1billsfan Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 I believe you will see both Marrone and Hackett next year. QB is our #1 issue. Changing the whole thing is not what Bills need. Hackett said in his interview that he never wans to go 4-5 yrds. He always wants to throw deep. I believe him. I want the team to get someone that fits that Bill! Hackett is lying. The only reason he's saying that NOW is because his "play it safe/check down at all costs/take what the defense gives you" offense was a total failure. If you want Hackett's true and wimpy offensive philosophy then just watch this august interview at (2:26)... http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Nathaniel-Hackett-on-OLine-and-the-Red-Zone/32e57e61-a6bd-442d-b9f2-924b9fd287ce “we never want to force anything, cause all of a sudden we’re forcing the ball downfield and were forcing, forcing, forcing and causing turnovers…we just want to be able to take what the defense gives us” I would be ashamed to be an NFL offensive coordinator and have this as my philosophy. I know that you'll point out that they only have Manuel and Orton to work with, but I would protest that Hackett never even gave his QBs the opportunity to succeed or fail given that they were told to never force anything. This is the NFL, if you never force the issue you will never know if your QB can actually do it. How stupid was it of the Bills to take EJ Manuel and never let him force the issue down the field? This is the biggest job of a franchise QB and they NEVER let him try. Hackett's now telling you to believe him and not your lying eyes. I ask all Bills fans backing Marrone, why you would want him back as your head coach when his offensive coordinator has that as his pathetic offensive philosophy? This is 2014, the pass play has been made as easy as possible with rules changes, they used 2 first rd picks on a WR, and the Bills are acting like the 1950's era is the way to go offensively. Marrone and Hackett do not have the stomach for turnovers to a loser's fault and are basically cowards on offense. There is no way a smart man who paid over a billion dollars for the Bills will continue to employ Marrone or Hackett in 2015. The Bills have the worst head coach and offensive coordinator in the NFL. I'd like to see the list of who's worse.
San-O Posted December 14, 2014 Author Posted December 14, 2014 I believe you will see both Marrone and Hackett next year. QB is our #1 issue. Changing the whole thing is not what Bills need. Hackett said in his interview that he never wans to go 4-5 yrds. He always wants to throw deep. I believe him. I want the team to get someone that fits that Bill! At one point this season, the Bills O was last in NFL in 1st downs and last in red zone conversions: That's on the O coordinator I believe.
Mango Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 There is some whisper of Fitz being let go next year. I'd consider. The only way Bradford becomes available is if he won't resctructure. His contract is too high for us to trade. Locker I guess is an option...I don't think I'd touch RG3. We could roll the dice and toss the 2nd round pick to STL and see if they bite on Bradford, contingent on a restructure. If Alex Smith is worth it so is Bradford. Look for a combination of G/DE in some order with our 2nd/3rd. No FA gaurd worth starting will be picked up. That's assuming we resign both Dareus and Hughes. Our cap situation will be interesting to watch the next few years.
RealityCheck Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 At one point this season, the Bills O was last in NFL in 1st downs and last in red zone conversions: That's on the O coordinator I believe. That's on the entire offense, not just one guy.
nucci Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 At one point this season, the Bills O was last in NFL in 1st downs and last in red zone conversions: That's on the O coordinator I believe. Not the QB?
1billsfan Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 That's on the entire offense, not just one guy. Well, you're only right in the sense that Marrone should be added to a table for two. You're not right in blaming the Bills offensive players... Defense: 2nd in there NFL in takeaways Offense: 5th in average drive start (yardage marker they start at) 7th in number of drives 29th in average yards per drive 25th in number of plays per drive 17th in points per game Sorry, but these numbers are a total indictment on the offensive coordinator. The NFL is a league set up for you to score a lot of points even with even average talent on offense (which without a doubt the Bills have). Now you add in the 28 turnovers given to your offense by your defense, fifth best in drives starts, 7th best in number of drives and that nets you the only 17th best in points per game???? You think that the Bills players are responsible for being 29th in average yards per start? 25th in number of plays per drive? How anyone can still back Nate Hackett is beyond me. It should be crystal clear that the offense is being held way way down by two predictable and play it safe anchors named Hackett and Marrone. These arguments are reminding me when fans were blaming Bills players and covering for the coaches in the lead weight offense Dick Jauron era.
RealityCheck Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Well, you're only right in the sense that Marrone should be added to a table for two. You're not right in blaming the Bills offensive players... Defense: 2nd in there NFL in takeaways Offense: 5th in average drive start (yardage marker they start at) 7th in number of drives 29th in average yards per drive 25th in number of plays per drive 17th in points per game Sorry, but these numbers are a total indictment on the offensive coordinator. The NFL is a league set up for you to score a lot of points even with even average talent on offense (which without a doubt the Bills have). Now you add in the 28 turnovers given to your offense by your defense, fifth best in drives starts, 7th best in number of drives and that nets you the only 17th best in points per game???? You think that the Bills players are responsible for being 29th in average yards per start? 25th in number of plays per drive? How anyone can still back Nate Hackett is beyond me. It should be crystal clear that the offense is being held way way down by two predictable and play it safe anchors named Hackett and Marrone. These arguments are reminding me when fans were blaming Bills players and covering for the coaches in the lead weight offense Dick Jauron era. Did you really mean that to say that the offensive players are not responsible for their bad performance?
1billsfan Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Did you really mean that to say that the offensive players are not responsible for their bad performance? Yes I did. I gave you the numbers and you chose to ignore them. The reason the Bills are only 17th in points scored given all the advantages of NFL rules changes favoring scoring, drive starts, numbers of drives, 28 takeaways, is because of bad coaching not bad players. High school offenses are more unpredictable than the Buffalo Bills offense.
machine gun kelly Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Interesting. What accomplished O.C. is going to come to Buffalo with E.J. or Kyle Orton to work with? One who is overpaid by Pegula as there is no salary cap on coaches. Remember Gruden kept Kiffin for 4 mil a year as a defensive coordinator. It made sense down here in ten years, the defense was in the top 10 every year, twice #1, and I believe 6 of the 10 were in the top 5. My point simply is you can get a guy like a Kubiak, Philbin, Turner, or another top offensive mind if your willing to pay, remind them of a top defense, some excellent skill players in Woods, Spiller, and Watkins, and three very sound offensive lineman. You can pitch your plan to bring in more talent in free agency, and the draft, so they will get more players, and lastly, again we'll retain our defensive talent. That can be done with restructuring Mario's contract, the cap goes up, but what we have not seen yet is the Thursday night football bidding war. So what the players can reap the benefits is Thursday night football went to CBS for 8 games which was free money. Well, once we hit the off season, let the race start between CBS, NBC, Fox, and who knows, maybe ABC/ESPN shoot for 16 games contract. That is double the money the NFL received this year at the least. The ratings were through the roof this year. Even if they stop in week 16, meaning they are done with two weeks left, it's a good thing for players. I can't remember the exact figure, but the CBA negotiated they collect greater than 50% (51-53% if memory serves) of the revenues. The cap then will go up more than we know at this point and we're not paying big money at QB. I'm not against the idea of Bradford. He's a much better option than RG3, or Cousins. Who knows what will happen with Foles, and his second year was not as stellar as his first. Now onto today, let's kick the Packers asses today!!! I know I still have a little spiked cool-aid left in my cup I won't throw out until 4 pm today. You never know. The Chiefs when they sucked surprised the Packers on their SB year and they stubbed their toe.
thewildrabbit Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Hackett is lying. The only reason he's saying that NOW is because his "play it safe/check down at all costs/take what the defense gives you" offense was a total failure. If you want Hackett's true and wimpy offensive philosophy then just watch this august interview at (2:26)... http://www.buffalobi...f2-924b9fd287ce “we never want to force anything, cause all of a sudden we’re forcing the ball downfield and were forcing, forcing, forcing and causing turnovers…we just want to be able to take what the defense gives us” I would be ashamed to be an NFL offensive coordinator and have this as my philosophy. I know that you'll point out that they only have Manuel and Orton to work with, but I would protest that Hackett never even gave his QBs the opportunity to succeed or fail given that they were told to never force anything. This is the NFL, if you never force the issue you will never know if your QB can actually do it. How stupid was it of the Bills to take EJ Manuel and never let him force the issue down the field? This is the biggest job of a franchise QB and they NEVER let him try. Hackett's now telling you to believe him and not your lying eyes. I ask all Bills fans backing Marrone, why you would want him back as your head coach when his offensive coordinator has that as his pathetic offensive philosophy? This is 2014, the pass play has been made as easy as possible with rules changes, they used 2 first rd picks on a WR, and the Bills are acting like the 1950's era is the way to go offensively. Marrone and Hackett do not have the stomach for turnovers to a loser's fault and are basically cowards on offense. There is no way a smart man who paid over a billion dollars for the Bills will continue to employ Marrone or Hackett in 2015. The Bills have the worst head coach and offensive coordinator in the NFL. I'd like to see the list of who's worse. good stuff, thanks for posting I don't think the Bills will have any trouble signing any new HC or OC they want, as the new owners are 100% dedicated to winning, and are some of the richest in the league. Marrone was hired by the old regime with Russ Brandon at the top of the food chain. The Bills can now afford one of the higher priced head coaches, like the Bill Belichick's, Pete Carroll's, Sean Payton's, Jim Harbaugh's, Tom Coughlin's of the world. Shoot, they could even lure "the Chin" out of the TV studio if they so desired.
NastyNateSoldiers Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Has extensive experience as an OL coach. Offensive Coordinator under Mike McCarthy for about 4-5 years before becoming HC at Miami. Widely regarded as a very brilliant offensive mind. His offense was always ranked in the top 10 at GB. Doesn't hurt to have Aaron Rodgers though. I'd tak him as our OC. If the Dolphins fire Philbin the man u want is OC Bill Lasor, he's an excellent young coach with a vast playbook. Bill Lasor has allot of Chip Kellys philosophy. Look what he's done with mediocre talent. Lamar Miller is flourishing in his system, imagine what Cj can do in a spread system like this.
fansince88 Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) OK, so let me get this right.... 1) Great play by the D is not because of the great players on D Because it is all Swartz? That is the argument of poor play by the Offence. 2) Offence is playing bad so that is all on Hackett and Marrone and not the players because they are only bad because of the coaches? Sum it all up like this: Good D is on Swartz not the players but Marrone cant be credited at all for that. Bad O is on Hackett and Marrone because he is head coach and that is on him too but not the good D play. Is that right? All that said I never once said they should not can Hackett. Just said I would be surprised Edited December 14, 2014 by fansince88
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 If the Dolphins fire Philbin the man u want is OC Bill Lasor, he's an excellent young coach with a vast playbook. Bill Lasor has allot of Chip Kellys philosophy. Look what he's done with mediocre talent. Lamar Miller is flourishing in his system, imagine what Cj can do in a spread system like this. I've heard of him. Git er done Buddy!! Err...I mean Doug!
What a Tuel Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Not so. Whaley on record said that they thought very highly on ODB. What make you think they woulda taken Ebron? The mock drafts? Pretty sure Whaley has said himself that Ebron would have been the pick if we stayed at 9. I can't find the source though.
1billsfan Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) OK, so let me get this right.... 1) Great play by the D is not because of the great players on D Because it is all Swartz? That is the argument of poor play by the Offence. 2) Offence is playing bad so that is all on Hackett and Marrone and not the players because they are only bad because of the coaches? Sum it all up like this: Good D is on Swartz not the players but Marrone cant be credited at all for that. Bad O is on Hackett and Marrone because he is head coach and that is on him too but not the good D play. Is that right? 1) A monkey could coach our defense to a top 10 in the league because we have great players there. 2) Our offense has an average unit talent-wise and they were given every advantage possible (which I've provided straight facts on) and they failed miserably by almost every measure. That's coaching. If the defense was performing below top 10 then Schwartz would be on the hook for that failure. Marrone and Hackett are on the hook for having a way under performing offense relative to their average talent level. I honestly think the Bills offense should be rated bottom 10 in the league. That's a failure of coaching. These two simply don't have the smarts to coach offense in the NFL. Edited December 14, 2014 by 1billsfan
K D Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Hackett is terrible. Marrone is going to lose his job for sticking with him. They are both getting fired after next season the way things are going. If Marrone was smart he would bring in an experienced OC and that might buy him another couple of years. Marrone and Hackett belong in college
fansince88 Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 1) A monkey could coach our defense to a top 10 in the league because we have great players there. 2) Our offense has an average unit talent-wise and they were given every advantage possible (which I've provided straight facts on) and they failed miserably by almost every measure. That's coaching. If the defense was performing below top 10 then Schwartz would be on the hook for that failure. Marrone and Hackett are on the hook for having a way under performing offense relative to their average talent level. I honestly think the Bills offense should be rated bottom 10 in the league. That's a failure of coaching. These two simply don't have the smarts to coach offense in the NFL. Love how you left my last line out which reads as follows: All that said I never once said they should not can Hackett. Just said I would be surprised. The bold lines are just to point out my statement that you replied to. You cant say on one hand the talent has nothing to do with coaching than say coaching affects the talent. My original post was just that I think he Marrone and staff will remain as is next year. Not that I want it to remain as is. I could care less as long as we upgrade SOMEHOW at QB. If we don't we will be talking about how we need a new coach and OC next year. Need the talent on the field upgraded and stay consistently with the same monkeys on the sideline leading the same philosophy as now. We cant continue to change every two-three years to a different style of D and O and expect these players to succeed and mostly STAY IN BUFFALO! Hackett is terrible. Marrone is going to lose his job for sticking with him. They are both getting fired after next season the way things are going. If Marrone was smart he would bring in an experienced OC and that might buy him another couple of years. Marrone and Hackett belong in college This will blow 1billsfans mind. 100% agree with you! Marrone has to make this change this off season or he is gone after next year. But I dont think he will.
Dirtbag Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) First thing the Pegula's should do is fire the offensive part of the scouting staff, or whomever oversees that part of the scouting dept. If the Bills hadn't been able to trade up for Sammy the first two picks would have been Eric Ebron, Cyrus Kouandjio Some people, somewhere are giving Whaley some really bad advice. if our offensive woes are due to the scouting staff below whaley, then our defensive success should be attributed to them as well. and if our gm is deferring to scouts for all the tough decisions (especially regarding qb and the trading of first round draft picks) then he shouldn't be in that position. Edited December 14, 2014 by Dirtbag
hondo in seattle Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 I agree with the San-O's assessment of OC, OG and QB being our biggest needs. I just don't know how much will get resolved in the off season. I am pretty sure Whaley will either draft a guard or sign a FA guard - or both. QB is a bit of a dilemma since this isn't a good draft for QBs and I don't think a FA QB better than Orton will become available. Maybe we'll roll the dice with a later round draft pick as a developmental project OC is a tough one too because for Marrone to fire Hackett is like Marrone firing himself. Hackett is Marrone's protege and he's running Marrone's offensive system. (It's curious that the worst unit of the team is the unit run by the HC). If Hackett was fired (which I would find surprising), Marrone would probably then have to hire someone who probably wants more authority and autonomy than Marrone gave Hackett - someone with the freedom to install his own system and ideas.
CardinalScotts Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 good stuff, thanks for posting I don't think the Bills will have any trouble signing any new HC or OC they want, as the new owners are 100% dedicated to winning, and are some of the richest in the league. Marrone was hired by the old regime with Russ Brandon at the top of the food chain. The Bills can now afford one of the higher priced head coaches, like the Bill Belichick's, Pete Carroll's, Sean Payton's, Jim Harbaugh's, Tom Coughlin's of the world. Shoot, they could even lure "the Chin" out of the TV studio if they so desired. we would have fired Payton after he went 7-9 followed by 8-8 before the 13-11-13 and 11 win seasons.....we never let anyone build anything......it's what bad teams do
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