less propaganda, and more accountability

[metzelaars_lives]

That all sounds fine until you realize that if someone like Phillip Rivers or even someone like Joe Flacco was our QB the "ill-coached passing attack" would be working fine. I find it hard to blame the coaches for a QB missing open receivers constantly.

Or if someone like Tom Brady was our qb we'd be even better but you wouldn't know because you wouldn't be watching. Would you at least still come on here to see what people were saying about it? Would you read a Tom Brady-led bills box score?

[Coach Tuesday]

Thread of the year candidate, this.

[Rocky Landing]

I think there is a very typical, knee-jerk reaction that when there are problems, firing someone is a "step in the right direction." Has Marrone improved from last season to this? Has Hackett improved from last season? Starting from square one rarely takes a team to the next level- especially when the team has been moving in the right direction. Unless one equates "accountable" with getting fired, I don't see how Marrone/Hackett have not been accountable in their respective roles.

[Prickly Pete]

The last four games to me by the eye test have been better play calling. These stats agree also.

 

I thought the Denver game was well planned, and they had some nicely designed plays that the players didn't execute well. This actually aggravated me more, because it feels like Hackett put more work into that game plan, and made me think he should have worked as hard EVERY week.

 

I still rank the problems:

 

1- Orton

2- Oline

3- WR's

4- Hackett

5- RB's

Edited December 20, 2014 by HoF Watkins

[3rdand12]

I just think that Hackett outsmarts himself.....a. sign of a very bad or a very inexperienced offensive coordinator.

 

How about this

 

When a team has shown they cant stop the run? You RUN THE BALL....especially when your D is making sure that you are not falling behind

 

Against a team that has shown weak against the pass.....YOU PASS THE BALL......with a D you know is gonna get the ball back for you

 

I know that seems way to easy to work.....but quite simply....it is the EXACT opposite of what Hackett does

So if its so obvious . why the hell are they doing that. There are multiple voices in the room. Each week they gameplan and no one says.

 

HEY ! I Have this crazy Idea ! How about we manipulate the other teams weaknesses to our advantage ?

 

Sure . I dont get it sometimes either.

But even if we dont get "it". The Offensive coaching and Marrone are not just being contrary for the sake of being contrary. That truly borders on insane.

And i cant believe that one bit.

But i noticed they keep doing things that dont work. The first 3 quarters of the year were telling.

 

Saving it for New England.

I will bet on that. Its all about beating Bellycheck. It will always be about beating the team that owns the division .

Marrone has been game planning this game every night since the loss. When he got an education from the hooded one

 

I have watched a few games this season with a friend of a friend who was once a college QB... I know those aren't necessarily the greatest credentials, but he seems to know a fair amount about what he (we) are watching...he is really into watching game film...

 

During the last Miami game, people were getting pretty down on Orton. The guy, not really a Bills fan, seems to think we may have an over-inflated sense of how good the Bills receiving corp really is...he mentioned it a few times this season...just gave me a moment of pause...

Its an admission more folks need to make.

The route running and timing and communication has been difficult.

Orton does not freelance for sh++

Edited December 20, 2014 by 3rdand12

[thewildrabbit]

I thought the Denver game was well planned, and they had some nicely designed plays that the players didn't execute well. This actually aggravated me more, because it feels like Hackett put more work into that game plan, and made me think he should have worked as hard EVERY week.

 

I still rank the problems:

 

1- Orton

2- Oline

3- WR's

4- Hackett

5- RB's

I see things differently as an OC shouldn't force any QB to fit "his" offensive system, and should figure out a way how best to utilize the players he has.

 

The Bills haven't had an actual elite top QB since Drew Bledsoe, Jim Kelly, and they haven't had a top line since Kelly. Yet, just about every OC / HC the Bills have had recently thinks they have an elite QB behind center, and can't seem to stop calling passing plays all game.

 

Kyle Orton needs to play QB as a complementary piece in an offense built around the running game. So he can be used primarily as a play-action passer / game manager in the Alex Smith mold, and not put the whole offense on his shoulders. This would have also worked for EJ too, and is the primary way to develop a young QB.

 

I would say the worst problem with the offense is the O line, as they simply are horrible at run blocking for whatever reason, and the OG's are the real weak link. They have great difficulty getting push with their primary block, much less anything past that. Then the offense is just all wrong for the QB's they have. The WR's are all so young and inexperienced, and all are asked to do more then are even ready for just yet. Trading away Stevie Johnson was a huge blunder, and the trade for Mike Williams wasn't very well thought out.

 

The Bills should be running the ball 30-40 times a game, and even running the ball 70% of the time up the middle like they did all last year would really help the offense in just about every aspect. But, WTH do I know, JMHO

[Prickly Pete]

I agree with plenty about this post, but the O-line seems to have been built for protecting EJM for a passing attack. I can understand why they would choose that, because they pretty much hitched their wagon to developing him. Could/should they have focused on O-linemen that were run oriented? Maybe with hindsight...

 

The running game isn't good. The QB isn't good. Which way do you want to die? Plenty of stuffed runs, plenty of incomplete passes. I think they rely on the passing game more because it is the strength of the line, and they have more talent at WR than RB, though the WR's need more experience. Again, they hitched their wagon to the passing game way back in training camp. They bet on EJM, Watkins, Woods, and rolled the dice..

 

 

Trading SJ was, and still is a mystery to me. It didn't need to happen.

Edited December 20, 2014 by HoF Watkins

[Kelly the Dog]

I agree with plenty about this post, but the O-line seems to have been built for protecting EJM for a passing attack. I can understand why they would choose that, because they pretty much hitched their wagon to developing him. Could/should they have focused on O-linemen that were run oriented? Maybe with hindsight...

 

The running game isn't good. The QB isn't good. Which way do you want to die? Plenty of stuffed runs, plenty of incomplete passes. I think they rely on the passing game more because it is the strength of the line, and they have more talent at WR than RB, though the WR's need more experience. Again, they hitched their wagon to the passing game way back in training camp. They bet on EJM, Watkins, Woods, and then rolled the dice.

 

 

Trading SJ was, and still is a mystery to me. It didn't need to happen.

Sure it was. He wasn't going to be worth 6-7 million when he wasn't likely to even start, and they didn't like the way he free lanced patterns. And I liked Stevie. But as soon as Watkins was drafted and was going to be the clear number one, with Woods and Williams already on board, there was no need for Stevie, who couldn't stay healthy either.

[Prickly Pete]

Sure it was. He wasn't going to be worth 6-7 million when he wasn't likely to even start, and they didn't like the way he free lanced patterns. And I liked Stevie. But as soon as Watkins was drafted and was going to be the clear number one, with Woods and Williams already on board, there was no need for Stevie, who couldn't stay healthy either.

 

What's their cap status?

No need to get rid of their only experienced WR. He could have made a difference, and apparently NONE of these guys run good routes. At least he got to the right spot.

[thewildrabbit]

I agree with plenty about this post, but the O-line seems to have been built for protecting EJM for a passing attack. I can understand why they would choose that, because they pretty much hitched their wagon to developing him. Could/should they have focused on O-linemen that were run oriented? Maybe with hindsight...

 

The running game isn't good. The QB isn't good. Which way do you want to die? Plenty of stuffed runs, plenty of incomplete passes. I think they rely on the passing game more because it is the strength of the line, and they have more talent at WR than RB, though the WR's need more experience. Again, they hitched their wagon to the passing game way back in training camp. They bet on EJM, Watkins, Woods, and rolled the dice..

 

 

Trading SJ was, and still is a mystery to me. It didn't need to happen.

Well, that wasn't the way the Bills started the season with the Bills rushing more then they threw against both Chicago 33 rushes vs 22 passes, and Miami 33 rushes vs 26 passes, and both wins.

 

Then for whatever reason Nate Hackett went pass happy against the Chargers with 22 rushes vs 40 passes with EJ. It became even more ridiculous against Houston 23 rushes vs 44 passes. Having EJ throw 44 times with JJ Watt on that Texan defense was playing right into the strength of their defensive pass rush.

[thewildrabbit]

I thought the Denver game was well planned, and they had some nicely designed plays that the players didn't execute well. This actually aggravated me more, because it feels like Hackett put more work into that game plan, and made me think he should have worked as hard EVERY week.

 

I still rank the problems:

 

1- Orton

2- Oline

3- WR's

4- Hackett

5- RB's

Care to reevaluate that order? Just wondering.

[Prickly Pete]

Care to reevaluate that order? Just wondering.

 

Nope. They are right on. When I saw you responded today, I was expecting an apology! I mean really, you wanted them to run the ball MORE this season?

You really believe that running game was gonna carry the team?

Edited December 22, 2014 by HoF Watkins

[thewildrabbit]

Nope. They are right on. When I saw you responded today, I was expecting an apology! I mean really, you wanted them too run the ball MORE this season?

You really believe that running game was gonna carry the team?

In my view the Bills OC should be smart enough to exploit that Raiders 24th ranked run defense. If he isn't smart enough he shouldn't even be calling the offensive plays.

 

I guess we just see things differently. I can't blame the QB as the biggest problem when the Bills OC calls for only 13 run plays all game against the 24th ranked run defense. Then forces him to throw 49 times against the 7th ranked pass defense. That to me is simply the most moronic offensive coaching I've seen in a long while.

 

Then when the Bills run the ball with the very predictable run plays. Clearly stacking the line isn't the way to gain yardage on the ground with these players. How can Spiller do well when Kraig Urbik whiffs on his block and allows the defender to hit Spiller -5 yards behind the line of scrimmage? Antonio Smith ran right thru Urbik's weak attempt at a block...it is almost comical on how bad Urbik is. The run game isn't working well because of the sub par blocking, and lack of good calls in getting the RB's open. Last week the Bills at least ran a few misdirection run plays, fake reverses.

 

My list is O line, Hackett, WR's, Orton, RB's.

[Prickly Pete]

In my view the Bills OC should be smart enough to exploit that Raiders 24th ranked run defense. If he isn't smart enough he shouldn't even be calling the offensive plays.

 

I guess we just see things differently. I can't blame the QB as the biggest problem when the Bills OC calls for only 13 run plays all game against the 24th ranked run defense. Then forces him to throw 49 times against the 7th ranked pass defense. That to me is simply the most moronic offensive coaching I've seen in a long while.

 

Then when the Bills run the ball with the very predictable run plays. Clearly stacking the line isn't the way to gain yardage on the ground with these players. How can Spiller do well when Kraig Urbik whiffs on his block and allows the defender to hit Spiller -5 yards behind the line of scrimmage? Antonio Smith ran right thru Urbik's weak attempt at a block...it is almost comical on how bad Urbik is. The run game isn't working well because of the sub par blocking, and lack of good calls in getting the RB's open. Last week the Bills at least ran a few misdirection run plays, fake reverses.

 

My list is O line, Hackett, WR's, Orton, RB's.

 

Ultimately, there is plenty of blame to go around, offensively. Pretty sure we agree on that

[BackInDaDay]

i'm pretty sure their defense was playing 10 men within 10 yards of the los, with a lone safety who cheated toward watkins. i'm thinking we should have made life uncomfortable for that formation by challenging them with multiple vertical routes.. at least enough to stretch them so we could hit more of our horizontal routes, and widen their LBs to attack the middle of the line.. and if it took keeping a TE and RB in to give Orton time to take more shots.. do it. i dunno.. we shouldn't be this easy to defend.

[FireChan]

i'm pretty sure their defense was playing 10 men within 10 yards of the los, with a lone safety who cheated toward watkins. i'm thinking we should have made life uncomfortable for that formation by challenging them with multiple vertical routes.. at least enough to stretch them so we could hit more of our horizontal routes, and widen their LBs to attack the middle of the line.. and if it took keeping a TE and RB in to give Orton time to take more shots.. do it. i dunno.. we shouldn't be this easy to defend.

 

Khalil Mack was tearing through the line at will.

[BackInDaDay]

Khalil Mack was tearing through the line at will.

yes.. whatever the initial gameplan was to keep him from wrecking the game wasn't working - and when we adjusted to Mack, Tuck became an issue. seems like everything we try to do offensively is executed with the coaches fingers crossed for good luck.

[Prickly Pete]

I don't know. They were moving the ball pretty well early, then Orton started throwing picks, and near picks. Am I wrong? I mean, Mack was a force, but they were making their way around him. They lost the momentum after that bomb TD, and lost their urgency. So another game slowly slips away, a field goal at a time...

 

If I'm going to point at a coach, it's Marrone (not Hackett), because his "close to the vest, we're happy as long as it's close" philosophy seems to shape the player's game-time attitude.

 

Maybe it's not fair to compare them to Tom Brady, but it seems like the competitive QB's go nuts when the other team takes the lead away, at ANY point in the game. It's like it triggers something in them. I never get that feeling from these Bills. It's that sense of urgency that is essential. I don't get it from Marrone, or the offense in general.

Edited December 22, 2014 by HoF Watkins

[thewildrabbit]

yes.. whatever the initial gameplan was to keep him from wrecking the game wasn't working - and when we adjusted to Mack, Tuck became an issue. seems like everything we try to do offensively is executed with the coaches fingers crossed for good luck.

Its almost like this offensive staff doesn't even watch film on the upcoming opponent at times, and doesn't know what to expect. Then doesn't really have the wherewithal to compensate when changes are needed.

 

Probably the best way to explain it is to say go back and watch the Buffalo Bills.com post game show after the Texans game in which they interview WR Mike Williams who had 2 catches for 84 yards, and a TD. Just search "we adjusted a little too late" and listen to what he says.

 

He basically states that the Bills offense went into that game thinking the Texans were going to be in a specific pass defense, and so the Bills game planned against that coverage. Then it wasn't until late in the 3rd quarter until the Bills OC realized the Texans were in a completely different pass coverage, and then made an adjustment.

 

Mike Williams stated that when we get the calls for off coverage, and zone and the opponent in is press man then things tend to not work. Now, you would think that with the Bills OC watching his offense on the field he would recognize what coverage's his offense is playing against after one series and make the proper adjustments.

 

Its not even like the Bills opponent is playing chess, and the Bills OC is playing checkers, as its worse then that. Now think about how much of an island Orton is on in a game when he probably needs to do everything on his own to get anything done.

 

The entire offensive coaching staff should be fired and replaced, and since offense is Doug Marrone's forte. Then think about how he has been "hands on" with the O line the last two years, and its among the worst in the NFL.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

yes.. whatever the initial gameplan was to keep him from wrecking the game wasn't working - and when we adjusted to Mack, Tuck became an issue. seems like everything we try to do offensively is executed with the coaches fingers crossed for good luck.

 

I'll say it again: their strategy on offense is called "hiding under the covers."