Kelly the Dog Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Marrone is a good motivator. That is probably his best trait. He hired two very good DCs. Neither of those two things can be under-estimated. I posted this in another thread which kind of got lost, but maybe it is better discussed here, because of what Brandon said... That's one thing that Marrone does well. The team plays for him. It's inarguable at this point. That's a huge part of a HC job. A HC has to do about 4-5 things well to be successful. 1. He has to win. With this overall talent, IMO, 8-6 at this point is decent. it's not good, it's not bad. I think it probably should be 9-5 with this roster, even considering the QB. If they end up 10-6, that will be a good record. 9-7 about what it should be. 2. He has to pick good coordinators and assemble a good staff. He gets an A or A+ for Pettine and Schwartz, he gets a C or D in my opinion for Hackett. That's a wash. This is regardless of talent. Some coaches cannot get good talent to perform. Some coaches get inferior talent to overachieve. 3. He has to get the players ready to play, be a good motivator. I think he is pretty good if not very good at this. 4. HC has to make good in game adjustments, decisions, challenges, punt versus go for it, efficient use of time and timeouts, etc. I think he is very average at best in this. 5. He has to succeed at what he does well or is in charge of. For Marrone it's the Offense and the OL. He has been under average at this. Very bad, IMO. And I'm talking regardless of talent. This offense just needs to be mediocre and they are not even mediocre. So for me, he gets a C+ in wins, a B in coordinators, an A as a motivator, a C as an in game manager and a D as doing what he does well. That's not good enough. If we beat the Raiders and Pats, he gets another year for sure. The wins would become a B and the in game decisions and maybe the offense goes up in grades.
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 i believe that he thinks the local media are often not knowledgeable about their questions and comments and doesn't care about massaging that. He reminds me of Bill Polian. Maybe it's a NYC thing. I think the impact of the echo chamber and its complete disconnect from reality is often seen when a reporter, following completely media-fabricated story-line, asks a player or a coach a question about a developing "situation" and the player/coach looks so completely off-guard that it's clear that whatever the media thinks is going on, whatever they're telling us is going on, is often quite divergent from what actually happens.
Fan in Chicago Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Do you honestly think the Pegulas don't know what Brandon is going to say in a situation like this? Seriously? If you do, I've got some sweet land in Florida to sell you. We don't know one way or the other. First of all, there was no 'situation' to which anybody from the FO had to respond to. Hence, Brandon making such a statement is rather weird especially with the timing (why say anythnig before the season is over ?) Be that as it may, you may speculate that the Pegulas blessed his comments before they were uttered in public. I can speculate that this is a political move on Brandon's part to test the upcoming power structure. If he has received a call from Pegulas or Whaley after this went public, then he knows his future is likely very short. If no one responds, he will have strong indication that he will continue to wield influence. Again, as I said total speculation raised by a curiously unprovoked public statement
Kelly the Dog Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Actually, and I meant to post this WAY earlier, hopefully it doesn't get buried here: Chris Brown offered some sterling insight into the whole M.Williams thing. It was on the WGR pregame yesterday. He said in Williams' waning days, Orton approached Hogan and Watkins about when they could schedule some time to come in during off-hours to throw. Williams was standing right there and wasn't even an after thought in the process. Brown indicated that once he witnessed that, that Orton didn't even consider him among the peer group, that he knew Williams' days were numbered. It's also an anecdote that puts to rest that it was Williams v Marrone. Why? Orton probably knew that Williams wasn't going to be in the game plan or maybe not even dressed.
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I agree with Russ. It is noticeable. You can hear the culture change every time one of our defensive players land a crushing hit on someone with the ball. They're playing hungrier than I've ever seen.
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Why? Orton probably knew that Williams wasn't going to be in the game plan or maybe not even dressed. Never really played on sports teams before, did ya?
Kelly the Dog Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Whaley bringing in Brandon Spikes, Corey Graham, and Boobie Dixon on the team, as well as Duke Williams, choosing Aaron Williams over Byrd, has as much to do with the culture change as anything. Never really played on sports teams before, did ya? Yup. I did. Never really consider other possible sides to the story, do ya?
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Trading Kelvin Shepphard for Jerry Hughes was the best straight player-for-player trade in the history of the NFL.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 15, 2014 Author Posted December 15, 2014 Why? Orton probably knew that Williams wasn't going to be in the game plan or maybe not even dressed. I wonder if Orton resented the veteran Mike Williams speaking up to have his own voice as opposed to the rest of the young WR group that is far likelier to listen to him unconditionally. Orton is known for being difficult to get along with.
Casey D Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 We don't know one way or the other. First of all, there was no 'situation' to which anybody from the FO had to respond to. Hence, Brandon making such a statement is rather weird especially with the timing (why say anythnig before the season is over ?) Be that as it may, you may speculate that the Pegulas blessed his comments before they were uttered in public. I can speculate that this is a political move on Brandon's part to test the upcoming power structure. If he has received a call from Pegulas or Whaley after this went public, then he knows his future is likely very short. If no one responds, he will have strong indication that he will continue to wield influence. Again, as I said total speculation raised by a curiously unprovoked public statement I am quite confident this was neither unplanned or unprovoked. This is the Pegulas talking, without saying anything. You can bank on it.
nucci Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Chan Gailey sure changed the culture after beating New England at home in 2011 too. Do you ever say anything good about this organization?
Campy Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Jim Kelly and Polian agree with Russ FWIW Caught a little espn while eating lunch. Polian was on and said: "I think Doug Marrone should get Coach of the Year consideration. People who don't know the Bills don't know about Marrone but that's a name you should get used to because you'll be hearing it for years." For the record, I like Marrone - he seems to have a little bit of that Belichick "FU" in him.
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Whaley bringing in Brandon Spikes, Corey Graham, and Boobie Dixon on the team, as well as Duke Williams, choosing Aaron Williams over Byrd, has as much to do with the culture change as anything. Yup. I did. Never really consider other possible sides to the story, do ya? Okay sure. You're right, it's totally reasonable to assume that the forgotten voice in all of this, Mike Williams', is entirely credible and comes with zero baggage. I wonder if Orton resented the veteran Mike Williams speaking up to have his own voice as opposed to the rest of the young WR group that is far likelier to listen to him unconditionally. Orton is known for being difficult to get along with. Or he just knew that Williams was a lost cause and probably wouldn't have shown up anyways, as was Brown's point. Or we could just continue to subscribe to the possibility that the guy who's in the locker room every day might not know as much as the message board jockeys piecing together what we're told.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 15, 2014 Author Posted December 15, 2014 Okay sure. You're right, it's totally reasonable to assume that the forgotten voice in all of this, Mike Williams', is entirely credible and comes with zero baggage. Or he just knew that Williams was a lost cause and probably wouldn't have shown up anyways, as was Brown's point. Or we could just continue to subscribe to the possibility that the guy who's in the locker room every day might not know as much as the message board jockeys piecing together what we're told. That runs counter to what the other WRs reported about Caveman and his practice habits. Chris Brown putting out the company line? Never!
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 That runs counter to what the other WRs reported about Caveman and his practice habits. Chris Brown putting out the company line? Never! His teammates didn't throw him under the bus to the media!? See, works both ways.
Kirby Jackson Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I think that we are reading a little too deep into this. Marrone certainly has changed the mentality of the players. The playcalling is certainly head scratching. Russ Brandon still (predictably) is a major power broker at OBD.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Okay sure. You're right, it's totally reasonable to assume that the forgotten voice in all of this, Mike Williams', is entirely credible and comes with zero baggage. You either do not read or have zero reading comprehension. You said the anecdote "puts to rest that it was Williams v Marrone." It did nothing of the sort. I suggested another possible scenario. Then you went to lunatic fringe territory, saying I never played organized sports, which had nothing to do with anything, nor is it true by a long shot. Played plenty.
QB Bills Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Marrone's best moves were to hire two good defensive coordinators and stay the hell out of their way. Can someone tell me what he's done to help their offense, which is his specialty? Where is this forward-thinking tactician we were told about? What is it exactly that people like about him? It can't just be that the Bills are 8-6, so that means everything is all hunky dory? I look at him and I see a guy who's completely clueless when it comes to in-game decisions and hurts the team more than he helps. Lucky for him (and the offense) that the defense has bailed him out more often than not.
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 You either do not read or have zero reading comprehension. You said the anecdote "puts to rest that it was Williams v Marrone." It did nothing of the sort. I suggested another possible scenario. Then you went to lunatic fringe territory, saying I never played organized sports, which had nothing to do with anything, nor is it true by a long shot. Played plenty. Great. Thanks. Bye.
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