Russ Brandon: "Marrone Has Changed the Bills' Culture"

[Fadingpain]

It boggles my mind that more people don't see it like this. All you keep reading is "but we're 8-6". Correlation does not imply causation.

 

I've mentioned in the past that I'd like someone to provide one concrete example of smart coaching by him. Have you ever even once thought "wow...clever tactic there, coach"? The guy's idiotic use of timeouts at the end of halves has me screaming at the tv almost weekly.

 

As I posted previously, we have done a lot of winning this year despite the coach; little has come as a direct result of his clever in-game thinking.

 

Also, posters here should not confuse a really, really talented defensive corp and a solid DC with Doug Marrone's competence as head coach.

 

As you state, correlation does not imply causation. Good luck teaching that concept to a whole lot of posters around here.

 

LOL.

[The Big Cat]

That ain't gonna happen. Marrone is not going to get rid of Hackett, even if ordered to. It's Marrone's offense. He decides the game plan and who plays. If Whaley went to Marrone and said you need to get rid of the OC, there will be a huge showdown, like the Cowher and Donohoe fight, and IMO Whaley would win and Marrone would pull a Mularkey or Wade and quit.

 

 

I think Marrone did change the culture here. He really gets the team motivated. But it's not one guy. Last years team gave up a few times. The game at the end of the season in Tampa was atrocious. A HUGE part of the culture change was Brandon Spikes, Corey Graham, and Boobie Dixon who all brought enormous leadership from winning programs here. They helped toughen the team, transform the locker room and made the ST dominant. That was Whaley not Marrone. Orton helped change the culture a lot, to his credit.

 

Last year's Tampa game--and it's not even close--was Marrone's biggest black eye as a coach.

[section122]

Seattle's offense has really struggled. They don't have a vertical passing game. Harbaugh's as well - major regression this year. I know the Bills have talent on defense, but I don't see the "talented roster" on offense at all. Their most talented player is a rookie. They don't have a QB. The best RB was out 7 weeks. I'm not surprised the offense isn't great. The plays are there, they players don't make them because they aren't good enough. I know most don't agree, but while the OC hasn't been perfect he certainly has designed plays that would work if the execution was there. Since no one knows the whole story with Mike Williams or Urbik, I have a hard time just assuming that is a fireable offense for the HC because they weren't/aren't playing.

 

Well put here. THe talent on the offense is being vastly over rated.

 

New England did not make the playoffs in 2008 with Matt Cassel substituting for the injured Brady for essentially the entire season. That year the Pats went 11-5 (not 10-6) and did not win the division. It's the last time they missed the playoffs and I don't recall anyone making excuses for them.

 

Quibbling over what the standard is doesn't change the 2014 season's goal of reaching the playoffs. That may seem harsh in the PC world, but I really don't care. We were told all off-season how the talent had improved (not easily quantifiable) in 2013. Now this year it's Marrone has changed the culture, another unquantifiable concept that some are taking hook line and sinker. Your record is what you are.

 

You can't be seriously comparing the 2008 Patriots with the 2014 Buffalo Bills. The year before Cassel led the team to 11-5 Brady led the same exact team to 16-0. Plenty of excuse making was done at the time and still to this day (you even did it by saying Cassell was in for Brady). The 2008 Pats* had won the super bowl 3 times in the last 7 years!

 

If you are what your record says you are then this is the best Bills team in 10 years. You were told all off season how the talent improved and look they are 2 games better with 2 games to go. Your post makes no sense.

 

The "playoffs or else" thing is starting to irritate me a little. If they are 10-6 and miss the playoffs the year is still a success IMO. If you have the same record as a playoff team in your conference you did what you needed to do. If "you are what your record says you are" than you are a 10-6 team just like a Baltimore for example. If the tiebreaker was out of conference opponents instead of common opponents the Bills would be there instead (at least I think). The goal was to put yourself in position to be a playoff team (which they haven't yet done) and then the chips fall where they may. It's like Arizona last year.

 

Now, if they lose 1 or 2 of these games they will not quite be there. They will finish a game or 2 out (not a tiebreaker out). That's not good enough but not a total failure either. They will look to KC and Houston and wonder what might have been.

 

Either was this team is absolutely heading in the right direction.

 

Yes yes yes. So why does anyone want to replace the captain of the ship?!?!

 

I agree with most all of that. Especially the last line. If we lose to the Raiders and Pats, then that last line loses most of its luster.

 

I never said "playoffs or else" and I don't think very many have. If we finish 9-7 and miss the playoffs I think most fans think he should stay. I do. But that doesn't mean he has done a terrific job. It could mean he has under-achieved, not over achieved. The season isn't over. This week we need to win or last week means nothing. I expect us to win. 9-7 he gets to keep his job.

 

Many have it is why I want to pull my hair out.

 

The second bolded is why I like Marrone so much. I bet he feels the same exact way.

 

I'm with you KTD. If they finish 8-8, 9-7 or 10-6 I still believe NH has to go. The offense is broken.

 

So there is no way for Hackett to save his job in your opinion? I used to think it was Hackett too but as I have been watching I see plays that are there to be made. That speaks to a quality coordinator. I see turnovers in the redzone taking points off the board (2 in the minnesota game, the brown fumble in the chiefs game come to mind). I see missed opportunities. If there were no opportunities I would be on board with replacing him.

[K-9]

Last year's Tampa game--and it's not even close--was Marrone's biggest black eye as a coach.

 

It's also the game that got Ike Hilliard fired.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[section122]

Last year's Tampa game--and it's not even close--was Marrone's biggest black eye as a coach.

 

Agreed. The wind was out of the sails of the team after the Toronto loss to the Falcons. One of the only times I can remember since he took over that the team looked out of sorts.

 

It's also the game that got Ike Hilliard fired.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

? I hadn't heard that before. More details please!

[K-9]

... ? I hadn't heard that before. More details please!

 

When it came to the tape review of that game the next day, Marrone nearly had a stroke ranting at the play of the WRs. They literally didn't attempt to go through the play motions in several instances. Just stood up at the snap of the ball and barely jogged on some plays. It was obvious. Hilliard had on several occasions before that game pointed the finger at Manuel as the reason his receivers didn't perform well in various games. But that has nothing to do with a player's responsibility to carry out assignments on each play and it caught up to him in the Tampa game.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[The Big Cat]

When it came to the tape review of that game the next day, Marrone nearly had a stroke ranting at the play of the WRs. They literally didn't attempt to go through the play motions in several instances. Just stood up at the snap of the ball and barely jogged on some plays. It was obvious. Hilliard had on several occasions before that game pointed the finger at Manuel as the reason his receivers didn't perform well in various games. But that has nothing to do with a player's responsibility to carry out assignments on each play and it caught up to him in the Tampa game.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Ah yes. That **** was...weird. I do remember those several plays when they just kinda trotted off the line and stopped, did nothing, waited for the whistle to blow.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

So there is no way for Hackett to save his job in your opinion? I used to think it was Hackett too but as I have been watching I see plays that are there to be made. That speaks to a quality coordinator. I see turnovers in the redzone taking points off the board (2 in the minnesota game, the brown fumble in the chiefs game come to mind). I see missed opportunities. If there were no opportunities I would be on board with replacing him.

The scheme, personnel groupings and overall lack of creativity is a huge issue to me. There's a big thread on it out there already so I don't want to beat a dead horse. I think that the whole design is broken and could seriously be upgraded. There certainly needs to be a talent upgrade as well but it doesn't have to be one or the other.

[C.Biscuit97]

Well put here. THe talent on the offense is being vastly over rated.

 

 

 

You can't be seriously comparing the 2008 Patriots with the 2014 Buffalo Bills. The year before Cassel led the team to 11-5 Brady led the same exact team to 16-0. Plenty of excuse making was done at the time and still to this day (you even did it by saying Cassell was in for Brady). The 2008 Pats* had won the super bowl 3 times in the last 7 years!

 

If you are what your record says you are then this is the best Bills team in 10 years. You were told all off season how the talent improved and look they are 2 games better with 2 games to go. Your post makes no sense.

 

 

 

Yes yes yes. So why does anyone want to replace the captain of the ship?!?!

 

 

 

Many have it is why I want to pull my hair out.

 

The second bolded is why I like Marrone so much. I bet he feels the same exact way.

 

 

 

So there is no way for Hackett to save his job in your opinion? I used to think it was Hackett too but as I have been watching I see plays that are there to be made. That speaks to a quality coordinator. I see turnovers in the redzone taking points off the board (2 in the minnesota game, the brown fumble in the chiefs game come to mind). I see missed opportunities. If there were no opportunities I would be on board with replacing him.

 

I would argue that our starting receivers and running backs as groups were top 10 at the beginning of the season. I've had "experts" here tell me Bryce Brown was better than Spiller.

 

And again, we had 3 out of 5 starting olinemen from when we averaged 5 ypc rushing as a team. That's some serious talent.

[jester43]

The problem with this whole thread is that Russ Brandon defending Marrone by saying he "changed the culture" is a straw man argument. And how convenient that, win or lose, Russ now cites a "changed culture" and a need for "continuity" since his football ops ass is on the line with Marrone. When the season started it was "playoffs or bust." Now it's "culture and continuity." DOES ANYONE ELSE SMELL THE BULLSCHIDT?

 

You know he does not just want to be a marketer for the Bills. He wants more chest bumps with Sammy on game day and more fist pumping in the war room on draft day. That's his real agenda.

 

The real question is, has Marrone done enough to be retained? Most of us think we know, but I'd say pretty much everyone wants to see the last 2 games before deciding. In the meantime, I've seen plenty of decisions from the dark ages, and barring a stirring win in New England, I'd say the Bills can and should try to do better.

 

The problem is, we've seen so much garbage in the last 15 years that 8-6 makes it look like St. Doug really is roaming the sidelines.

 

And Russ, whose culture did he change, exactly? I remember when you were the GM...that was some culture we had then, wasn't it?

 

Brandon the football guy is the problem and a snake in the grass. When he talks "culture" he's politicking for his own ass. Is that not obvious?

 

Just stick to selling tickets Russ. You did a great job finding 30000 Green Bay fans to sell the game out last weekend.

Edited December 17, 2014 by jester43

[section122]

When it came to the tape review of that game the next day, Marrone nearly had a stroke ranting at the play of the WRs. They literally didn't attempt to go through the play motions in several instances. Just stood up at the snap of the ball and barely jogged on some plays. It was obvious. Hilliard had on several occasions before that game pointed the finger at Manuel as the reason his receivers didn't perform well in various games. But that has nothing to do with a player's responsibility to carry out assignments on each play and it caught up to him in the Tampa game.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Wow.

 

The scheme, personnel groupings and overall lack of creativity is a huge issue to me. There's a big thread on it out there already so I don't want to beat a dead horse. I think that the whole design is broken and could seriously be upgraded. There certainly needs to be a talent upgrade as well but it doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

Fair enough. I would prefer to see a talent upgrade first as I wonder if it would allow/lead to more creativity. I just feel that the offensive coaching staff is a bit hamstrung by the (lack of) talent on the offensive side of the ball.

 

I would argue that our starting receivers and running backs as groups were top 10 at the beginning of the season. I've had "experts" here tell me Bryce Brown was better than Spiller.

 

And again, we had 3 out of 5 starting olinemen from when we averaged 5 ypc rushing as a team. That's some serious talent.

 

Maybe receivers but they were very young and wr is traditionally a position that takes 3 years to really break out and our top 2 are a rookie and second year guy. RB I disagree. The best part about it was depth but a 33 year old Freddie and CJ are not as good to me as a backfield that sports a top back regardless of who is behind them so Dallas, Chicago, KC, Philly, etc all rank ahead of Buffalo for me simply because of what 1 guy can do.

 

I don't think the offense is barren of talent I just see it as middle of the road talent and therefore am not surprised by middle of the road production. The defense has top talent and therefore I am not surprised it has top level production.

Edited December 17, 2014 by section122

[K-9]

The scheme, personnel groupings and overall lack of creativity is a huge issue to me. There's a big thread on it out there already so I don't want to beat a dead horse. I think that the whole design is broken and could seriously be upgraded. There certainly needs to be a talent upgrade as well but it doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

If the whole design was broken, wouldn't we see far less to the contrary on tape reviews? It's uncanny how many open guys we have running routes at any given time, regardless of the personnel group on the field. That speaks to good play design, not a broken one.

 

If I have one beef with Hackett/Marrone it's the playcalling at certain times in certain game situations. But even then, most of tht time, when I go back to review it, it's plain to see what they called had a great chance of working against the defense they called it against.

 

IMHO, it's the age-old question of poor execution more than anything. I know that's a hackneyed expression, but it fits none the less.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[26CornerBlitz]

Serious question for me is can anyone envision Marrone leading the Bills to a Super Bowl win against a high caliber counterpart?

Edited December 17, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[QB Bills]

The problem with this whole thread is that Russ Brandon defending Marrone by saying he "changed the culture" is a straw man argument. And how convenient that, win or lose, Russ now cites a "changed culture" and a need for "continuity" since his football ops ass is on the line with Marrone.

 

You know he does not just want to be a marketer for the Bills. He wants more chest bumps with Sammy on game day and more fist pumping in the war room on draft day. That's his real agenda.

 

The real question is, has Marrone done enough to be retained? Most of us think we know, but I'd say pretty much everyone wants to see the last 2 games before deciding. In the meantime, I've seen plenty of decisions from the dark ages, and barring a stirring win in New England, I'd say the Bills can and should try to do better.

 

The problem is, we've seen so much garbage in the last 15 years that 8-6 makes it look like St. Doug really is roaming the sidelines.

 

And Russ, whose culture did he change, exactly? I remember when you were the GM...that was some culture we had then, wasn't it?

 

Brandon the football guy is the problem and a snake in the grass. When he talks "culture" he's politicking for his own ass. Is that not obvious?

 

Just stick to selling tickets Russ. You did a great job finding 30000 Green Bay fans to sell the game out last weekend.

Great post.

 

Russ Brandon is a real-life Lyle Lanley.

[C.Biscuit97]

Serious question for me is can anyone envision Marrone leading the Bills to a Super Bowl win against a high caliber counterpart?

 

Or hi mand Gus Bradly switch teams? Is Jacksonville not challenging for #1 overall? And is Gus Bradley not have the same exact record (if not better) here?

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

As I posted previously, we have done a lot of winning this year despite the coach; little has come as a direct result of his clever in-game thinking.

 

Also, posters here should not confuse a really, really talented defensive corp and a solid DC with Doug Marrone's competence as head coach.

 

As you state, correlation does not imply causation. Good luck teaching that concept to a whole lot of posters around here.

 

LOL.

I understand the concept. Why do you think he has little to do with the team winning? He is the Head coach. He has control over game plans of all 3 units. He has major role in the personnel. He hired the asst coaches. You can LOL all you want. I'm not sure you realize that while a fan message board or twitter thinks that his decision to punt, or when he calls a time out, or other situational decisions are fireable offenses, a FO is able to see a much more complex picture of the the role he has. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but you are laughing at people who simply see things differently than you. Edited December 17, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[C.Biscuit97]

Wow.

 

 

 

Fair enough. I would prefer to see a talent upgrade first as I wonder if it would allow/lead to more creativity. I just feel that the offensive coaching staff is a bit hamstrung by the (lack of) talent on the offensive side of the ball.

 

And that's the whole Gailey point. We had less talent then ( a bunch of UDFA receivers, Chandler was a nobody) and he produced. It's easy to design gameplans with Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. Good coaches can make Mark Sanchez look like a starting NFL QB.

 

IMO, too many offensive players have regressed (Glenn, Wood, Pears, Spiller, etc.). good coaches bring the best out of their players. Our defensive coaches have. Our offensive coaches have not.

 

I understand the concept. Why do you think he has little to do with the team winning? He is the Head coach. He has control over game plans of all 3 units. He has major role in the personnel. He hired the asst coaches.

 

I could be wrong but I think Schwartz has the coaches he wants in mind and then gets the final say so in hiring from Marrone. I think Marrone has very little input on the defense. For instance, Sean Payton focuses on offense.

[section122]

Serious question for me is can anyone envision Marrone leading the Bills to a Super Bowl win against a high caliber counterpart?

 

Well he did just defeat the team that was declared by many as the best in the NFL. Certainly one of if not the NFC favorite so yes of course I could.

 

You did this last week asking for a signature win. This was his signature win. Last year with a 6-10 team the Bills beat the defending SB champs.

[QB Bills]

I sometimes, if not often question his use of timeouts. But his calling timeouts with about 5 minutes left in the Denver game IIRC was very, very smart. I was thrilled with him for that. Coaches should do that WAY more, especially when down two scores, and most don't. That was terrific coaching by Marrone. Overall, his timeout calling has left a lot to be desired. It's a very hard job though, and you can get better at it with experience.

Sorry KtD, but if you think that was terrific coaching, then I think your standards are way too low. Using timeouts there was a no-brainer that I don't think even he could have screwed that up.

 

I'm referring to the times where there's a minute left on the clock at the end of the first half, and the other team is punting deep from their own side of the field and the clock is running down while he stands there looking completely clueless holding onto three timeouts.

 

I'm referring to him gifting the Patriots three points at the end of the first half earlier this year when they had no timeouts and could only throw to the end zone or a quick out to the sidelines.

 

These simple mistakes don't always seem like much but they add up. The worst part is that they are black and white decisions that are just not handled correctly because of nothing other than incompetence.

 

This kind of stuff happens way too often. This is what I mean when I say they are winning in spite of him.

[jester43]

Serious question for me is can anyone envision Marrone leading the Bills to a Super Bowl win against a high caliber counterpart?

if they were creative enough on offense to make orton look competent (which I believe is possible) and kept playing the kind of defense we've seen this month, then yes, actually.

 

but the lack of creativity I blame on Marrone. When I saw how the vaunted combo of Jay Gruden and Colt McCoy completely befuddled the Dallas defense i realized how bad our offensive coaching is.