May Day 10 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 The Bears fired Lovie Smith after a 10-6 season, and the Chargers fired Marty Schottenheimer after a 14-2 season. Stranger stuff has happened. Like I said, we still need to hear from the Pegula's on how badly they want a winner in Buffalo. I still cant imagine they will just let the status quo remain for the future. This is nearly identical with how the Sabres went down.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 The Bears fired Lovie Smith after a 10-6 season, and the Chargers fired Marty Schottenheimer after a 14-2 season. Stranger stuff has happened. Like I said, we still need to hear from the Pegula's on how badly they want a winner in Buffalo. Great points. People really have watched this games and thought we are winning because of coaching? There's risk in letting Marrone go but I see so much better for this team. The offense is a mess and that's his background. They drafted EJ and benched him for a veteran, who know has a lower QBR than EJ did as a rookie. I won't fire Marrone right away but I'd see if better options were available. This could be a SB team with the right moves.
Coach Tuesday Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Can we please, PLEASE PLEASE, defer this conversation until after the last two games? What if the Bills lose 37-3 to Oakland and 49-0 to New England? What if they somehow win both games? Let's WAIT AND SEE. Season's not over folks.
Kirby Jackson Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 I didn't hear the interview with Russ and Howard, but why is Howard even asking Russ Brandon that question? I thought Russ had absolutely no involvement in the football decisions with the team? If Russ Brandon really is just involved in the marketing side of things, then why are they asking him football related questions? We are kidding ourselves if we think that Russ' power has diminished. The only difference is that he has to go to the Pegula's for approval now. He is not a Ted Black type. He has always deferred football decisions to the football people but I wouldn't be surprised at all of they both (Whaley & Marrone) still report to him (regardless of what we hear). This may change some in the offseason but IMO he won't have too much actual power stripped. His reputation around sports is impeccable and the Pegula's may fear losing him if he is minimized. With that being said I suppose his role could be re diverted some and he be named the president of the Bills and Sabres. It would be similar to the role that Dennis Laucha has in New Orleans.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 17, 2014 Author Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) The Bears fired Lovie Smith after a 10-6 season, and the Chargers fired Marty Schottenheimer after a 14-2 season. Stranger stuff has happened. Like I said, we still need to hear from the Pegula's on how badly they want a winner in Buffalo. Marrone will likely wind up coming back in 2015, but they cannot keep the status quo on the offensive side of the ball with regard to approach, staff, QB, and OL. It's just not working and they need to address it in a significant way in order for this team to realize its goals. Edited December 17, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
jester43 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 I wouldn't read too much into this. To me it just sounds like one Good ole boy sticking up for a buddy of his. That is how these guys get to be good ole boys. You make strong friendships by sticking up for your buddies publicly. That is all I see happening here. Brandon took a moment to strengthen a friendship and try to help his buddy out to keep his job. Even if Marrone gets the ax now, he will know that Brandon had no part in it. Brandon has a lot on the line because he picked Marrone. So what's he gonna say? He wants desperately to keep his hands in football ops so of course he's gonna talk about stuff like "culture change" that no one can disprove. If everyone buys it, that makes him look like a genius.... so then he can keep running around the sidelines at games chest-bumping Sammy Watkins like the frustrated ex-jock that he is.
Kirby Jackson Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Marrone will likely wind up coming back in 2015, but they cannot keep the status quo on the offensive side of the ball with regard to approach, staff, QB and OL. It's just not working and they need to address it in a significant way in order for this team to realize its goals. Perfect post
section122 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 The Bills would be a laughing stock if they fired a coach who took them to 9-7. Yup just on the cusp of gaining back respectability. It would however totally be a Bills move to do lol. The Bills are a laughing stock for missing the playoffs for 15 straight years. This kind of backfires on you. That makes the fact that Marrone has them with a winning record in only his second year all the more impressive. Yes it's true that the Bills have improved and are guaranteed to not have a losing season for the first time in a decade. It's also possible (true, in my opinion) that they are doing this in spite of the head coach. Any success this season is because of the defense - the side of the ball he is hands-off. So if you want to thank/praise anyone for that warm feeling you're having right now, save it for Schwartz and his defensive staff. With a competent coach or a competent QB (just one of those...don't even need both) this team would easily be in the playoffs. I too am a champion of talent means more than coaching. That said your last line contradicts your first 3 if you think a competent coach can get this team over the hump. Improved QB play whether from Orton, EJ, or another will get this team to the playoffs. To me Marrone is 8-6 in spite of the shoddy qb play. You're probably new to this board. But if you got back a few years, I was the biggest homer on this board. I was a giant defender of Jauron, Edwards, Fitz, Gailey, etc. I think we have at worst a top 10 talent team. Spurned lover alert. You're still a homer at heart which is why you think at wrost we have a top 10 talent team. I will give you the defense is phenomenal best we have seen in years. A top 5 unit by most measurements. The offense though? Orton is about the 20th best qb in the league, the line might be bottom 5 in the league, receivers top half but middle tier, rbs middle tier. They are close to a 10 talent level team and their record bears it out. Regardless of playoff standings the Bills currently have the 13th best record in the NFL. On another note being a big defender of Jauron, Edwards, Fitz, Gailey, etc., doesn't that like make you the Buffalo Barbarian of coaches where if you like a guy it's a bad thing? Maybe since you don't like Marrone he is a good coach?
jester43 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 You're probably new to this board. But if you got back a few years, I was the biggest homer on this board. I was a giant defender of Jauron, Edwards, Fitz, Gailey, etc. I think we have at worst a top 10 talent team. A good way to look at MVPs is if an average or below average guy replaced the player, how would the team do? So if Aaron Rodgers got replaced by say Josh McCown, what would be the drop off? I think it would be pretty big right? So using that, what would happen if Marrone got replaced by say Ron Rivera? What would be the drop off? I say nothing if anything. Also, if we replaced Marrone with Sean Payton, what would our record be? I'm forcing myself to accept Marrone will be back. But this has not been a well coached team. Terrible penalties, bad decision making, questionable hires (Hackett). IMO, a lot of guys who have been as successful if not more with this roster. Whaley is the MVP of this team. agreed, and even he has done enough goofy stuff to get canned.1. reach for EJ 2. ...subsequent qb cluster!@#$ 3. overpay for watkins 4. waste a 2nd on venus de kouandjio love all the little diamonds n the rough he's uncovered and the hughes trade was outstanding, but you need to do WAY better with your top picks. or we are going to be locked on a treadmill to nowhere. it is amazing to hear some of you guys talk about 8-6 like we are verge of world domination....but we are way closer to the middle than the top.
QB Bills Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 The problem here is that if all you look at is the record, then of course you'll say that he's doing a good job. They have 8 wins for the first time in ten years. That's just myopic thinking though. I'd like to think most Bills fans are smarter than that. Just because a team wins doesn't mean they are well-coached. Conversely, just because a team loses, doesn't mean that they are poorly coached. Was Barry Switzer a good coach? He won a Super Bowl. Must be better than Marv then, right?
26CornerBlitz Posted December 17, 2014 Author Posted December 17, 2014 The problem here is that if all you look at is the record, then of course you'll say that he's doing a good job. They have 8 wins for the first time in ten years. That's just myopic thinking though. I'd like to think most Bills fans are smarter than that. Just because a team wins doesn't mean they are well-coached. Conversely, just because a team loses, doesn't mean that they are poorly coached. Was Barry Switzer a good coach? He won a Super Bowl. Must be better than Marv then, right? Don't grade school kids drive Ferraris?
BillsVet Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Doug Whaley and the DCs have changed the culture. Does anyone really believe the Bills are 8-6 because of Marrone's amazing coaching? Would there be any difference if Gus Bradley was the coach? Or any other below average coach? Our offense is brutal. We are loaded with talent and our defense wins us games. We benched a 2nd year QB for a 9 year veteran, who has a lower QBR than EJ did as a rookie? How is that good coaching? CB this is an outstanding point. You and I may have had differences in the past, but could not another coach have gained the result this team has produced with another coach such as Gus Bradley? Of course it's hard to measure, but given what we've seen this year, there isn't much in terms of innovation that we've seen from DM. And he has hired some good DC's, but offensively (where it talent supposedly lies) they've not improved and probably regressed. The GM said they planned to be a playoff team in 2014. That was the goal, specifically after the Watkins trade. Why the goal has changed and DM gets credit is beyond me. That is, unless they're in the post-season. We'll see.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Yup just on the cusp of gaining back respectability. It would however totally be a Bills move to do lol. This kind of backfires on you. That makes the fact that Marrone has them with a winning record in only his second year all the more impressive. I too am a champion of talent means more than coaching. That said your last line contradicts your first 3 if you think a competent coach can get this team over the hump. Improved QB play whether from Orton, EJ, or another will get this team to the playoffs. To me Marrone is 8-6 in spite of the shoddy qb play. Spurned lover alert. You're still a homer at heart which is why you think at wrost we have a top 10 talent team. I will give you the defense is phenomenal best we have seen in years. A top 5 unit by most measurements. The offense though? Orton is about the 20th best qb in the league, the line might be bottom 5 in the league, receivers top half but middle tier, rbs middle tier. They are close to a 10 talent level team and their record bears it out. Regardless of playoff standings the Bills currently have the 13th best record in the NFL. On another note being a big defender of Jauron, Edwards, Fitz, Gailey, etc., doesn't that like make you the Buffalo Barbarian of coaches where if you like a guy it's a bad thing? Maybe since you don't like Marrone he is a good coach? Haha, I'm definitely a spurn lover. But to counter: 1) Orton probably isn't top 20. That's why I hated the move. If EJ was starting and progressing (it was 4 games), I'd have Marrone as a coach of the year. But our offense is so pitiful since Orton took over, it didn't justify the move IMO. We wasted a year of EJ developing on a guy who has a worse QBR than EJ had as a rookie. That's a mistake IMO. 2) Our offensive line was a strength under Gailey. We still have 3 of the same starters, and now it is a weakness. also, Marrone benched Urbik for no reason. That's bad coaching. 3) We weren't using Spiller, a career 5 ypc and threat to score every time, correctly before injury. 4) As regards to the barbarian point, that just hurts. Haha. But I think the Gailey and Jauron teams were so less talent than this years. I really don't think our record is any different with them as coaches JMO. In fact, it might be better if we had Gailey working with our offense. IMO, Marrone is closer to Jauron than an elite NFL coach. Basically, the Bills were the fat guy who never had any confidence. Well, we started working out and gaining more confidence. We settled down with a nice, heavy set girl because she liked us when no one else did. But there are much hotter girls who want a piece of us now that we are in shape. We can do so much better than Marrone, IMO.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 17, 2014 Author Posted December 17, 2014 Perfect post Thanks #47. Seems pretty clear to me.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 CB this is an outstanding point. You and I may have had differences in the past, but could not another coach have gained the result this team has produced with another coach such as Gus Bradley? Of course it's hard to measure, but given what we've seen this year, there isn't much in terms of innovation that we've seen from DM. And he has hired some good DC's, but offensively (where it talent supposedly lies) they've not improved and probably regressed. The GM said they planned to be a playoff team in 2014. That was the goal, specifically after the Watkins trade. Why the goal has changed and DM gets credit is beyond me. That is, unless they're in the post-season. We'll see. The fact that you and me are argeeing is both scary and probably means we are correct. The move to Orton was supposed to be one to make the playoffs. Our offense, besides 2 Jets games, scores less than when EJ was the QB. I just don't want to feel like this is good enough.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 The problem here is that if all you look at is the record, then of course you'll say that he's doing a good job. They have 8 wins for the first time in ten years. That's just myopic thinking though. I'd like to think most Bills fans are smarter than that. Just because a team wins doesn't mean they are well-coached. Conversely, just because a team loses, doesn't mean that they are poorly coached. Was Barry Switzer a good coach? He won a Super Bowl. Must be better than Marv then, right? So losing is okay as long as you are doing a great job at it?
34-78-83 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 The WGR hosts, except Sal who has a football background, are like kindergarteners discussing quantum physics. 14 years of no playoffs makes the media think they know something. It's so true.... They ALL (rochester media included now) think they are right about the 4th down calls throughout the year too... They now talk about it like an after thought. They have no idea all the factors that go into those decisions. NO IDEA
jester43 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 That was a very contentious discussion between Howard and Russ with regard to Marrone this morning on WGR. No surprise that Russ has St. Doug's back 100%. 12-17: RUSS BRANDON TALKS ABOUT DOUG MARRONE'S STATUS ON WGR (14:31) OK i heard it...as usual, i see we have a bunch people of crying about nothing when it comes to media members. First of all...it is funny to see whining about Howard Simon's "unprofessional" questions and the "the way" asks them....Howard used to be (rightfully) criticized for lobbing the biggest softballs on the planet. It's only in the last year or two that he even tried to ask an assertive question. Which is what he should do, of course. Someone must have gotten to him and explained it's ok to have an opinion (thankfully). We talk about the whether we need a new coach 365 days a year, but the morning sports talk host can't ask the team president about it? Really? Man, some people just want unicorns and rainbows and that is that. Personally, I would rather see/hear media who have an opinion. All the things Howard Simon mentioned about Marrone are legitimate criticisms. And Russ's reply was to scold him for not having a gushing orgasm over an 8-6 record. Some of the things Brandon praised Marrone for are worthy of it...like the way the coaches handled the blizzard. But a lot of it was a joke. He's really giving Doug Marrone credit for being a great leader because of the burden of stadium renovation? Because training camp was a week longer? If anything, camp was a mess this year, and I would not offer up praise to the head coach for it. Poeple on both sides of the "culture-change" debate have made good points...but the person whose opinion I value least in that whole conversation is suck-ass Russ Brandon. His agenda is obvious: as long as there's any conceivable reason to defend Doug Marrone, he HAS to do it.
hondo in seattle Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Heard something on the radio this morning about good coaches. Can't remember who the interview was (might have been Peter King on Dan Patrick) but basically a good HC is someone who can hire a good staff and people want to work for. Marrone has his issues, but the staff he assembled, especially on defense, is awesome. Get this dude a decent QB and we are right back at the top. I really believe that If a HC can hire a good ST coach, good DC and good OC - and his GM gives him some on-field talent to work with - life is great. Remembering DJ, he had a good DC and a good ST coach. If he had just found an OC, he might still be the HC today. Marrone has a good DC. Crossman's ST units are better this year though I'm still reluctant to call him a good ST coach. OC is still a problem which is worrisome because while Hackett is the de jure OC, I think Marrone is the de facto OC. Nonetheless, I admit that these Bills have fight in them and are the best to wear the Bills colors in years.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 While there is a lot to like and a lot to dislike about Marrone, with the big victory last week, and the way this team is playing right this moment there is good reason and good chance he will stay. He should. Unless we lose to both the Raiders and Pats which I don't predict. That said, there is zero reason to compare Marrone to previous loser Bills coaches. He shouldn't be gauged against them, he should be gauged against the rest of the NFL right now. Our idea of good should not be 8-8 in any stretch of the imagination. 8-8 is decent whether we have had success lately or not. It's not good. When you are discussing being "relative" because it is the Bills you can say it's good. But that is not really good. Before the season, with this roster, most serious fans said we need to make the playoffs for a good season. Whaley said it, Marrone said it. That was the goal. It wasn't the kind of goal that teams that have little chance make. I said it myself. We need to make the playoffs this year. We have a playoff roster. If we fall just short, and look at all the factors, then IMO we can cut Marrone some slack and say that a 9-7 season is just short of our goal and a building block. 8-8 however is a failure. It's stupid to say it's better than we have had in years so it's good. It's not good. Especially with this roster. IMO Marrone needs to stay as of now. If we lose to the Raiders and Pats, I think there is a question as to whether he should. He's not likely to respond well to Pegula or Whaley demanding changes in his staff. Chances are though, that we will beat the Raiders, and Marrone should stay and have another year to improve. If we beat the Pats, it's a no brainer, even if they have nothing to play for. I think they have won their last game six years in a row or something. But Marrone should not be compared to Gailey and Jauron. He should be compared to Mike McCoy and Bruce Arians and Lovie Smith and Gus Bradley, etc.
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