John in Jax Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Um, yes it does. When defenses know what he WANTS to do and forces him to do something else...as they have been doing... So they "force him" to go to an OPEN receiver, then he overthrows and/or misses that receiver badly, and it's not Orton's fault!? Wow, this board is like the theatre of the absurd sometimes......often times. LOL
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 If they didnt they were stupid. Its what theses guys do for a living! you dont think they even glanced at our starting qbs strengths and weaknesses? his tendencies? truly, the personnel department probably had an existing book on the guy but im sure they got out the film for a bit. He played a full game for Dallas in December 2013. The posters on this board even watched that footage before the Detroit game! And from a defense's standpoint, it would have prepared them for virtually zero re: the BILL'S offense. I'll step back a little bit and say they probably did watch him throw for other teams, but I highly doubt that prepared them for much more than timing a pitcher from the batter's box. Plus, another layer to the "no tape" is the scaled-back and different offense he probably ran compared to EJ in the first four weeks.
Fan in Chicago Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Could it also be that Orton (specifically his arm) is gassed out from no training camp, OTA's etc? Not sure how having on TC actually hurts his arm. I think Orton is good for upto 35-40 throws/game and then things go downhill fast. NOt saying he is great for this first 30+ throws but Hackett should keep the pass attempts as low as the opposing D allows.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 More and more this has been my take on the whole OC debacle this season, and it was reinforced yesterday by my buddy--who loves to hate Hackett--who texted from the game what I've feared to be true this whole time: Orton has been so bad, that it's virtually impossible to fairly evaluate the OC and the offense he's trying to run. I'm repeating what I've heard every single coach, scout and player say on this. Also, how do you explain the way EVERY new quarterback regresses back to the mean? Russell Wilson started out good and got better. Rodgers started out good and got better. Rivers started out good and got better. Foles started out good and got way better and then got worse. Kaep started out good and got much better and then got worse a year later. Brady started out good and got better. Tannehill started out pretty good and then got better. Luck started out good and got better. Dalton started out good and got better and then got worse a couple years later. besides, Orton wasn't a new guy, and he wasn't in a wildly different offense than the other teams had tape on.
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 So they "force him" to go to an OPEN receiver, then he overthrows and/or misses that receiver badly, and it's not Orton's fault!? Wow, this board is like the theatre of the absurd sometimes......often times. LOL Yes, sir. They can easily identify throws he can't make and let him try and beat them that way all day. If they know he's not likely to...jesus, nevermind.
Jauronimo Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 you dont think they even glanced at our starting qbs strengths and weaknesses? his tendencies? truly, the personnel department probably had an existing book on the guy but im sure they got out the film for a bit. They definitely looked at the old notes. However, every DC would be left guessing to certain extent without having seen Orton operate in this offense. Now with a few weeks of tape on how Orton operates in this offense, its been tougher sledding.
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Russell Wilson started out good and got better. Rodgers started out good and got better. Rivers started out good and got better. Foles started out good and got way better and then got worse. Kaep started out good and got much better and then got worse a year later. Brady started out good and got better. Tannehill started out pretty good and then got better. Luck started out good and got better. Dalton started out good and got better and then got worse a couple years later. besides, Orton wasn't a new guy, and he wasn't in a wildly different offense than the other teams had tape on. I'm not going to bother with you.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 How do you explain he can't throw easy passes anymore? Because defenses figured him out?
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 They definitely looked at the old notes. However, every DC would be left guessing to certain extent without having seen Orton operate in this offense. Now with a few weeks of tape on how Orton operates in this offense, its been tougher sledding. Enough with this wild and wacky thing that everyone associated with the league has and continues to echo. How do you explain he can't throw easy passes anymore? Because defenses figured him out? He could never throw them in the first place!
RealityCheck Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I gotta say. Ruben Brown is pretty vague in his criticism. I sum up his in depth analysis as "Orton bad. Hacket needs to call plays that make Orton look good. Defenses apparently won't adjust to what he does well." What a dope. The book on defending Orton has already been written, and guess what, all defenses attempt to make QBs do what they aren't good at. Just too funny.
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Do you not recall what defenses did to stifle Fitz/Gailey? They let receivers run free in single coverage down the sideline and took away all the underneath stuff. Guess what Fitz simply could not do.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Enough with this wild and wacky thing that everyone associated with the league has and continues to echo. He could never throw them in the first place! He threw numerous great passes in his first few games here. All kinds of them. That's just dead wrong.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I think part of the problem is that Marrone and Hackett have neutered him. He is more of the gunslinger type. he will make mistakes but will throw a bunch of good passes too. That's what he did when he first came here. Since that time, and partly because the defense is so good, I think Marrone and Hackett are not letting him be himself. They say don't make mistakes so many times that he has no confidence throwing and he falls to the ground instead of making plays. They took the gunslinger mentality away from him and tries to make him a game manager and now he is scared to throw anything. He looks completely lost. He is missing 5 yard passes. Thats as much on them as it is him, IMO, I think is it!! Orton is playing like EJ did...SCARED TO MAKE A MISTAKE.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 He could never throw them in the first place! Oh, now I get what you're saying. That he burst on the scene as an eight year vet and had all this success and was very effective, but now that teams have tape on him they figured him out and now he no longer has any success. But he never threw or could throw any good passes in the first place. Got it. Now it makes perfect sense. :wallbash:
Jauronimo Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 He threw numerous great passes in his first few games here. All kinds of them. That's just dead wrong. He did have some real nice tosses in his first three games to go along with the 5 feet behind his guy, can't connect on even a dump off type throws. Since his TD pass to Hogan against KC its been pretty miserable. Hes been just as wild but without any of the upside.
filthymcnasty08 Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I gotta say. Ruben Brown is pretty vague in his criticism. I sum up his in depth analysis as "Orton bad. Hacket needs to call plays that make Orton look good. Defenses apparently won't adjust to what he does well." What a dope. The book on defending Orton has already been written, and guess what, all defenses attempt to make QBs do what they aren't good at. Just too funny. Right - and good OC's can design plays to beat those DC's GIVEN their QB's weaknesses (every QB has them). Hence, the mind game/chess match that Coaches/Coordinators play with one another. We are at a complete disadvantage in that department on the offensive side of the ball. I have no doubt that Ruben was making a valid point. If he can see it, than TP's Consultant should see it too…way too much offensive OC talent out there to stick with NC another year with fingers crossed.
Captain Hindsight Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Yes Nate Hackett is telling Kyle to overthrow and throw behind his receivers. Thats the problem
Mark80 Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Sure. Unfortunately I'm on my phone so linking is out but Google Orton stats for verification (BTW if you type kyle Orton the 3rd suggestion is drunk lol) Currently Orton is throwing for the second most ypg of his career, has the second lowest int % of his career, second best td:int ratio, and second highest completion % while attemprint the second most passes of his career. Yeah, he also has the worst QBR since 2007, his yards per attempt are right at his career average and he's accumulated garbage stats in games that were had already pretty much lost (see 4th quarter vs Denver).
Jauronimo Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Right - and good OC's can design plays to beat those DC's GIVEN their QB's weaknesses (every QB has them). Hence, the mind game/chess match that Coaches/Coordinators play with one another. We are at a complete disadvantage in that department on the offensive side of the ball. I have no doubt that Ruben was making a valid point. If he can see it, than TP's Consultant should see it too…way too much offensive OC talent out there to stick with NC another year with fingers crossed. It'd be nice if Ruben elaborated considering guys are getting open and Kyle is missing them. I don't see any rhyme or reason behind which throws he can make and which he can't right now. Hes pretty erratic. What plays should Hackett call where you can still throw 8 feet behind the guy, into the dirt, or 10 yards past your WR and still be successful?
Coach Tuesday Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I'm not going to bother with you. I'm sure that if you just keep beating us all over the head with your un-nuanced perspective, eventually some of us morons will start to see the light. I, for one, am very grateful for you.
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