Dems Endanger Military Lives By Releasing "Torture Report"

[Deranged Rhino]

I'm just not so sure releasing makes much of a difference. I think any president, in that briefing room after 9/11 gives the nod for getting info the armed forces needs, even of it breaks rules. To think otherwise is naive, IMO.

 

Completely and utterly disagree that any Commander In Chief makes that call. A President is supposed to be above the baser instincts because the Presidency isn't a man but a position. Regardless, W isn't the target. This is bigger than W, it's about where this country is going in the future. We can only know by examining the past and learning from mistakes that we've made.

 

Releasing the documents makes every difference in the world. It shows we're NOT a police state. Keeping them in the secret would be doubling down on a fundamentally anti-American ideal.

 

Big !@#$ing deal. We shoved water up the noses and down the throats of some demi-!@#$s.

These !@#$ wads behead innocent people, slaughter children with impunity and bury alive women and children all in the name of Allah.

Their god is a porcine cannibal in my view. They behave like petulant adolescents that are armed with RPGs and AK47s.

The world would be better off if they were all dead.

 

You cannot defeat them by going down to their level. Which was the tragic mistake made and one we'll be paying for as a nation for generations to come.

[blzrul]

Why shouldn't this be made public? Using the same logic I've seen for situations ilke Ferguson: "hey if you weren't doing something wrong, and you played by the rules, you wouldn't be dead." If the CIA wasn't doing terrible things, there would be no report and we wouldn't have to have this discussion. If your hands are clean, what's the big deal?

 

Ah, but our hands are not clean. That's the big deal.

 

Torture is un-America and is not to be tolerated. Hence you should be angry at the folks who betrayed the bright and shiny American ideal by engaging in torture. Not only does it violate what America stands for but it violates an international code we agreed to support. So anger should be directed at those who perpetrated the crime.

 

But of course certain people will find a way to justify torture (which we all knew was happening anyway) and then scream bloody murder when we're called savages and our people are tortured. If you're not ashamed of it then why make a fuss? And if you're not ashamed of it what's the matter with you?

 

Funny how principles are always to be applied to OTHERS when it's inconvenient for US. If people want to take the low road, go ahead. They'll just end up with the bottom dwellers.

[IDBillzFan]

There is NO reason, NOT ONE, to keep this secret. All it would do is compound the issue.

 

Fine. Then do it right. Interview the CIA members who were cited as being in charge of torture. Make it a bi-partisan effort that interviews everyone, and have that bipartisan group decide what should and should NOT be released to the public.

 

But DON'T spend $50M on a second-hand partisan report designed exclusively to be released because your party needs a way to look better than the party that just beat the ever-loving schitsnot out you in the mid-terms.

 

I'm sure you're askingy yourself, WHY should we NOT do it the way the Dems just did it? Easy.

 

Because we live in a country that's supposed to be better than this.

Because we live in a republic where we have a right to know what the state is doing, especially with our tax dollars.

Because the only way to get past mistakes is to be honest about them.

[Nanker]

Bull ****. We haven't seen an enemy like this since the Nazi werwolves and the Japanese fanatics in WWII.

This least generation wouldn't have stood a chance at beating those fanatics who would rather die than surrender.

[Wacka]

If we needed to hook up car batteries to the nuts of capturd terrorists, I woukd have said "Where do you want me to park?"

[Deranged Rhino]

Fine. Then do it right. Interview the CIA members who were cited as being in charge of torture. Make it a bi-partisan effort that interviews everyone, and have that bipartisan group decide what should and should NOT be released to the public.

 

But DON'T spend $50M on a second-hand partisan report designed exclusively to be released because your party needs a way to look better than the party that just beat the ever-loving schitsnot out you in the mid-terms.

 

I'm sure you're askingy yourself, WHY should we NOT do it the way the Dems just did it? Easy.

 

You don't think Hillary is going to take a hit with these? Your concern about the political look of this is hackish. This is bigger than a pissing match between political parties. The contents of the report, regardless of who wrote it, should outrage you as an American -- or at least sadden you. It's a dark and depressing chapter of our country's history and the only way to get past it is to be honest about it.

 

Bull ****. We haven't seen an enemy like this since the Nazi werwolves and the Japanese fanatics in WWII.

This least generation wouldn't have stood a chance at beating those fanatics who would rather die than surrender.

 

You're insane.

[Gene Frenkle]

Bull ****. We haven't seen an enemy like this since the Nazi werwolves and the Japanese fanatics in WWII.

This least generation wouldn't have stood a chance at beating those fanatics who would rather die than surrender.

Quick, I think I just saw some kids on your lawn!

[DC Tom]

Bull ****. We haven't seen an enemy like this since the Nazi werwolves and the Japanese fanatics in WWII.

This least generation wouldn't have stood a chance at beating those fanatics who would rather die than surrender.

 

Oh, !@#$. Not the !@#$ing Nazi werewolves again...

[IDBillzFan]

You don't think Hillary is going to take a hit with these? Your concern about the political look of this is hackish. This is bigger than a pissing match between political parties. The contents of the report, regardless of who wrote it, should outrage you as an American -- or at least sadden you. It's a dark and depressing chapter of our country's history and the only way to get past it is to be honest about it.

 

Oh, please. You're holier-than-thou outrage at a half-assed report about information we've known for years is just a waste of everyone's time, not to mention $50M dollars.

 

If you genuinely believe such a report is important, you would likewise believe that THIS report was the wrong way to do it because it did not serve to inform, but to inflame and blame...while the world is already on hyperdrive inflame and blame mode because every day is name a racist day.

 

Doing something half-assed and suggesting it's good enough for you is the lazy man's way out, and you don't strike me as a lazy man. But I've been wrong before.

[Alaska Darin]

Those people don't need a reason to blow stuff up. Not releasing this out of fear is almost as bad as the paranoia that got us into this mess to begin with.

They use it as a recruiting tool. It's the equivalent of "hands up, don't shoot". There are ways to stop this within the government without this garbage. The Democrats, as usual, are too stupid to use any of them.

[birdog1960]

Because we live in a country that's supposed to be better than this.

Because we live in a republic where we have a right to know what the state is doing, especially with our tax dollars.

Because the only way to get past mistakes is to be honest about them.

 

There is NO reason, NOT ONE, to keep this secret. All it would do is compound the issue.

agreed. we are supposed to be a nation of laws, a nation with principles, ethics, morals…those virtues are worth fighting for even if frequently found to be wanting. the report is an effort to jump start our national morality. unfortunately, we have many barbarians and moral relativists in our country as evidenced by the comments of many here. the argument that we should be satisfied with the lowest common denominator of ethical national behavior re torture is truly sad and discouraging.

if it wasn't suspect and embarrassing behavior then why all the secrecy in the first place? why not just admit and publicize these supposedly "reasonable and effective" methods from the start?

 

They use it as a recruiting tool. It's the equivalent of "hands up, don't shoot". There are ways to stop this within the government without this garbage. The Democrats, as usual, are too stupid to use any of them.

then it should never have been done in the first place.

 

your argument is that we weren't good enough liars. that's truly cynical and depressing.

Edited December 10, 2014 by birdog1960

[Alaska Darin]

agreed. we are supposed to be a nation of laws, a nation with principles, ethics, morals…those virtues are worth fighting for even if frequently found to be wanting. the report is an effort to jump start our national morality. unfortunately, we have many barbarians and moral relativists in our country as evidenced by the comments of many here. the argument that we should be satisfied with the lowest common denominator of ethical national behavior re torture is truly sad and discouraging.

if it wasn't suspect and embarrassing behavior then why all the secrecy in the first place? why not just admit and publicize these supposedly "reasonable and effective" methods from the start?

 

then it should never have been done in the first place.

 

your argument is that we weren't good enough liars. that's truly cynical and depressing.

The world is an imperfect place filled with humans. The huge, overbearing government we have is the product of your politics, not mine.

[birdog1960]

The world is an imperfect place filled with humans. The huge, overbearing government we have is the product of your politics, not mine.

this is slippery slope that ends with no right or wrong, no virtue, no empathy, no concern, no horizon. it leads to the abyss and to eventual annihilation. even seasoned cia operatives on the scene were outraged by the acts and some asked for reassignment per the report. they were told that their comments weren't helpful. this is no ones model of governing except for that of madmen.

[Deranged Rhino]

They use it as a recruiting tool. It's the equivalent of "hands up, don't shoot". There are ways to stop this within the government without this garbage. The Democrats, as usual, are too stupid to use any of them.

 

Hiding it, or denying it, is far more useful as a recruiting tool. How we operate as a nation shouldn't be dictated to us by our enemies. I'm for full disclosure on this subject.

 

By hook or by crook I should ad.

[LeviF]

You cannot defeat them by going down to their level. Which was the tragic mistake made and one we'll be paying for as a nation for generations to come.

 

The tragic mistake is that we didn't cut this **** off at the root, and systematically destroy them as we did with enemies in the past. That's the one that MY generation will be paying for.

 

The benefits of all this tolerance and play-nice politics are being reaped in places like the UK and Sweden. Anyone care to update us on how that's going?

[Deranged Rhino]

The tragic mistake is that we didn't cut this **** off at the root, and systematically destroy them as we did with enemies in the past. That's the one that MY generation will be paying for.

 

The benefits of all this tolerance and play-nice politics are being reaped in places like the UK and Sweden. Anyone care to update us on how that's going?

 

Pretty certain we're in the same generation. And I think you're wrong. This isn't about tolerance. It's about right and wrong. Either we're a nation that stands by its ideals or we're not.

[birdog1960]

at least cameron gets it (or at the very least, says the right thing): “Torture is wrong, torture is always wrong. Those of us who want to see a safer and more secure world, who want to see extremism defeated, we won’t succeed if we lose our moral authority, if we lose the things that make or systems work and countries successful,” the prime minister said. from today's guardian. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/cia-torture-report-released

Edited December 10, 2014 by birdog1960

[Keukasmallies]

Pretty certain we're in the same generation. And I think you're wrong. This isn't about tolerance. It's about right and wrong. Either we're a nation that stands by its ideals or we're not.

 

If we stood by our ideals, we'd (read POTUS) give more than a wink and a nod to the Constitution in matters such as immigration. Difficult times, such as an attack on the home land, call for difficult measures. It's easy to take the moral high ground years removed from the circumstances that gave rise to the extremes you decry.

 

Maybe we should send an emissary to carry our respect for our enemies' and their struggles (read Hill'ry's comments on the subject from earlier in the week). We could hand carry a copy of today's release of our "transgressions" and beg their forgiveness. As a gesture of our sincerity we could stop serving pork in restaurants nationwide.

[birdog1960]

If we stood by our ideals, we'd (read POTUS) give more than a wink and a nod to the Constitution in matters such as immigration. Difficult times, such as an attack on the home land, call for difficult measures. It's easy to take the moral high ground years removed from the circumstances that gave rise to the extremes you decry.

 

Maybe we should send an emissary to carry our respect for our enemies' and their struggles (read Hill'ry's comments on the subject from earlier in the week). We could hand carry a copy of today's release of our "transgressions" and beg their forgiveness. As a gesture of our sincerity we could stop serving pork in restaurants nationwide.

i'll bet none of this is easy for john mccain. he's probably in the best position re experience to comment of anyone in congress, the white house or the supreme court. i think his opinion deserves serious consideration: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/John-Mccain-Speech-Senate-Republican-CIA-Torture-Report/383589/

[Deranged Rhino]

If we stood by our ideals, we'd (read POTUS) give more than a wink and a nod to the Constitution in matters such as immigration.

 

This is bigger than politics. I'm not in it for a witch hunt.

 

Difficult times, such as an attack on the home land, call for difficult measures. It's easy to take the moral high ground years removed from the circumstances that gave rise to the extremes you decry.

 

All the more reason to release this. The only way to avoid mistakes in the future is to learn from those in the past.

 

I'm not taking a moral high ground... the fact that arguing against torture is even being called "taking the moral high ground" shows how far down the slope we've already slid! Think about it. Holy crap... think about what you're saying without the political filter for a moment. I'm as real world as it gets when it comes to matters of national defense and security, I really am. And I'm not an idealist who thinks every bit of intelligence gathering can be accomplished within the letter of the law -- but this was a program signed off and approved by the state that goes against everything we're supposed to stand for in this country.