OCinBuffalo Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Thanks for putting it as you did. I think it accurately reflects the situation. The naive, the ignorant, the farmers, the jboyst's, the majority, the 99%... whatever anyone would call my classification/group/population is large. We know enough to know 2007 was a goof up and look back on the 90's when things were better. We look back and see what was done under Reagan and Clinton and then what was done under Bush and Obama. We know it will happen again because it happened to our parents and it happened to our grandparents. We're the working class that this keeps happening to ruin. We are more enlightened now with information readily available 24/7 and more voices and channels/sites/sources for them then ever. Eventually, we're going to start listening to one voice or two and that is going to be the first one we start seeing making a difference. If Wall Street thinks it is making a difference by telling us that Bank of America needs more money, more of my money already invested which they're charging me ridiculous fees for so that some guy can sit in an office and earn millions for ruining his company and then politicians back that decision - we will turn on that politician. It happened in the last election and the election before that. Eventually what must happen is something that many people are crying for: a third party. That or simply remove the politics from business. This is a free market capitalism. Let it be free and get the government out of it. If cheating and stealing occurs let the individual pay for it and don't make the entire industry at fault and then pass regulation to fix it. It's too late. See, it's also about tactics. I understand Wall Steet holding off the batshit Ds by paying the rational Ds off. That was a good tactic...7 years ago. Now? It's time to move on from that, and for them to fix their own problems themselves. They have the opportunity with an R Congress to reassure you that they are responsible adults, not petulant children. Libertarians have been in full support of holding individuals responsibe, in civil, not crminal court, for years. The only thing Wall Street types truly fear is destitution. F regulation. Guys like me get hired to circumvent regulation all the time. We typically have work-arounds in place before the regulation ink dries. IF Wall Street types want to gamble with our economy, then lets go the whole way: they have to pay out personally when they lose, make everybody that they hurt whole, and they get to be homeless. When poverty is the punishment? You'll see change on Wall Street. EDIT: And, how is giving more power to DC to control Wall Street, supposed to fix the problems that were caused by DC selling influence to Wall Street? This is circular reasoning at it's finest. Edited December 16, 2014 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 See, it's also about tactics. I understand Wall Steet holding off the batshit Ds by paying the rational Ds off. That was a good tactic...7 years ago. Now? It's time to move on from that, and for them to fix their own problems themselves. They have the opportunity with an R Congress to reassure you that they are responsible adults, not petulant children. Libertarians have been in full support of holding individuals responsibe, in civil, not crminal court, for years. The only thing Wall Street types truly fear is destitution. F regulation. Guys like me get hired to circumvent regulation all the time. We typically have work-arounds in place before the regulation ink dries. IF Wall Street types want to gamble with our economy, then lets go the whole way: they have to pay out personally when they lose, make everybody that they hurt whole, and they get to be homeless. When poverty is the punishment? You'll see change on Wall Street. EDIT: And, how is giving more power to DC to control Wall Street, supposed to fix the problems that were caused by DC selling influence to Wall Street? This is circular reasoning at it's finest. The system works right now because it is simply wash, rinse repeat. When the washer breaks you simply call on the Maytag man to come out there and write up a new method of washing. He does not fix anything, just tells you its not broke and then calls it a day. Wall Street getting someone to champion of the actual investor is long overdue. I don't know if Warren is going to take up that position but it looks like she's trying. She has a better chance then a Republican, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) The system works right now because it is simply wash, rinse repeat. When the washer breaks you simply call on the Maytag man to come out there and write up a new method of washing. He does not fix anything, just tells you its not broke and then calls it a day. Wall Street getting someone to champion of the actual investor is long overdue. I don't know if Warren is going to take up that position but it looks like she's trying. She has a better chance then a Republican, it seems. In that you are in error. Warren has no interest in protecting the individual, in anything. The reason she looks like she is trying, is because that is the political approach = rallying the willfully ignorant, I am talking about. IF Warren had her way, the government would completely control banks, and even corporations, as has been done in Europe so many times. St. Gobain was nationalized by France....for about a year, and that was a complete failure. Warren wants to repeat mistakes like that. She is worse than Wall Street, because at least Wall Street has a profit motive, and profit means jobs. Warren has a power motive. That helps nobody but Warren, and whoever else attends her at her "court". Warren essentially wants to return us to Feudalism, where pieces of the economy are handed out to government barons, and provided they pay their tithes, they can squeeze their fiefs and then hand out bread and have circuses to appease the serfs. Ever lived in a city? Ever seen the people who vote D get a free turkey? Feudalism. Most Democrat-controlled cities are merely feudal city-states no different than Middle Age Florence, but, with bad princes, not good ones like the DiMedicis, in charge. Hence, Detroit. They want "income equality"...because they want power inequality. If all of us are making $30-40k a year, all of us have mediocre power. Then, all of us are highly susceptible to the Feudal state Warren wants to impose. One where not "the collective" but "her collective" exists to benefit itself, like a hive benefits the queen, and the rest of us are either lucky to be drones, or unlucky enough to be what the hive feeds on. This is all justified as "progress", becasue Warren "knows better". Small businesses like yours are the bane of Warren's existence: she'd much rather have you be part of the Farmer's Union....which takes 20% of your harvest in return for "protection" from the EPA, Interior, etc, and tells you what to plant, what to raise, when and how. Feudalism. Edited December 17, 2014 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 The system works right now because it is simply wash, rinse repeat. When the washer breaks you simply call on the Maytag man to come out there and write up a new method of washing. He does not fix anything, just tells you its not broke and then calls it a day. Wall Street getting someone to champion of the actual investor is long overdue. I don't know if Warren is going to take up that position but it looks like she's trying. She has a better chance then a Republican, it seems. The corruption in the financial section is vast and deep - for a little taste- http://www.democracynow.org/2014/11/7/matt_taibbi_and_bank_whistleblower_on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 When you guys are done with the populist circle jerk, you may want to understand how the capital markets really work, and will recognize that there is no such thing as the mythical Wall Street that you think there is. It is a global financial system that behaves very much like laws of physics governs gases. You put too much pressure on one side, the gas will look to escape on the other side. If you put too much pressure without an escape valve, look out. Yes, Wall Street has a big image problem. But it's no different than Marx blaming market speculation for all the evils in the market, as opposed to an inefficient market that is to blame. Ask your self jboyst, how much time in a day would you need to devote to raising your cattle, and then making sure that you have a buyer for the cattle and then ensuring that you can arrange delivery. Without the market maker, you have to arrange all of those steps. Not that easy, is it? That's why in the entire history of mankind the market makers obtained a higher premium, but have always been vilified. You are perfectly free to create your own market and be more efficient in building, selling and distributing on your own. Chances are you won't be as good as people who specialize in it. That's the long winded explanation to Chef Jim's point to STFU, buy a mutual fund and use your time to more productive uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 The corruption in the financial section is vast and deep - for a little taste- http://www.democracy...histleblower_on That's because it's full of psychopaths... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 That's because it's full of psychopaths... Yes if you think that the industry consists only of the trading floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Yes if you think that the industry consists only of the trading floor. Especially if you've gotten your knowledge of the trading floor by watching Trading Places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Especially if you've gotten your knowledge of the trading floor by watching Trading Places. Looking Good Billy Ray............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 In summation: Buy low, sell high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) That's because it's full of psychopaths... interestingly, my spell checker tried to change "dimon" to "demon"... When you guys are done with the populist circle jerk, you may want to understand how the capital markets really work, and will recognize that there is no such thing as the mythical Wall Street that you think there is. It is a global financial system that behaves very much like laws of physics governs gases. You put too much pressure on one side, the gas will look to escape on the other side. If you put too much pressure without an escape valve, look out. Yes, Wall Street has a big image problem. But it's no different than Marx blaming market speculation for all the evils in the market, as opposed to an inefficient market that is to blame. Ask your self jboyst, how much time in a day would you need to devote to raising your cattle, and then making sure that you have a buyer for the cattle and then ensuring that you can arrange delivery. Without the market maker, you have to arrange all of those steps. Not that easy, is it? That's why in the entire history of mankind the market makers obtained a higher premium, but have always been vilified. You are perfectly free to create your own market and be more efficient in building, selling and distributing on your own. Chances are you won't be as good as people who specialize in it. That's the long winded explanation to Chef Jim's point to STFU, buy a mutual fund and use your time to more productive uses. so if y'all are doing such a bang up job, what happened in 2008? 1929? seems your industry is especially prone to calamity. that's fine if it only harms you all but we all know that's not true. this add on to the budget helps literally insure it. we need protection from your incompetency and unbridled greed. Edited December 17, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Don't like the results? Don't play the game. Put your money in your mattress and wrap your smug around your Trojan Vibrating twister and sit on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Don't like the results? Don't play the game. Put your money in your mattress and wrap your smug around your Trojan Vibrating twister and sit on it. except that there are other alternatives. guess what? they involve regulation of the crooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 interestingly, my spell checker tried to change "dimon" to "demon"... so if y'all are doing such a bang up job, what happened in 2008? 1929? seems your industry is especially prone to calamity. that's fine if it only harms you all but we all know that's not true. this add on to the budget helps literally insure it. we need protection from your incompetency and unbridled greed. Wall Street is providing crack to addicts like you. And you gladly sop it up until you OD and then blame the crack dealer. The '29 crash was caused by unsophisticated investors running up the stock prices to unsustainable levels, and the 2008 real estate collapse was caused mostly by ordinary people overlevering themselves into buying properties they couldn't afford. Show me where a banker held a gun to anyone's head to take on a mortgage. But it's a lot easier to blame the bankers than the population's proclivity for excess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Wall Street is providing crack to addicts like you. And you gladly sop it up until you OD and then blame the crack dealer. The '29 crash was caused by unsophisticated investors running up the stock prices to unsustainable levels, and the 2008 real estate collapse was caused mostly by ordinary people overlevering themselves into buying properties they couldn't afford. Show me where a banker held a gun to anyone's head to take on a mortgage. But it's a lot easier to blame the bankers than the population's proclivity for excess. Same mentality of the people and their family who sue Mcdonalds because you're fat and have a heart attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Wall Street is providing crack to addicts like you. And you gladly sop it up until you OD and then blame the crack dealer. The '29 crash was caused by unsophisticated investors running up the stock prices to unsustainable levels, and the 2008 real estate collapse was caused mostly by ordinary people overlevering themselves into buying properties they couldn't afford. Show me where a banker held a gun to anyone's head to take on a mortgage. But it's a lot easier to blame the bankers than the population's proclivity for excess. incorrect. fortunately i wasn't around in 1929 and i did pretty well after 2008 - blood in the street and all that. not really relevant however. no guns were held to the borrowers head but none to the lenders either. and guess who is likely more sophisticated in these matters? no one hold a gun to peoples heads to take out payday loans either. doesn't make their existence moral or palatable. you arer seemingly loathe admit to any significant role of the financial industry in either crash. to any rational person, this should eliminate any thought of objectivity on your part. Edited December 17, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 incorrect. fortunately i wasn't around in 1929 and i did pretty well after 2008 - blood in the street and all that. not really relevant however. no guns were held to the borrowers head but none to the lenders either. and guess who is likely more sophisticated in these matters? no one hold a gun to peoples heads to take out payday loans either. doesn't make their existence moral or palatable. you arer seemingly loathe admit to any significant role of the financial industry in either crash. to any rational person, this should eliminate any thought of objectivity on your part. Hi pot. This is kettle. You're black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 incorrect. fortunately i wasn't around in 1929 and i did pretty well after 2008 - blood in the street and all that. not really relevant however. no guns were held to the borrowers head but none to the lenders either. and guess who is likely more sophisticated in these matters? no one hold a gun to peoples heads to take out payday loans either. doesn't make their existence moral or palatable. you arer seemingly loathe admit to any significant role of the financial industry in either crash. to any rational person, this should eliminate any thought of objectivity on your part. No, I'm just telling it like it is. Now, you tell me, what do pay day lenders have to do with Wall Street, Ms Warren? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hi pot. This is kettle. You're black. it's a $h#tty game but it's the only game in town and guys like gg make the rules. when in rome... No, I'm just telling it like it is. Now, you tell me, what do pay day lenders have to do with Wall Street, Ms Warren? expoitation. it's what your business model is based on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 it's a $h#tty game but it's the only game in town and guys like gg make the rules. when in rome... Actually, the rules were made in Congress, largely by the people you voted for. expoitation. it's what your business model is based on. That's just idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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