJ, both are serviceable. We could be in a worse situation at QB. The team is on the upswing and we are not far off.

 

Ignore the idiots and enjoy the ride.

 

[FireChan]

seems like your biggest mistake is listening to people on here who say stupid things. People overstate how good a player they like is and the exaggerate how bad the other guy is. That's what people do on message boards. There's very little common sense.

 

Like I said, the Offense has had issues and there are numerous reasons for this. Coaching needs to get better, the front office needs to find some better players and the players have to execute.

 

Bottom line is that we are better than we've been in a long time. We still may make the playoffs and if we miss, it will be because of a few plays here or there. I think this same roster could go into next season and make the playoffs. I'm not going to overreact. Is Hackett great? NO. Is he the worst OC in the league, probably not. Same with Orton and EJ, both are serviceable. We could be in a worse situation at QB. The team is on the upswing and we are not far off.

 

Ignore the idiots and enjoy the ride.

 

The Green Bay win changed your mind?

[section122]

If you think Buffalo's run game is a travesty, just tune into a Cardinals game. Ooooo boy.

 

People continually talk about how great the Chiefs, Cards, and Niners offenses are and they are all ranked in the bottom third in most categories. It is maddening to say the least.

[The Big Cat]

People continually talk about how great the Chiefs, Cards, and Niners offenses are and they are all ranked in the bottom third in most categories. It is maddening to say the least.

 

Antonio Brown has more receptions this year than all the Chiefs WR combined. As a unit they've yet to catch a touchdown this season.

[Maddog69]

 

 

The Green Bay win changed your mind?

You know, it really did.

The offense was still not good, but the fact that this defense was able to shut down two future hall of famers in consecutive weeks really got me thinking that this team is on the right track. There is room for improvement on the offense. I think they will improve the OL. And I think Orton's struggles have really brought focus to the problems on the Offense and made people realize that it wasn't all EJ. I'm hoping we can sneak into the playoffs. That would be great. If not, I think improvements will be made next year that should put the team in the playoffs. If they miss the playoffs next year, then I think the Pegula's will blow it up and start over with a high profile coach. But (assuming a win this week), you cannot make a HC change after the first winning season in a decade.

[section122]

Antonio Brown has more receptions this year than all the Chiefs WR combined. As a unit they've yet to catch a touchdown this season.

 

Yeah but just imagine what an offensive genius like Andy Reid could do with this offense.

 

You know, it really did.

The offense was still not good, but the fact that this defense was able to shut down two future hall of famers in consecutive weeks really got me thinking that this team is on the right track. There is room for improvement on the offense. I think they will improve the OL. And I think Orton's struggles have really brought focus to the problems on the Offense and made people realize that it wasn't all EJ. I'm hoping we can sneak into the playoffs. That would be great. If not, I think improvements will be made next year that should put the team in the playoffs. If they miss the playoffs next year, then I think the Pegula's will blow it up and start over with a high profile coach. But (assuming a win this week), you cannot make a HC change after the first winning season in a decade.

 

Welcome to the "enjoying the best season in years" club. Or the dark side whichever you prefer.

Edited December 19, 2014 by section122