thewildrabbit Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 Exactly!! If you want to take it a step further you can probably include the Marrone hire here. Obviously leaving Modrak & Guy in power was a mistake but it seems like he learned from that quickly. Buddy Nix stocked and empty cupboard & Whaley has made some shrewd moves & some questionable. I like him for the most part. The same things can be said for Marrone. He has been a good leader & motivator. Marrone's defenses have been great & offenses suspect. He's been pretty good. I believe there isn't anything that has transpired on the team over the last few years that Brandon hasn't had an influence in or on. I have no problem with the Pegula's retaining Brandon, I just think that Brandon needs to stay in the area he does he best in, and that is the financial side. C'mon Kirby, Buddy Nix a 71 year old retied chief scout as GM, and him hiring Chan Gailey was a waste of three years. Hiring Marrone was a waste of one season, and possibly two should the team lose the next two. A 6.2% chance of making the playoffs. Marrone's area of expertise is O line, OC, offense, and yet he has fielded an offense in the ten worst for two years now. Some seriously questionable decisions that I've never seen a seasoned NFL head coach make. Some decisions were corrected, and others were not. The Pettine hire was a good one, and the Schwartz hire was brilliant. Whaley has made some brilliant moves, and some horrendous moves. Whaley, Marrone answering to the marketing, financial guy is just wrong on so many levels. I think an senior NFL adviser or even president off football operations would be a critically more intelligent move then what has transpired the last few years with Brandon running the ship. I just want to see the Bills make the playoffs sometime in the near future, and I doubt that happens with the current status quo.
Kirby Jackson Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) I believe there isn't anything that has transpired on the team over the last few years that Brandon hasn't had an influence in or on. I have no problem with the Pegula's retaining Brandon, I just think that Brandon needs to stay in the area he does he best in, and that is the financial side. C'mon Kirby, Buddy Nix a 71 year old retied chief scout as GM, and him hiring Chan Gailey was a waste of three years. Hiring Marrone was a waste of one season, and possibly two should the team lose the next two. A 6.2% chance of making the playoffs. Marrone's area of expertise is O line, OC, offense, and yet he has fielded an offense in the ten worst for two years now. Some seriously questionable decisions that I've never seen a seasoned NFL head coach make. Some decisions were corrected, and others were not. The Pettine hire was a good one, and the Schwartz hire was brilliant. Whaley has made some brilliant moves, and some horrendous moves. Whaley, Marrone answering to the marketing, financial guy is just wrong on so many levels. I think an senior NFL adviser or even president off football operations would be a critically more intelligent move then what has transpired the last few years with Brandon running the ship. I just want to see the Bills make the playoffs sometime in the near future, and I doubt that happens with the current status quo. A couple of things:1) There is no denying that the talent on the roster improved during Buddy's tenure. It improved substantially. I am not insinuating that he is perfect but he left the team in a better position than he entered (regardless of who we blame for EJ). 2) Whether or not someone is hired on the football side I really don't care. All the I was saying is that the GM & Coach both reporting to a president (or head of football) is a new school approach that is common across sports now. It used to be the coach reports to the GM and he to the owner. Many organizations have changed that for the reasons I mentioned above. 3) In terms of Marrone I'm not sure what to think. I think that I agree with what someone said earlier about him in a "Marv Levy type role." He is a motivator and runs a good program. His offense stinks and he has made some questionable in game calls. He's done a decent job but the team does have lots of talent. Edited December 19, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
May Day 10 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 Tim Graham the other day on his twitter said that brandon still has a lot of control and influence over football matters. Let's say for the sake of argument it's to approve or deny moves.... why is anyone cool with that? That is the Ralph Wilson failed football team structure. Here we are giddy to be "in the hunt" with 2 weeks left. Mission accomplished I guess... Others are saying he isn't involved, other than choosing the gm, coaches, most important people in the football side. I'm not cool with that either. Brandon is a marketing intern from the Marlins who happened to gain influence in the bills organization while Mr wilson aged and health declined. I don't even want his rubber stamp on anything football related. What magic skills or knowledge does this guy possess that only the thought of losing him would set the bills back ages? I'm not sure he is even a great pr guy. I hear him on the radio and he sounds adversarial to the fans. Regionalization? What has he done that any marketing grad couldn't figure out?
Kirby Jackson Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) Tim Graham the other day on his twitter said that brandon still has a lot of control and influence over football matters. Let's say for the sake of argument it's to approve or deny moves.... why is anyone cool with that? That is the Ralph Wilson failed football team structure. Here we are giddy to be "in the hunt" with 2 weeks left. Mission accomplished I guess... Others are saying he isn't involved, other than choosing the gm, coaches, most important people in the football side. I'm not cool with that either. Brandon is a marketing intern from the Marlins who happened to gain influence in the bills organization while Mr wilson aged and health declined. I don't even want his rubber stamp on anything football related. What magic skills or knowledge does this guy possess that only the thought of losing him would set the bills back ages? I'm not sure he is even a great pr guy. I hear him on the radio and he sounds adversarial to the fans. Regionalization? What has he done that any marketing grad couldn't figure out? With all due respect it sounds like you have no real understanding of what his job actually is. It's tough to make an argument as to whether or not someone is good or bad at their job unless you know what it entails. The post above is like criticizing a punter for not being a good offensive guard. Anyone that wants to complain about the punter being a bad punter shouldn't make an a case by talking about how he struggles to move the pile in short yardage. Edited December 19, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
May Day 10 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 You said yourself he is influential in choosing the football personnel.
thewildrabbit Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 With all due respect it sounds like you have no real understanding of what his job actually is. It's tough to make an argument as to whether or not someone is good or bad at their job unless you know what it entails. The post above is like criticizing a punter for not being a good offensive guard. Anyone that wants to complain about the punter being a bad punter shouldn't make an a case by talking about how he struggles to move the pile in short yardage. I think that is, and has been a really big issue with this team over the last decade in there is no real transparency at the top. Smoke and mirrors with nobody to really blame for all the losing seasons. I don't know about anyone else, but I know I don't want the football HC, and GM to continue to report to the marketing, financial guy. Why would they report to him at all if he has no say in anything they do? Man, I hope the new owners have a clue about running the football operations side of the team they just paid 1.4 billion for, and allowing things to stay exactly the same this year as last doesn't sound like it.
K-9 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 I think that is, and has been a really big issue with this team over the last decade in there is no real transparency at the top. Smoke and mirrors with nobody to really blame for all the losing seasons. I don't know about anyone else, but I know I don't want the football HC, and GM to continue to report to the marketing, financial guy. Why would they report to him at all if he has no say in anything they do? Man, I hope the new owners have a clue about running the football operations side of the team they just paid 1.4 billion for, and allowing things to stay exactly the same this year as last doesn't sound like it. Nobody to really blame? Really? It's an organizational failure so the organization gets the blame. What you really mean to say is that there has to be a single person to tar and feather because to make it an organizational failure means you have to cast some blame even on those you choose to like within the organization. To your point about the Pegulas continuing to let the status quo operate since they assumed ownership, what would you have had them do at that point? They took control more than halfway through a league year and more than a quarter through the season. There's something to be said for continuity at that juncture, especially when there was (and continues to be) a chance for a successful season. Firing Brandon, Marrone, Hackett, and anybody else you don't like, wasn't going to land a competent QB or tilt the season towards success. Quite the contrary. Had Pegula completely blown things up upon arrival, there's a good chance these last two games already don't mean a damned thing. Russ Brandon will not be in charge of the football operations side moving forward. Regardless of your disdain for him, he brings a level of expertise and success to the operation and the Pegulas are smart to continue to leverage that expertise. GO BILLS!!!
CardinalScotts Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 Would be interested to see how "Bad" the playcalling is with a Better QB. or better o line
BADOLBILZ Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 With all due respect it sounds like you have no real understanding of what his job actually is. It's tough to make an argument as to whether or not someone is good or bad at their job unless you know what it entails. The post above is like criticizing a punter for not being a good offensive guard. Anyone that wants to complain about the punter being a bad punter shouldn't make an a case by talking about how he struggles to move the pile in short yardage. What did May Day say exactly that made you break out the "way too far above a fans head to understand"? Russ is what he is. Example: the night before the announcement of the cancellation of the Toronto series he got cocked and let the cat out of the bag at the bar and was overheard and then was pissed at WGR for running the story at 5am because he wanted to break the news on his show that morning and get the credit. Skeevy. Russ was liking being the face of the franchise. He's not the worst but he certainly has had too much authority/influence on the football side. Oh and he lies relentlessly which is kinda' irritating in the context of the teams failures during the decade which he has had considerable influence. The org chart was altered according to reports: http://www.cbssports...ills-transition "Under the new structure Kim Pegula will serve as the team's CEO, sources said, with Brandon serving as team president but with general manager Doug Whaley expected to be no longer reporting to Brandon but instead directly to the Pegulas, thus drawing more delineation between football operations and the business operation." As it should be. They are wise to get him clear of influencing football decisions. AT ALL. Next step is to get him to realize his football opinion should be kept to himself. Back to the marketing side. Start untarnishing the brand.
K-9 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 ... Russ is what he is. Example: the night before the announcement of the cancellation of the Toronto series he got cocked and let the cat out of the bag at the bar and was overheard and then was pissed at WGR for running the story at 5am because he wanted to break the news on his show that morning and get the credit. ... Credit for what, exactly? GO BILLS!!!
May Day 10 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 I just want someone from the outside brought in who has experience with a winning program to properly structure and delegate and re-staff if needed. Marrone stays under that condition its cool Brandon stays he stays. I hope the pegulas do get him away from microphones though. As a fan and a sth I don't appreciate the rhetoric downgrading sellouts as "manufactured" and pointing to games 25 years ago and not a decade and a half losing streak as justification for outsourcing games. Also didn't appreciate the no stone unturned all for winning speech followed by signing another toronto deal a month laterm which arguably cost being "in the hunt" Last season too.
Kirby Jackson Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) What did May Day say exactly that made you break out the "way too far above a fans head to understand"? Russ is what he is. Example: the night before the announcement of the cancellation of the Toronto series he got cocked and let the cat out of the bag at the bar and was overheard and then was pissed at WGR for running the story at 5am because he wanted to break the news on his show that morning and get the credit. Skeevy. Russ was liking being the face of the franchise. He's not the worst but he certainly has had too much authority/influence on the football side. Oh and he lies relentlessly which is kinda' irritating in the context of the teams failures during the decade which he has had considerable influence. As it should be. They are wise to get him clear of influencing football decisions. AT ALL. Next step is to get him to realize his football opinion should be kept to himself. Back to the marketing side. Start untarnishing the brand. I think that it was the marketing intern part. I take offense to that as someone that has worked really hard to get nowhere close to the level that RB is at. I have a master's degree in sports business and gave 60+ hours a week for 8 years to get to middle management. It's like saying why not have a med student be the chief surgeon at Johns Hopkins? My old boss was the most talented business person that I have ever met and he came from the food industry. David Stern offered him the presidency of 4 different teams if he wanted it (yes, Stern had that kind of power). Ultimately he took a job in the NHL but this is someone that may have never been to a hockey game before his first game on the job (and I'm serious about this). The job really has little to do with hockey and A LOT to do with managing ownership, GM, coaches, 150 person staff, 30 professional athletes and a budget that is in the hundreds of millions. It just isn't a job that any marketing intern could handle. I'm not trying to be too sensitive but it's a little insulting. I know little about his character. All that I am talking about is the job that he is asked to do. It isn't easy. Edited December 19, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
QB Bills Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 With all due respect it sounds like you have no real understanding of what his job actually is. It's tough to make an argument as to whether or not someone is good or bad at their job unless you know what it entails. The post above is like criticizing a punter for not being a good offensive guard. Anyone that wants to complain about the punter being a bad punter shouldn't make an a case by talking about how he struggles to move the pile in short yardage. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what his job is then? And how is he a marketing genius? Any specific examples of this? Don't give this used-car salesman credit for selling "inventory" when he had nothing to do with it.
May Day 10 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 I worked in pro sports for more than a decade, including the nfl. I have a degree in sports business too. I moved into construction management for money, hours, and i just wanted to be a fan again.
K-9 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what his job is then? And how is he a marketing genius? Any specific examples of this? Don't give this used-car salesman credit for selling "inventory" when he had nothing to do with it. The single biggest impact Brandon had on the Bills' bottom line and what earned high praise and trust from the Detroit office was generating, sustaining ,and maintaining huge growth in sponsorship revenues, including the sale of the new luxury suites upon his hire in '98. It could be argued that he brought the organization into the 21st century in that regard. And while it's easy to say any marketing intern could do that (I think that's ludicrous, btw), the fact remains it was Brandon that did it and that led to his ascension within the organization. And let's not act like the regionalization of the franchise just occurred by osmosis. It took a coherent, targeted marketing plan to achieve that growth. Especially against the backdrop of a losing franchise. GO BILLS!!!
Kirby Jackson Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) I worked in pro sports for more than a decade, including the nfl. I have a degree in sports business too. I moved into construction management for money, hours, and i just wanted to be a fan again. No hard feelings. They just asked what I took offense to. I'm not going to go all NDBUFCUSEFAN (or whatever that guy's name was). The point that I was trying to make is 90% of their job we are never exposed to and probably 70%+ someone at my level wouldn't be exposed to and 50%+ his direct reports would never even know happened. They are in charge of people from interns, to IVY league execs, to head coaches to star players and owners. It's a wide, wide range of egos, pay grades, personalities and demands. Edited December 19, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
May Day 10 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 Brandon's crowning achievement imo was moving the camp to sjf and making it into a real fan attraction. They were about the first to do it as I recall
K-9 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 Brandon's crowning achievement imo was moving the camp to sjf and making it into a real fan attraction. They were about the first to do it as I recall That's his minor league baseball marketing coming to the fore. At that level, you have to sell fan experiences even more than the games. I think it's served him well over the years. GO BILLS!!!
YoloinOhio Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 Brandon's crowning achievement imo was moving the camp to sjf and making it into a real fan attraction. They were about the first to do it as I recall the Browns are moving their TC to Columbus this year. It has always been right at their facility. Their fans aren't happy. I think it is brilliant.
BillsVet Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 If Russ Brandon is out of the football side of the house, why is he actively campaigning for Whaley and Marrone? Russ' job is apparently safe, yet he's been very vocal both on radio, television, and in print defending these guys and saying they need more time. And that was before his "change the culture" narrative was put out there. And it doesn't appear he's seeking other opportunities, so it stands to reason his marketing campaign for the HC and GM is designed to improve his standing, which no longer includes football.
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