reddogblitz Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 Agreed 100%. Perfectly stated. Notice Denver and NE are in the most penalized category, so that pretty much takes away the argument that the league is trying to "massage" games to help them win, doesn't it? We are losing games because of bad coaching, mistakes, lack of discipline, inadequate QB play and overall bad offensive execution. A couple of points: It's not the quantity of the calls, it's the quality. How many times this year has Tom Brady or Peyton Manning been called for intentional grounding in the EZ with a WR nearby resulting in points? How many times have the Broncos or Patsies have fumbles recovered in the EZ overturned by review when NO ONE else thinks it's an incomplete pass except Walt Coleman? I don't think it's the sole reason the Bills lose obviously. However it is an element. Coach Marrone and Coach Hackett should open up the offense and try to score as many points as humanly possible. That way when the mysterious flags appear it won't kill us. Easier said than done I know, but come on, the Cheese suck on D. If we play that Dick Jauron/Doug Marrone style close game, we'll lost because mysterious late game flags will appear. You can count on it.
CodeMonkey Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 Do you believe Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, etc got different officiating? I do. Do I think Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Bill Belichick, Don Shula, Bill Walsh, Joe Montana, etc. also received different officiating? Yes. Jim Kelly, Marv Levy, Andre Reed, Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas, OJ Simpson?
MarkAF43 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 I have issues with a couple of your points. The concept of certain teams being held to different officiating standards is not one just held by small groupings of fans and not limited to Bills fans. Our team is not an elite team yet, but it is a team on the rise. Confidence and swagger comes from winning and winning is hard already enough in the professional game without giving Peyton Manning bonus shots in the red zone. I also find it odd that Peyton threw two interceptions that were run back a considerable way and both run backs were negated by penalties (neither of which were shown in replay). The refs are people who probably are fans and are not immune to the whole marketing of brand. I do not think the Commish is sending out memos on which teams should win but I do think the cash register is fuller when certain teams win. I've never stated this. My entire point on the officiating are the Bills fans who are adamant it's a screw job against the Bills. So because they didn't show the replay means the penalties didn't happen? that's not logical.
Clippers of Nfl Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 *Pat and Den get penalized TO EVEN IT OUT. Refs cannot make it too noticeable. It cannot be 100 yards penalty against bills 0 penalty yards vs *pat. If you really look, the unfairness is there. I've watched games with a denver fan and even he admits that they're being favored. It happens people. I could agree that it's not gambling related. Maybe like they say it's phsycological or whatever, but unfairness does happen. The popular teams get favored. If the *pats and broncos start sucking badly, THEY will lose the favoritism.
MarkAF43 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 *Pat and Den get penalized TO EVEN IT OUT. Refs cannot make it too noticeable. It cannot be 100 yards penalty against bills 0 penalty yards vs *pat. If you really look, the unfairness is there. I've watched games with a denver fan and even he admits that they're being favored. It happens people. I could agree that it's not gambling related. Maybe like they say it's phsycological or whatever, but unfairness does happen. The popular teams get favored. If the *pats and broncos start sucking badly, THEY will lose the favoritism. The bolded invalidates the rest of your argument. How can you sit there and say they have to even it out when those 2 teams have been called for MORE penalties than the BIlls? No logic at all.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 The bolded invalidates the rest of your argument. How can you sit there and say they have to even it out when those 2 teams have been called for MORE penalties than the BIlls? No logic at all. He's got the magic discerning eye. They can't get this by him. No Sir!
Prickly Pete Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Jim Kelly, Marv Levy, Andre Reed, Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas, OJ Simpson? Yep, them too. Though, mostly OJ. He is the only one that was really on the stardom level of Brady, Manning, Montana. The coaches are a little different. It's more about their power in the league. I'm not sure Levy wielded that kind of power, like Shula, Belichick, and Walsh did. Edited December 12, 2014 by HoF Watkins
MarkAF43 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 He's got the magic discerning eye. They can't get this by him. No Sir! I'm the first to admit the officiating is not what it used to be. I don't see how this is done to favor certain teams and help them win. There is far too much for the league to lose by getting caught knowing their officials influence outcomes of games.
Fan in San Diego Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 The bolded invalidates the rest of your argument. How can you sit there and say they have to even it out when those 2 teams have been called for MORE penalties than the BIlls? No logic at all. Its penalties at the most crucial time that can affect the outcome. Especially on third down. I would like to see how many 3rd down in the 4th qtr the bills get compared to Pats and Brocos
MarkAF43 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 Its penalties at the most crucial time that can affect the outcome. Especially on third down. I would like to see how many 3rd down in the 4th qtr the bills get compared to Pats and Brocos That may prove the point some of these folks are trying to make, but so far the responses are just that it "seems" to be that way.
Fan in San Diego Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 That may prove the point some of these folks are trying to make, but so far the responses are just that it "seems" to be that way. Also how many PI calls on the Bills, Pats Broncos on the secondary unit of each team.
Prickly Pete Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 I'm the first to admit the officiating is not what it used to be. I don't see how this is done to favor certain teams and help them win. There is far too much for the league to lose by getting caught knowing their officials influence outcomes of games. I don't think that it's openly directed to the officials. I don't think they are necessarily trying to change outcomes. For instance, when a team is falling way behind, the officials are way more inclined to penalize the team with big lead, if the opportunity presents itself. I see make up calls all the time. For instance, there were the consecutive personal fouls called early in a recent Bills game. First, one on the Bills, then the next play one on the other team (I forget which game it was). It was obvious.
MarkAF43 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 I don't think that it's openly directed to the officials. I don't think they are necessarily trying to change outcomes. For instance, when a team is falling way behind, the officials are way more inclined to penalize the team with big lead, if the opportunity presents itself. I see make up calls all the time. For instance, there were the consecutive personal fouls called early in a recent Bills game. First, one on the Bills, then the next play one on the other team (I forget which game it was). It was obvious. It was the Browns game and both penalties were clear penalties, AWilliams said something he shouldn't have said to Josh Gordon, and then after Gordon got up after a catch he spun the ball towards the Bills defended, a clear violation of the rules, no make up calls there. Completely legit and correct calls.
Prickly Pete Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 It was the Browns game and both penalties were clear penalties, AWilliams said something he shouldn't have said to Josh Gordon, and then after Gordon got up after a catch he spun the ball towards the Bills defended, a clear violation of the rules, no make up calls there. Completely legit and correct calls. I don't believe the 2nd one would have been called without the first. The officials were using those penalties to "set the tone".
MarkAF43 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 I don't believe the 2nd one would have been called without the first. The officials were using those penalties to "set the tone". but see, thats an opinion. there is nothing in that rooted in fact. So people can have their opinion on it, but the facts don't support it in the example you provided.
Prickly Pete Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) but see, thats an opinion. there is nothing in that rooted in fact. So people can have their opinion on it, but the facts don't support it in the example you provided. Perhaps, but it is also an opinion that both calls were "completely legit and correct calls". It's true, I haven't been logging all the instances that I feel there has been a "makeup" call. I suppose in an NHL game, when there is a 5 on 3 power play, it's probably my imagination that the refs are quicker to whistle a penalty on the team with the advantage? Edited December 12, 2014 by HoF Watkins
MarkAF43 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 Perhaps, but it is also an opinion that both calls were "completely legit and correct calls". It's true, I haven't been logging all the instances that I feel there has been a "makeup" call. The examples you cited aren't my opinion. they're based on facts and what is in the NFL rulebook. it's not an opinion, it's what the league has determined is a penalty
Prickly Pete Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) The examples you cited aren't my opinion. they're based on facts and what is in the NFL rulebook. it's not an opinion, it's what the league has determined is a penalty Some say that a penalty could be called every play. That is one of the gray areas, what to let go, and what to call. That is one way the officials can influence a game, no? Are they consistent? I don't think so. I think the teams, coaches, players, and circumstances influence their decisions.... Edited December 12, 2014 by HoF Watkins
Prickly Pete Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) I also firmly believe that the "incomplete pass" call on the Manziel fumble was a case of the officials wanting to keep the game competitive, instead of a blow out. I think they were very conscious of the fact that Johnny Football was on the field, and had a chance to "keep the game interesting", keeping viewers on the game. I can't prove it, but it's not far fetched. I wouldn't consider that trying to help the Browns win, but instead, keeping the game competitive. I think that happens frequently. Edited December 12, 2014 by HoF Watkins
What a Tuel Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) I've never stated this. My entire point on the officiating are the Bills fans who are adamant it's a screw job against the Bills. So because they didn't show the replay means the penalties didn't happen? that's not logical. I think I read somewhere that on one of the run backs, a bronco player chop blocked one of ours. So one of our players got pissed which was the unnecessary roughness penalty or whatever. Should our players display discipline? Absolutely. The point is though, that the Denver player wasn't called on the chop block. How often are they not called? It is openly admitted that the NFL is widely inconsistent. You say our players should show discipline? Maybe they are just as exasperated at the inconsistent officiating as us? Maybe they are getting frustrated because football is a rain of yellow that widely affects the outcome of games. Edited December 12, 2014 by What a Tuel
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