Dr. Fong Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 To me the number one problem with the passing game is that the running game continues to be stuck in the mud. Whatever we do in the offseason this must be addressed.
PolishDave Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 It is so easy to blame everything on Orton because he is the one with the football in his hands after every snap. It is really easy to just say he sucks and the lack of offensive production is his fault. I just wish this coach could find a handful of pass plays, including a couple that are designed to go more than 10 yards over the middle, that this offense could actually execute reasonably well. Give me 5 friggin pass plays. So far the count is zero. If coaching is not a major part of the problem, then how do you explain the fact that even when the Bills do execute a play well, why does it seem we never go back to that play again that game?
Kelly the Dog Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 If coaching is not a major part of the problem, then how do you explain the fact that even when the Bills do execute a play well, why does it seem we never go back to that play again that game? This is inexplicable as well. Unless it is a 2nd or 3rd and long fake reverse, screen to Freddie. That worked once or twice and now we have done it 832 times. We should call that play, "Chasing the heroin high."
JC2002 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Holy cow all of this is just false. Matt Cassell was the starting qb for the Chiefs. He got hurt against the Broncos November 13th at which point Palko took over. Orton joined the team on November 23rd. The coach (Todd Haley) got fired after the December 11th game (3 weeks later). You seriously think that it was because he didn't start the guy who they had just claimed?!?! I still don't get how this somehow validates Orton. He led the Chiefs offense to 19, 13, and 7 points in that order. So he regressed there as well (heavy sarcasm). He didn't come in and do magical things with the Chiefs he came in and did exactly what Kyle Orton does - plays mediocre. This is how I know you are full of it and slanting the facts or simply not even understanding what you are looking at Cassell gets hurt on the Nov 13th Chiefs lost Nov 7 and the game cassell got hurt in Nov 13th and then proceeded to lose the next game on (Mon) Nov 20 Thats 3 losses in a row now . Most wanted him to start against Pitt on Nov 28 but the coach said no thats 4 losses in a row . They beat the bears and backup Caleb Hanie 10-3 after the coach put in Orton for one play a flea flicker and he hurts his throwing hand . so thats 1-4 and they then gets trounced against the jets the next week and thats 1-5 . They fire Todd haley and name Romeo Crennel coach who immediately names Orton the starter . They then win 2 of the next 3 including beating the Broncos and tebow in Denver and the undefeated packers the lone loss came in OT after the Chiefs had a potential game winning kick blocked at home against raiders. When Orton was placed on waivers the Bears and Cowboys tried to grab him but the Chiefs were higher on the waiver wire so they got him which caused entire discussion about moving the trade deadline back so as the situation where the Broncos release a player and he gets picked up by a team in the same division who still has a chance to win the division . The Cowboys wanted Orton off waivers which is how he ended up with them after that season. As for the rest of your post I actually agree with you. The margin of error is very small but that is, to me, in large part, because of Orton's lack of consistency, accuracy, and performance. He isn't the worst qb in the world. I believe yesterday we settled on somewhere between 19 and 22nd best in the league. Unsurprisingly the Bills offense is 23rd in ypg, 19th in passing ypg, and 18th in ppg. Right what you would expect. The problem is that the passing offense was bad before Orton even going back to last year so I keep asking the same question about has put that the offense should be much improved knowing that the Oline is having serious issues . last year the offense was 19th in ypg, 28th in passing ypg ,and 21st in ppg but if you never read this board before and read these threads you would think we came into the year as the #1 offense in the league and orton stepped in and its tanked but in reality Orton has stepped in to plug up holes and keep afloat something that for all intensive purposes never existed which is our passing offense .
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 couldnt agree with you more Kelly When Orton first came in, he was much better and progressively gotten worse and more scared back there. A much a I like to say the lack of offense is more on Orton not executing (it is), I still come away with that's how Hackett is limiting his mistakes. Gotta take shots downfield. Yesterday the Paclers defenses were daring is to do it and we never did. At the same time, a few times where we did throw it medium to long range, the passes were so far off it was ridiculous. Your right. When he first started he was taking shots downfield with some success. Now when he attempts them, they're often poor throws or into coverage.
Dragonborn10 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 It is so easy to blame everything on Orton because he is the one with the football in his hands after every snap. It is really easy to just say he sucks and the lack of offensive production is his fault. It's easy to say because it is true. He is horrible. Did Hackett illegally block downfield on the screen pass to Woods? No that was the two first round and change pick Watkins that ruined that play. Does the entire offensive line look like garbage? Is that a rookie second round pick that hasn't dressed for a single game all year? Hard to lay all the blame on Hackett - though I would have no problem getting rid of him. For Reuben to say it is Hackett's fault Orton is not doing well is silly. We see the throws. Unless the pass plays are literally called wide right and wide left Orton is the guy that is not getting it done.
section122 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 This is how I know you are full of it and slanting the facts or simply not even understanding what you are looking at Cassell gets hurt on the Nov 13th Chiefs lost Nov 7 and the game cassell got hurt in Nov 13th and then proceeded to lose the next game on (Mon) Nov 20 Thats 3 losses in a row now . Most wanted him to start against Pitt on Nov 28 but the coach said no thats 4 losses in a row . They beat the bears and backup Caleb Hanie 10-3 after the coach put in Orton for one play a flea flicker and he hurts his throwing hand . so thats 1-4 and they then gets trounced against the jets the next week and thats 1-5 . They fire Todd haley and name Romeo Crennel coach who immediately names Orton the starter . They then win 2 of the next 3 including beating the Broncos and tebow in Denver and the undefeated packers the lone loss came in OT after the Chiefs had a potential game winning kick blocked at home against raiders. When Orton was placed on waivers the Bears and Cowboys tried to grab him but the Chiefs were higher on the waiver wire so they got him which caused entire discussion about moving the trade deadline back so as the situation where the Broncos release a player and he gets picked up by a team in the same division who still has a chance to win the division . The Cowboys wanted Orton off waivers which is how he ended up with them after that season. Most wanted him to start on November 28th? Are you serious? That is 5 days after he was claimed by the Chiefs! This is why you think I'm slanting facts?!?! What does what the fans want have anything to do with Orton's performance? If you are going to credit him for these wins and claim he was a big part of it when leading the team to 13 ppg while starting then we are going to have to agree to disagree here. However if you are going to do that you can't complain about the current offenses performance because they are averaging more than 20 ppg. I still don't get what you are driving at though. In a different conversation with a different poster I left off 3 games to slant facts? You still haven't stated what facts I am slanting. He didn't come into KC and set the world on fire. He went into KC and played very similarly to what we are seeing now. The problem is that the passing offense was bad before Orton even going back to last year so I keep asking the same question about has put that the offense should be much improved knowing that the Oline is having serious issues . last year the offense was 19th in ypg, 28th in passing ypg ,and 21st in ppg but if you never read this board before and read these threads you would think we came into the year as the #1 offense in the league and orton stepped in and its tanked but in reality Orton has stepped in to plug up holes and keep afloat something that for all intensive purposes never existed which is our passing offense . Yes it was. Starting EJ, Thad, and Tuel. That is a project, a third stringer, and a practice squad player. Do you want to rank them any higher than Orton's 19-23? If not doesn't that go hand in hand with what I have been saying. Let me put it even more simply: Have you ever heard the phrase that QB is the most important position in sports? If so why do you think that is a common held belief? An offense's success or lack of pretty closely correlates with the talent at the qb position period.
Coach Tuesday Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) I think it's a combination of both the coaches and Orton not trusting his interior protection. He's coached both expressly and implicitly to focus on his primary read and get rid of the ball, and he feels the same way - all hell will break loose in the middle of that pocket if he doesn't get the ball out. As a result, he misses open receivers who are his second and third reads. The failure of OBD to address the guard position has impacted the way the team is coached and the way the QB plays. It's sad. Edited December 17, 2014 by Coach Tuesday
Maddog69 Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 I think is it!! Orton is playing like EJ did...SCARED TO MAKE A MISTAKE. Orton isn't playing like he's scared to make a mistake. He makes them on almost every play. He's playing like he doesn't give a crap at all. That's the part about him that I really dislike.
NewEra Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Answer with one word, yes or no: If you were to ask Kyle Orton whether or not the coaches have coached him into timidity, do you think he'd say yes? Also this. He'd say no. Because that's what he should say. He would be thinking, yes, Nate sucks. Orton is worse than ever. Some of it is on him. I also elite some of it is on Hackett. Jmo
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