YoloinOhio Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) I've noticed that when the backup DTs/Des are in the game, the other team really takes advantage and can run the ball with success. They seem vulnerable and maybe that's a result of Jarius Wynn being hurt. I don't now. I know that the idea was to keep the top guys fresh for the whole season and avoid injuries, and for the most part I can't really disagree with the strategy. But now that we are down to two (extemely important) games, I wonder if it is time to just play Mario-KW-Dareus-Hughes on the majority of any meaningful snaps. It is extremely obvious the difference when Mario is not playing with the run game. Thoughts? Or is this the best way to go - I know the defense is not our biggest concern at the moment. Edited December 16, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) I think rocking the boat at all defensively is the wrong thing to do. Our defense doesn't seem to disappear in the 4th Q and I think the rotation is a big reason why. Edited December 16, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 normal rotations had them out late in the 4th for a key NE drive. im not sure late in the season will make a huge difference. its something ive been curious to hear schwartz talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I've noticed that when the backup DTs/Des are in the game, the other team really takes advantage and can run the ball with success. They seem vulnerable and maybe that's a result of Jarius Wynn being hurt. I don't now. I know that the idea was to keep the top guys fresh for the whole season and avoid injuries, and for the most part I can't really disagree with the strategy. But now that we are down to two (extemely important) games, I wonder if it is time to just play Mario-KW-Dareus-Hughes on the majority of any meaningful snaps. It is extremely obvious the difference when Mario is not playing with the run game. Thoughts? Or is this the best way to go - I know the defense is not our biggest concern at the moment. Lacy was pounding the Bills last Sunday with Bryant and Charles in at DT on the series where he ripped of three straight big gains. They finally put Kyle and Marcell back in after the Packers were deep in Bills' territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 rotation keeps them fresh. I have no issue with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I think rocking the boat at all defensively is the wrong thing to do. Our defense doesn't seem to disappear in the 4th Q and I think the rotation is a big reason why. if the rotation as is costs us points in the first 3, or is still going on deep in the 4th i think its worth thinking about tweaking a bit to "leave it all on the field" these last few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I say keep the rotation and hope that Schwartz can "fit it up" better when the backup DTs are in there. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 rotation keeps them fresh. I have no issue with it scrapping it totally would be silly, but as yolo points out we have less and less to keep them fresh for and as 26 mentions, weve been gashed when they do 2 or 3 guys out at once. if i had to guess, id say we probably see snap counts go up through the end of the year and into the playoffs (if we get there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 if the rotation as is costs us points in the first 3, or is still going on deep in the 4th i think its worth thinking about tweaking a bit to "leave it all on the field" these last few weeks. Yes, but not rotating also costs us points, especially when Mario and co. have been on the field all game and we need a 3rd down stop with 2 minutes to go. I'll trade a possible 20 yard run or two in the third for the defensive starters' ability to make plays in the closing moments of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 It's definitely a trade off. But for the most part the second four have played quite well, and surely helped overall. The way the entirety of the defense has played, both eyeball and stat wise, it's hard to argue with. I think perhaps against the Pats, for the playoffs, you give the backups one less rotation. But I wouldn't mess with it too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I say keep the rotation and hope that Schwartz can "fit it up" better when the backup DTs are in there. GO BILLS!!! i know someone mentioned spikes being out due to the nickel package in addition to marcell and kyle missing due to rotations when lacy was eating our lunch -- perhaps even look at ways to not get those 3 on the sideline at the same time even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 has worked pretty well all season...we play the starters more and they move the ball or give up points we'll complain why mess with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 if it ain't broke, don't fix it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Yes, but not rotating also costs us points, especially when Mario and co. have been on the field all game and we need a 3rd down stop with 2 minutes to go. I'll trade a possible 20 yard run or two in the third for the defensive starters' ability to make plays in the closing moments of the game. just declaring that they will be too tired to make a play late because of an extra series doesnt make it fact. it also doesnt mean there arent other possible ways to rotate guys to minimize the drop off (though it seems schwartz likes all 4 out there together, with occassional mass rests -- less drop off series to series, but more for that single series.... hasnt been a terrible philosophy, but an interesting discussion). last up schwartz has been pulling them deep into the 4th still this season. i think we can agree that its a good time for that to happen less often. has worked pretty well all season...we play the starters more and they move the ball or give up points we'll complain why mess with it? if we are down a score with 5-6 minutes to go against NE would you be ok with pulling starters? that happened the first NE game, and brady scored the TD to seal the win. i believe we had wynn and lawson on the field that drive and no mario or hughes. i expect they will adjust accordingly with the end of the season approaching, like YOLO suggests he would like to see. Edited December 16, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 normal rotations had them out late in the 4th for a key NE drive. im not sure late in the season will make a huge difference. its something ive been curious to hear schwartz talk about. Also against Denver Manning saw the starters were out and ran a hurry up for 4 plays and 60ish yards. I believe the broadcast team even made mention of it during the game. It was earlier in the game but it does change the game if a team decides to run a hurry up every time the DL makes rotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I've noticed that when the backup DTs/Des are in the game, the other team really takes advantage and can run the ball with success. They seem vulnerable and maybe that's a result of Jarius Wynn being hurt. I don't now. I know that the idea was to keep the top guys fresh for the whole season and avoid injuries, and for the most part I can't really disagree with the strategy. But now that we are down to two (extemely important) games, I wonder if it is time to just play Mario-KW-Dareus-Hughes on the majority of any meaningful snaps. It is extremely obvious the difference when Mario is not playing with the run game. Thoughts? Or is this the best way to go - I know the defense is not our biggest concern at the moment. Ive noticed the same thing. Seems like whenever Rodgers saw them in the game he went to the run. Not sure you do much about it though. Just make sure the studs are on the field at key times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 just declaring that they will be too tired to make a play late because of an extra series doesnt make it fact. it also doesnt mean there arent other possible ways to rotate guys to minimize the drop off (though it seems schwartz likes all 4 out there together, with occassional mass rests -- less drop off series to series, but more for that single series.... hasnt been a terrible philosophy, but an interesting discussion). last up schwartz has been pulling them deep into the 4th still this season. i think we can agree that its a good time for that to happen less often. Who said anything about fact? It's a logical assumption. Play less earlier in the game, have more energy late. Are we gonna pretend like that's not valid? All I know is that our defense is playing great. Our defense has been making plays in the 4th Q, when historically, they've collapsed, or watched Brady drive for 4 minutes for a game winning FG. Although, I think we'd rotate less if our offense could sustain drives a little better. IIRC, the rotation is based on snap counts, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) All I know is that our defense is playing great. Our defense has been making plays in the 4th Q, when historically, they've collapsed, or watched Brady drive for 4 minutes for a game winning FG. the irony being that in the NE game we gave up a long drive to put the game out of reach with the starters on the bench resting with 5 minutes to go in the 4th. yea, more energy can be good. on the flip side, an extra series or two might not negatively impact 4Q ability any given game and extra reps can also be more time to beat up the guy across from you, pick up on mistakes hes making etc.... more reps doesnt always equate to worse play. over the course of a season its nice to keep them fresh but at this point i think its fair to run them a little extra with those fresh legs. Edited December 16, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLH 9 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Don't fix something that isn't broke. We would be looking for trouble. Keeping the front in the entire game sets us up for injury and exhaustion. I say Schwartz is smarter than all of us. Let's see what he says! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Who said anything about fact? It's a logical assumption. Play less earlier in the game, have more energy late. Are we gonna pretend like that's not valid? All I know is that our defense is playing great. Our defense has been making plays in the 4th Q, when historically, they've collapsed, or watched Brady drive for 4 minutes for a game winning FG. Although, I think we'd rotate less if our offense could sustain drives a little better. IIRC, the rotation is based on snap counts, no? That's correct. Not unlike pitchers on strict pitch counts. It's something the Bills are committed to, regardless. Hard to argue the overall results in spite of the often little help they get from the offense. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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