YoloinOhio Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Where there is smoke there is fire.... All those rumors of tension between Marrone and the front office in the summer have been followed up by Marrone refusing to play the 2nd round OL who Whaley must have thought highly of (even though the OL is a total joke), a refusal to play Mike Williams (who Whaley traded for), a refusal to play Bryce Brown until injuries forced it (again a guy Whaley traded for), and the edict that EJ will be benched (the guy Whaley "pulled the tabs on" to use Russ's term) Add all that in with Marrone's apparent management philosophy and you can see where there might be issues, especially since unlike Parcells or Belichick Marrone hasn't proven a damn thing. It's easy to work with/under St. Doug (which in his mind is the same thing). You just need to know two words" "Yes, sir." you are assuming a lot. Whaley evaluates the personnel too. Just because he added a player through the draft or trade or FA (it's his job) doesn't mean he insists they play no matter what. We don't know that he thinks Cyrus should play, or that Williams should play, or that Bryce brown should have played prior to CJ getting hurt. All three were acquired for depth. I'm sure he was hoping CK could start right away but alas - he could not, plain as day. If he insists guys should play just because he acquired them (btw the coaches are involved in drafting, it isn't like Marrone didn't want CK too) that is not going to work out with any HC. I would not be surprised if he was in agreement that he didn't want Brown active earlier this year because he has production qualifiers tied to the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 you are assuming a lot. Whaley evaluates the personnel too. Just because he added a player through the draft or trade or FA (it's his job) doesn't mean he insists they play no matter what. We don't know that he thinks Cyrus should play, or that Williams should play, or that Bryce brown should have played prior to CJ getting hurt. All three were acquired for depth. I'm sure he was hoping CK could start right away but alas - he could not, plain as day. If he insists guys should play just because he acquired them (btw the coaches are involved in drafting, it isn't like Marrone didn't want CK too) that is not going to work out with any HC. I would not be surprised if he was in agreement that he didn't want Brown active earlier this year because he has production qualifiers tied to the trade. True.... I just wonder where all the reports of discord came from if it was all just invented drama.... In the end, I like St. Doug's swagger. I am concerned that for an offensive coach the offense is still horrible and unimaginative two years in though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Again, that is not correct. Whaley was an integral part of the process in the coaching search and was glued to that room for the entire week that he, Brandon, Nix, and Overdorf were in Arizona. As Kelly the Dog and I said earlier, it's our guess that Whaley, given his strong Steelers ties, probably preferred Wisenhunt. Whaley and everyone else involved made a consensus decision though and Whaley has said that himself. Brandon, from his tenure as GM and throughout his role as president, never made a single football personnel decision on his own; from front office personnel, to scouting, to coaches and players. This further cements my theory that this is nothing more than an exercise in fan psychology: I LIKE Whaley, I HATE Marrone, therefore Whaley MUST hate Marrone, too and did the ENTIRE time. It's the only way fans can reconcile the conflict, it seems. I think your point about the Pegulas delineating Brandon's responsibilities is an excellent one. But it wasn't done in some punitive way. Brandon doesn't have to worry about the football operations side anymore and he can be free to focus where his expertise is best put to use 100% of the time. Makes perfect sense, he's damn good at it. And from what little I know of the man, I suspect he's relieved not to be spread so thin. GO BILLS!!! You make a lot of assumptions on the way to stating your "facts." First, we have no idea who anyone preferred, least of all Whaley who isn't a big talker. Second, this argument about Brandon's decision making is like saying France had a triumvirate in the late 18th century and everyone had a vote. Except Napoleon's was the biggest one. Brandon was the overriding decider on the HC, with Buddy and to a lesser extent Whaley being there as well. A well-known and credible poster (Simon) has stated this earlier in the thread. Third, given Russ Brandon's position of power, recent (circa Jan 1, 2013) promotion, and personality traits, I highly doubt he would (as should have been done) delegate the responsibility to a GM to hire a HC. After all, RW was the deciding individual on coaches (when it's typically GM's for most organizations). And Brandon learned from RW. Additionally, who would want Buddy Nix (imminently retiring or not) naming a HC.? Or trust that Doug Whaley would get it right the first time he was involved in a HC hiring? I cannot imagine the newly crowned Brandon would. Go back to February when it was leaked that the coaches were dissatisfied with the athletic trainers. Whaley didn't speak about it, but Brandon sure got everyone on the same page and the issue magically disappeared. People have forgotten that rift because 1 month later Mr. Wilson passed away. No one loses responsibility and takes it as a good sign. Anyone who's worked in management despises losing power, which Brandon just did apparently over football operations. Moreover, it sounds (and I'm speculating) that he's trying to weasel his way into the owner's ear in order to have more control than just being team president. Why wouldn't someone want to reclaim in an indirect way what they previously had before the new ownership? I won't belabor this point anymore because A) understanding management personalities with career-minded objectives is impossible to some here and B) it's not worth it. The Bills are winning 40% of their games since 2000 and people are applauding them, particularly the OBD lifers responsible. If that's not mindbendingly ridiculous I don't know what is. Unless of course winning is priority 2, which I'd say it became these past 14 year or so. Edited December 12, 2014 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 True.... I just wonder where all the reports of discord came from if it was all just invented drama.... In the end, I like St. Doug's swagger. I am concerned that for an offensive coach the offense is still horrible and unimaginative two years in though. All hat with no cattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 All hat with no cattle. I'm 50/50 on St. Doug. IF his team can get 3 W's to finish 10-6 then obviously he stays. If they go 1-2 with the only W being the Raiders, I will want him out. IF they go 1-2 with the only W being New England* (thus putting a major wrench in their playoff run) he will be my hero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I have nothing against Brandon and would be happy if he stayed. That said, the above is parrotted out a lot on this board as if he is a genius for regionalizing. One, I just have to take the narrative that it was his idea, which is fine, but secondly, it is just common sense and a plan set forth by Green Bay. Others on the board know him pretty well apparently and say he is great at his job and I take there knowledge seriously. I really just shake my head when people bring up the regionalization aspect of what he has done as if it was a paradigm shift in marketing, it was not at the time and it is not now. That said, he certainly did it effectively. If you factor in the quality of the product he was marketing he should be given even more credit for accomplishing what he did. A generation of fans have not witnessed quality football. Yet under that burdensome backdrop I credit him for doing a marvelous job under challenging circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 All hat with no cattle. The 2014 Bills have, with a ****ty QB, managed to stay relevant through 14 weeks playing one of the hardest schedules in the NFL. I don't care if you like the man or not, he's doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 The 2014 Bills have, with a ****ty QB, managed to stay relevant through 14 weeks playing one of the hardest schedules in the NFL. I don't care if you like the man or not, he's doing something right. Bruce Arians says :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 You make a lot of assumptions on the way to stating your "facts." First, we have no idea who anyone preferred, least of all Whaley who isn't a big talker. Second, this argument about Brandon's decision making is like saying France had a triumvirate in the late 18th century and everyone had a vote. Except Napoleon's was the biggest one. Brandon was the overriding decider on the HC, with Buddy and to a lesser extent Whaley being there as well. A well-known and credible poster (Simon) has stated this earlier in the thread. Third, given Russ Brandon's position of power, recent (circa Jan 1, 2013) promotion, and personality traits, I highly doubt he would (as should have been done) delegate the responsibility to a GM to hire a HC. After all, RW was the deciding individual on coaches (when it's typically GM's for most organizations). And Brandon learned from RW. Additionally, who would want Buddy Nix (imminently retiring or not) naming a HC.? Or trust that Doug Whaley would get it right the first time he was involved in a HC hiring? I cannot imagine the newly crowned Brandon would. Go back to February when it was leaked that the coaches were dissatisfied with the athletic trainers. Whaley didn't speak about it, but Brandon sure got everyone on the same page and the issue magically disappeared. People have forgotten that rift because 1 month later Mr. Wilson passed away. No one loses responsibility and takes it as a good sign. Anyone who's worked in management despises losing power, which Brandon just did apparently over football operations. Moreover, it sounds (and I'm speculating) that he's trying to weasel his way into the owner's ear in order to have more control than just being team president. Why wouldn't someone want to reclaim in an indirect way what they previously had before the new ownership? I won't belabor this point anymore because A) understanding management personalities with career-minded objectives is impossible to some here and B) it's not worth it. The Bills are winning 40% of their games since 2000 and people are applauding them, particularly the OBD lifers responsible. If that's not mindbendingly ridiculous I don't know what is. Unless of course winning is priority 2, which I'd say it became these past 14 year or so. From what I have heard, for all intents and purposes, Brandon fired himself from the GM role. He knew he in over his head. It probably saved his good reputation and career. I'm sure he has strong feelings about players and coaches and GMs. Hell,you and I do. And he has a big ego and I'm sure he voices his opinions on all matters. But that doesn't mean he "makes" football decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Bruce Arians says :lol: :lol: The Cardinals can't run the ball for a damn. But they've got an elite receiver and quarterbacks who consistently push the ball down field. Bruce Arians locked in COTY like six weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 The Cardinals can't run the ball for a damn. But they've got an elite receiver and quarterbacks who consistently push the ball down field. Bruce Arians locked in COTY like six weeks ago. Exactly my point because they have a real NFL coach with pedigree. Drew Stanton, Ryan Lindley, and Logan Thomas are his QBs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) If you factor in the quality of the product he was marketing he should be given even more credit for accomplishing what he did. A generation of fans have not witnessed quality football. Yet under that burdensome backdrop I credit him for doing a marvelous job under challenging circumstances. Let's call it what it is. The NFL's popularity as a whole has exploded and RWS provides a lawless party atmosphere at cheap prices. It has almost nothing to do with "marketing". From what I have heard, for all intents and purposes, Brandon fired himself from the GM role. He knew he in over his head. It probably saved his good reputation and career. I'm sure he has strong feelings about players and coaches and GMs. Hell,you and I do. And he has a big ego and I'm sure he voices his opinions on all matters. But that doesn't mean he "makes" football decisions. Brandon was at the lead of the last few coaching searches. That is the most important football decision that exists Edited December 12, 2014 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Exactly my point because they have a real NFL coach with pedigree. Drew Stanton, Ryan Lindley, and Logan Thomas are his QBs? A real NFL coach. How many real NFL coaches of Bruce Arians-caliber are there in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I completely read that wrong., my apologies. I thought Woods said "wasn't"not "was". I guess because I sceam "throw the ball down field" at my television every Sunday I expected to read "wasn't". Not completely on you, Chris. I had to read it twice because the article, even though it says "in the game plan" goes trucking along like there was something wrong with the game plan. It's befuddling. Perhaps intentionally so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 A real NFL coach. How many real NFL coaches of Bruce Arians-caliber are there in the NFL? WTH does your question even mean? That we should be satisfied with Marrone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 WTH does your question even mean? That we should be satisfied with Marrone? Can you just answer the question please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) If the qb hits on a few long passes it will bode very for the qb. The HC and offensive staff will predictably be effusive in their praise of the qb who exhibited good judgment. I haven't read the Sully column but it's not surprising that the coach prefers quick forming passing plays because the OL is not adept at pass blocking. You also have to consider that Orton's arm is not too strong. When your qb has limitations it's not surprising that the coaches adjust to the limitations. John, we have already established that I am an idiot that can't read. I miss read the article. Can I get on put probation for self deprecation? Edited December 12, 2014 by chris heff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Can you just answer the question please? Your question is immaterial. Marrone is a bottom tier, run of the mill coach who's not good enough. That's all I need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Your question is immaterial. Marrone is a bottom tier, run of the mill coach who's not good enough. That's all I need to know. It's really not, and your constant deflection tells me all I need to know. I'm surprised you aren't shaking your fist because we didn't pick a HoF QB in the 6th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 John, we have already established that I am an idiot that can't read. I miss read the article. Can I get on put probation for self deprecation? double secret probation! And you are hereby banned from linking Sullivan articles unless it is to mock them! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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