BELLABEANER Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Been watching football but Im no expert and wont pretend to be. I was watching channel 2 sports extra last night and thought Ruben Brown made some very telling comments about the Bills offense. To paraphrase he said nate hackett is not doing a good job of putting orton in a position to succeed. He said, as most of us know, that Orton is limited in what he can do and isnt capable of executing a complete package of passing plays. He further stated that Nate Hackett isnt putting together game plans that recognize this and that put Orton in the best position to succeed. He thinks Orton and Hackett are on different pages and that is leaving Orton frustated and 'lost'. He further stated that defenses have recognized this and they are now playing coverages to force orton to go where he doesnt want to and hackett is doing nothing to counter this. My conclusion from all this. Nate Hackett is a young inexperienced coordinator who is being taken advantage of by defensive coordinators who have far more knowledge at this level. We cant afford to wait unti Hackett figures it out, if he ever does figure it out. Free agency will eventually tear apart this dominant defenseand the window of opportunity is 2-4 years at best. The need to fire hackett and get the best o-coordinator money can buy. Make him an assistant head coach if you need to. I get that we dont have the greatest personnel on offense right now, but there is nothing to lose by getting rid of hackett.
TSOL Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Did you see Ruben wearing an ascot? He looked like Sir Richard Pumpaloaf up there!
section122 Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 It's funny because Orton is having one of if not his best year of his career.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I think part of the problem is that Marrone and Hackett have neutered him. He is more of the gunslinger type. he will make mistakes but will throw a bunch of good passes too. That's what he did when he first came here. Since that time, and partly because the defense is so good, I think Marrone and Hackett are not letting him be himself. They say don't make mistakes so many times that he has no confidence throwing and he falls to the ground instead of making plays. They took the gunslinger mentality away from him and tries to make him a game manager and now he is scared to throw anything. He looks completely lost. He is missing 5 yard passes. Thats as much on them as it is him, IMO,
John from Riverside Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 The problem is our interior OL......when things are going wrong in the passing game we dont have the horses to knuckle down and grind out yards when we have to....... I am not against looking for another OC and QB for that matter.....but OL needs to be addressed heavily.....both in free agency AND the draft
TPS Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 The offense has no identity. At least with EJ they stuck to the running game. They need to go back to that and it would open up more play action for Orton. I liked their first drive after half time which was run-oriented. That was the only time they did that.
BuffaninATL Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 It's funny because Orton is having one of if not his best year of his career. Do you have any data to back this up? I find your comment very hard to believe....
BELLABEANER Posted December 15, 2014 Author Posted December 15, 2014 It's funny because Orton is having one of if not his best year of his career. Not the past four games. Hes been getting progressively worse. Teams have figured out how Hackett is using him and they are game planning accordingly.
mrags Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 (edited) I think part of the problem is that Marrone and Hackett have neutered him. He is more of the gunslinger type. he will make mistakes but will throw a bunch of good passes too. That's what he did when he first came here. Since that time, and partly because the defense is so good, I think Marrone and Hackett are not letting him be himself. They say don't make mistakes so many times that he has no confidence throwing and he falls to the ground instead of making plays. They took the gunslinger mentality away from him and tries to make him a game manager and now he is scared to throw anything. He looks completely lost. He is missing 5 yard passes. Thats as much on them as it is him, IMO, couldnt agree with you more Kelly When Orton first came in, he was much better and progressively gotten worse and more scared back there. A much a I like to say the lack of offense is more on Orton not executing (it is), I still come away with that's how Hackett is limiting his mistakes. Gotta take shots downfield. Yesterday the Paclers defenses were daring is to do it and we never did. At the same time, a few times where we did throw it medium to long range, the passes were so far off it was ridiculous. Edited December 15, 2014 by mrags
BELLABEANER Posted December 15, 2014 Author Posted December 15, 2014 Do you have any data to back this up? I find your comment very hard to believe.... My data is an eight time probowler who knows the game better than everyone on these boards combined. Including myself. People on these boards love to pretend that they know when they dont have a clue as to the intricacies of NFL offenses and defenses. Thats why Im quoting a guy who played in the league for more than a decade.
section122 Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Do you have any data to back this up? I find your comment very hard to believe.... Sure. Unfortunately I'm on my phone so linking is out but Google Orton stats for verification (BTW if you type kyle Orton the 3rd suggestion is drunk lol) Currently Orton is throwing for the second most ypg of his career, has the second lowest int % of his career, second best td:int ratio, and second highest completion % while attemprint the second most passes of his career.
dave mcbride Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I think part of the problem is that Marrone and Hackett have neutered him. He is more of the gunslinger type. he will make mistakes but will throw a bunch of good passes too. That's what he did when he first came here. Since that time, and partly because the defense is so good, I think Marrone and Hackett are not letting him be himself. They say don't make mistakes so many times that he has no confidence throwing and he falls to the ground instead of making plays. They took the gunslinger mentality away from him and tries to make him a game manager and now he is scared to throw anything. He looks completely lost. He is missing 5 yard passes. Thats as much on them as it is him, IMO, Good points. He did play differently earlier. I really think that Hackett has to go.
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 couldnt agree with you more Kelly When Orton first came in, he was much better and progressively gotten worse and more scared back there. A much a I like to say the lack of offense is more on Orton not executing (it is), I still come away with that's how Hackett is limiting his mistakes. Gotta take shots downfield. Yesterday the Paclers defenses were daring is to do it and we never did. At the same time, a few times where we did throw it medium to long range, the passes were so far off it was ridiculous. Every former coach, player and scout has said that Orton--just like every other QB that bursts on to a scene then regresses--is a victim of defenses getting tape on him. Period. Why we try and overcomplicate the matter by pinning it on some ethereal psychological strangle hold imposed by the coaching staff, I'll never know. Also, we did take shots yesterday. One was horribly overthrown, one was horribly underthrown, resulting in a pick, one was thrown into double coverage and Sammy made a RIDICULOUS catch on another.
BillsVet Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 The problem is our interior OL......when things are going wrong in the passing game we dont have the horses to knuckle down and grind out yards when we have to....... I am not against looking for another OC and QB for that matter.....but OL needs to be addressed heavily.....both in free agency AND the draft 14 games into the season it's up to coaches to scheme to stay ahead of their opponents. It's why what was working the first 4 games Orton played aren't working now. The true measure of an adept and innovative team (when talent is similar) is to put their players into position to succeed. Of course players need to make plays but this is an extremely nuanced topic. And it's incumbent on coaches to recognize what they do well, what they don't do well, and how to improve it. I don't think, on a decent weather day, Orton is a 14-27 for 158 yards and 1 INT level QB in the NFL. EJ is, but KO isn't. This is more scheme and play-calling than it is QB.
PaattMaann Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 My data is an eight time probowler who knows the game better than everyone on these boards combined. Including myself. People on these boards love to pretend that they know when they dont have a clue as to the intricacies of NFL offenses and defenses. Thats why Im quoting a guy who played in the league for more than a decade. he was not even talking to you/about your post haha - do you know how to use the board? and there are many posters on this board who understand the NFL and the "intricacies of the NFL offenses and defenses" (and many who are just talking out of their ass)
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Do you have any data to back this up? I find your comment very hard to believe.... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm
rumblefish Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Ruben speaking from experience is the key here, the Bill's offence in the Kelly years didn't take off till he started calling his own plays,maybe it's time for the O gun, in reality it couldn't be worst, than offence is now
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 14 games into the season it's up to coaches to scheme to stay ahead of their opponents. It's why what was working the first 4 games Orton played aren't working now. The true measure of an adept and innovative team (when talent is similar) is to put their players into position to succeed. Of course players need to make plays but this is an extremely nuanced topic. And it's incumbent on coaches to recognize what they do well, what they don't do well, and how to improve it. I don't think, on a decent weather day, Orton is a 14-27 for 158 yards and 1 INT level QB in the NFL. EJ is, but KO isn't. This is more scheme and play-calling than it is QB. You must have missed the passes he sailed to Woods and Watkins in single coverage down field, the one that was six feet behind Woods as he ran untouched across the center of field on third down and many, many other HORRIBLE passes that went along with his uninspired decision making.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Been watching football but Im no expert and wont pretend to be. I was watching channel 2 sports extra last night and thought Ruben Brown made some very telling comments about the Bills offense. To paraphrase he said nate hackett is not doing a good job of putting orton in a position to succeed. He said, as most of us know, that Orton is limited in what he can do and isnt capable of executing a complete package of passing plays. He further stated that Nate Hackett isnt putting together game plans that recognize this and that put Orton in the best position to succeed. He thinks Orton and Hackett are on different pages and that is leaving Orton frustated and 'lost'. He further stated that defenses have recognized this and they are now playing coverages to force orton to go where he doesnt want to and hackett is doing nothing to counter this. My conclusion from all this. Nate Hackett is a young inexperienced coordinator who is being taken advantage of by defensive coordinators who have far more knowledge at this level. We cant afford to wait unti Hackett figures it out, if he ever does figure it out. Free agency will eventually tear apart this dominant defenseand the window of opportunity is 2-4 years at best. The need to fire hackett and get the best o-coordinator money can buy. Make him an assistant head coach if you need to. I get that we dont have the greatest personnel on offense right now, but there is nothing to lose by getting rid of hackett. Interesting thoughts, not the first time we've heard something along these lines from a former player. Not that former players are always the best source for decision making, in this case however....where there's smoke there's fire? This offense is a snagged knot that needs to be completely figure out in the offseason.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 couldnt agree with you more Kelly When Orton first came in, he was much better and progressively gotten worse and more scared back there. A much a I like to say the lack of offense is more on Orton not executing (it is), I still come away with that's how Hackett is limiting his mistakes. Gotta take shots downfield. Yesterday the Paclers defenses were daring is to do it and we never did. At the same time, a few times where we did throw it medium to long range, the passes were so far off it was ridiculous. I have seen little evidence he can go downfield and consistently hit the mark. Absent that ability, why would a defense respect the deep pass? I struggle with blaming Hackett for much of this.
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