JC2002 Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 forget about the plays where the OL gives up pressure immediately. No QB can have success on those plays, be it Brady or Geno Smith. The problem, lately, is when he has time to throw, he's not stepping into his throws, he's not letting the play develop when there is actual time to do so. He's gun shy and he's being inaccurate on easy throws. That is reality. Another thing, he's not in command of the offense, he doesn't put the offense in better situations, he's like he going with the motions and running the plays the OC gives him. You say he should put the offense in better situation but Ill say this again but you assume you know what they're capable of adjusting on the fly like that and I haven't seen it yet . Hes not gonna step into his throws when the center is usually getting pushed back into him . Hes a pocket passer so hes not looking to slide more than 1-2 yards either way while keeping his eyes down the field and he hasn't been able to do that lately . The lack of the ability to punch it in on the ground within the red zone puts a ton of pressure on the passing game and gives them a very small margin of error . We are at 80% passing rate in the redzone and so everyone knows you are passing . We can be better than we have shown but the margins are so much smaller than other than other teams .
Fixxxer Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 You say he should put the offense in better situation but Ill say this again but you assume you know what they're capable of adjusting on the fly like that and I haven't seen it yet . Hes not gonna step into his throws when the center is usually getting pushed back into him . Hes a pocket passer so hes not looking to slide more than 1-2 yards either way while keeping his eyes down the field and he hasn't been able to do that lately . The lack of the ability to punch it in on the ground within the red zone puts a ton of pressure on the passing game and gives them a very small margin of error . We are at 80% passing rate in the redzone and so everyone knows you are passing . We can be better than we have shown but the margins are so much smaller than other than other teams . He's the QB of the offense, he knows the playbook, he can change plays at the LOS if he doesn't see something he doesn't like, or maybe he doesn't know what he is seeing. Regarding the center comment, I told you to forget about those plays, when he has time to make something positive with a clean pocket he's playing with zero confidence and throwing everything short.
Big Gun Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 My points are valid and factual. By taking it to the you shoulda level, youve shown theres little arguement to keep that bum in there in lieu of a younger stronger faster and way more in football shape guy. Carry on your rampant Orton apologist mentality. 14/27 158 yrds. 54.2 QBR EJ has 14 games under his belt and hes better than that. Me, i wanna see what he can do after he gets in his rhythm I can agree with that, but he is not on the bench because of those attributes, he is on the bench because he has nothing between the ears. Put Ortons head on EJs body and we would have a damn good QB.
TSOL Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I can agree with that, but he is not on the bench because of those attributes, he is on the bench because he has nothing between the ears. Put Ortons head on EJs body and we would have a damn good QB. Plus hed have a badass scar all the way around his neck. How intimidating would that be
papazoid Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Put Ortons head on EJs body and we would have a damn good QB. we need a third persons arm
2003Contenders Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Honestly,I think part of the issue with Orton is that what we see is in some ways a representation of the coach's mind-set. That is, by his very nature Marrone is a conservative coach. He prefers to condense the clock by playing strong defense and not take unnecessary chances with the offense. This is similar to how Jaraun used to be -- only, Marrone has a far superior defense to any that Jaraun ever had. That is just the way it is. As long as the Bills are in the lead or within a score, you are not going to find Orton take many shots down the field.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Firstly, to answer your question, I have watched every game and every play of the year. Secondly, he is winning in Buffalo. He's 5-4. Name the last Bills QB who had a record over .500. Thirdly, he heas faced far more than his share of top defenses. No this is not a weak excuse. These are the defenses he's faced and their corresponding defensive rank. #2 - Lions #4 - Broncos #6 - Miami #7 - New York #8 - Kansas City #12 - Minnesota #13 - New England #20 - Cleveland That is freaking brutal. I think that takes care of all your points. Many teams play those same teams with a lot more QB success than Orton has against them...not a viable excuse. Orton isn't very good. Our defense is outstanding. With a better QB we are contending for the division crown, not trying to just barely sneak in the playoffs. The Defense, ST, and offensive weapons are good enough for this to be a 12 win team...our QB holds back to be a team thats going to struggle to get enough wins to make the playoffs. Love the win today, but once again, Orton wasn't good and I just don't see him being a guy to lead this team in the future. I still feel strongly we need a QB...problem is, I don't know if one will be a available thats better than Orton in FA and its not exactly an exact science finding one in the draft. And with us winning today, that all but seals him finishing the season out meaning we won't even get a glimpse of whether EJ got better or not.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 They learn early. @MatthewFairburn Just watching Kyle Orton quarterback:
RyanC883 Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 I agree that he is not the ultimate answer at quarterback. He is not a premiere QB. He is pretty good. After going through years of JP Losman and Trent Edwards, be careful what you wish for. This guy can move the ball and distribute to playmakers at least. He's only 31. Keep him around until we legitimately have a franchise guy. This is exactly correct. On the one hand I'm glad that after so many terrible QB's most bills fans are not happy with "not terrible." On the other hand, "not terrible" is a decent backup, and should not be run out of town when "terrible" is the other option. Bring in some training camp competition and see what happens.
FireChan Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Many teams play those same teams with a lot more QB success than Orton has against them...not a viable excuse. Orton isn't very good. Our defense is outstanding. With a better QB we are contending for the division crown, not trying to just barely sneak in the playoffs. The Defense, ST, and offensive weapons are good enough for this to be a 12 win team...our QB holds back to be a team thats going to struggle to get enough wins to make the playoffs. Love the win today, but once again, Orton wasn't good and I just don't see him being a guy to lead this team in the future. I still feel strongly we need a QB...problem is, I don't know if one will be a available thats better than Orton in FA and its not exactly an exact science finding one in the draft. And with us winning today, that all but seals him finishing the season out meaning we won't even get a glimpse of whether EJ got better or not. Many teams also don't. Rodgers played AWFUL vs Detroit. Detroit struggled vs Minn today. etc etc. Of course, it's not "fine then Orton is just unlucky," but don't kid yourself into thinking everyone plays well all the time against top D's.
CardinalScotts Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 We need more from him, he's a veteran qb who's had success. I do respect the fact he protects the football although his falling down without a struggle is tough to watch it's actually a better thing then struggling to stay up and fumbling. Don't put the defense in a bad spot and we'll be okay.....i agree with it --FOR NOW. An ability to run the football would help greatly they don't respect the play action pass and why would they.
Webster Guy Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 he definitely has had some nice throws, and his veteran apptoach to the game has helped guys like sammy and robert woods learn a few things EJ wasn't able to show them. i hope we get rid of him after this season though. the only way you get a ring in this league is with a top notch qb, and you don't get those by winning 6,7,8 or more games a year. you have to bottom out by trying rookies until you get a high enough pick (or be flat out lucky) until you draft one that has what it takes. orton is too good to get you bottomed out, but never will get you to the bowl either. sick of treading water with these medicore fitz type guys.
BillsBackersChicago Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Here's what I'll say: a) Orton is not a longterm answer. b) Orton is as good of a backup QB as you could possibly hope for. c) Orton is a top 32 QB in the world so a guy like him is going to keep getting his shots- he'll always be better than what some teams have but he'll never really be seen as a longterm solution. d) I think one thing that Bills fans are kind of naïve about is that they'll look at Orton's stats and say "yeah, well, but..." but then they'll take another QB with nearly identical stats and blindly talk about how they're obviously a better QB even though they don't watch that other QB play every game, when that other QB frustrates their fanbase just as much as a guy like Orton frustrates us. The truth of the matter is that Orton is what his stats say he is and so is every other QB. Very true. Great post, albeit a little depressing because u know its gonna happen exactly like that. we need a third persons arm Hilarious
Alphadawg7 Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Many teams also don't. Rodgers played AWFUL vs Detroit. Detroit struggled vs Minn today. etc etc. Of course, it's not "fine then Orton is just unlucky," but don't kid yourself into thinking everyone plays well all the time against top D's. I didn't say all QBs every game have better games against those teams...but lets also not pretend that those Defenses are all the 85 Bears. Its not the defense when Orton misses his open guys by a mile. Its not the Defense when Orton doesn't see open guys and instead dumps it off. Orton has not been good, there is no amount of spin to validate is below average play.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Thats insane. How can you say that? How can you think that Ej could look any worse than Orton today? In my eyes, everything was there, the offense played well, the game plan has been there for the last two weeks. Coaching isnt a problem, theres one glaring weakness on this team and we all saw what it was. I have no idea of Ortons stats today and i dont care. He looked awful. All i know is, is EJ stronger and faster. No offensive TD's says it all. EJ could have just as easily had no TD's today either. But i dont think he would have, i think EJ would have been able to punch it in once. Just on the energy the rest of the team was carrying alone. And i dont wanna hear about the WR Mutiny either. Whos this mutiny consist of anyways? Woods? A second yr player that hasnt proven anything? And a rookie? Neither one of those guys has any place forming a mutiny. Woods is a professional football player, hell catch balls thrown by who the coach say throws them, not the other way around. Or maybe Hogan was gonna mutiny? Or Chandler? Doubtful are you forgetting how wildly inaccurate he was when he got benched.
rumblefish Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 unappreciated or not, there is a saying: you dress for success, after viewing his post game interview, we wonder who dresses this guy, maybe the Bill's need to send him for a eye exam, maybe he is color blind, homeless dress better
reddogblitz Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Honestly,I think part of the issue with Orton is that what we see is in some ways a representation of the coach's mind-set. That is, by his very nature Marrone is a conservative coach. He prefers to condense the clock by playing strong defense and not take unnecessary chances with the offense. This is similar to how Jaraun used to be -- only, Marrone has a far superior defense to any that Jaraun ever had. That is just the way it is. As long as the Bills are in the lead or within a score, you are not going to find Orton take many shots down the field. Doug Ball = Dick Ball
FireChan Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Doug Ball = Dick Ball Except Orton took shots down the field, he just can't complete them. Taking a shot on Woods with a yard of separation on 3rd and 5 with 2 minutes to go is Dick Jauron ball?
TSOL Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 are you forgetting how wildly inaccurate he was when he got benched. Yeah, i saw EJ throw some bad passes. I saw him throw some good ones too. I saw EJ smoke the jets last year, just like Orton this year. I cant really keep up the arguement, im pretty sure everyone around here thinks im nuts anyways. All i know is we have a pretty good team here and if we could get solid QB play wed be able to take it to the next level.
FireChan Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Yeah, i saw EJ throw some bad passes. I saw him throw some good ones too. I saw EJ smoke the jets last year, just like Orton this year. I cant really keep up the arguement, im pretty sure everyone around here thinks im nuts anyways. All i know is we have a pretty good team here and if we could get solid QB play wed be able to take it to the next level. I mean, you're not wrong when you say EJ couldn't be much worse. But he was still worse. And it'd be irresponsible, in the midst of a playoff push, to play the lesser guy. I think making the playoffs or even getting close does more for "the good" of this franchise as 2 extra games of development for EJ.
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