GunnerBill Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) I get $88 plus mileage and would assume his is somewhere in the same range but you are correct. Some of these games are more than an hour away and the coaches/parents abuse is out of control. Coaches will yell at me all game long about every little call but as soon as the final whistle blows "great job ref." I have had parents threaten me, follow me to my car, etc... Off topic but my favorite story from this year: Before the game (I ref soccer) coach says to me "we had a parent meeting to discuss with them not being as abusive to the officials so they shouldn't be a problem" me "wow they get carried away huh? what is your record?" (thinking that they are a highly competitive team) coach "1-8" During the game one parent in particular is yelling all game long "offsides that's offsides" ALL. GAME. LONG. son to mother "mom that isn't offsides" mother "I don't even know what offsides is but if everyone else is going to yell for it I am too" :lol: I have played and coached soccer at a good semi-pro standard in the UK. I also reffed a little bit at junior standard and I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation that all games are concluded at the final whistle. That certainly isn't in the laws of association football (to give it its proper name). If a referee has erred in law then normally the losing team has a right of appeal. The difference in soccer is that there are far fewer areas where it is possible to err in law. Most things are decision based on a referee's interpretation. So - is that a penalty? No or yes.... the ref can be wrong but ultimately it as an interpretation question and so any attempt to appeal would be dismissed. However, has the referee allowed a team to play with 12 players for example... that is an error in law and the losing team would be successful in having a replay ordered. I coached in a scenario where we had a penalty shoot out to decide a cup game. Our team had a man sent off in normal time so come the shoot out the laws state that the team still having 11 players must nominate a player not to participate in the shoot out. Normally this wouldn't even matter because few penalty shoot outs go as far as the 10th penalty per team. However, this one did. And their 10th different outfield player stepped up to take their 10th and ultimately the decisive penalty. I immediately alerted the referee to the fact that he had made an error. He argued that the goalkeeper hadn't taken a penalty and therefore the law had not been breached. He was incorrect. The goalkeeper had been in goal for all 10 of our penalties and therefore had participated in the shoot out. We appealed and the game was replayed because he had erred in law. It is harder in American Football because so much of it is application of the laws of the game rather than interpretation of laws of the game. But it sounds here as though they have appealed and the governing body have turned down the appeal. I am not familiar with US law but to get the decision of a governing body overturned in a law court in the UK would be possible but very difficult and would require you to satisfy the court that the governing body had not just made an incorrect or unfair decision, but that they had made a deicison that no reasonable adjudicating body could possibly have made given the facts of the case. EDIT: And yes I am a qualified (though not practicing) lawyer. Edited December 10, 2014 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Is there a statute of limitations on bad calls? When I was in little league football we once lost a game when the other team got two defensive offsides penalties in a row, the refs walked them both off, then MEASURED for a first down and we came up a foot short. I want to sue and get that game back! The emotional scars have never left me! That's pretty funny if it actually happened - can just picture all the players and coaches and parents going bonkers as they did it.... Sure it sucks to have lost that way, but geez esp when you're in high school you have disappointments and life lessons and move on from them (Uncle Rico notwithstanding). Eventually they just become stories later in life that you talk about with your buddies at reunions and at the bar when people are in town. Also, put yourself in the shoes of the kids themselves. Say they were to win the lawsuit, and actually replay the last minute. Wouldn't you feel like an idiot for even being there? And if you 'won', how hollow and honestly embarrassing would that win be? It would be like advancing in the playoffs due to the tuck rule or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 That's pretty funny if it actually happened - can just picture all the players and coaches and parents going bonkers as they did it.... Sure it sucks to have lost that way, but geez esp when you're in high school you have disappointments and life lessons and move on from them (Uncle Rico notwithstanding). Eventually they just become stories later in life that you talk about with your buddies at reunions and at the bar when people are in town. Also, put yourself in the shoes of the kids themselves. Say they were to win the lawsuit, and actually replay the last minute. Wouldn't you feel like an idiot for even being there? And if you 'won', how hollow and honestly embarrassing would that win be? It would be like advancing in the playoffs due to the tuck rule or something... Yep it really happened and good point about the kids. How great would it be if they took the play to court, won the lawsuit, got to replay the last minute, won the game, and for the rest of their lives every time they told that story the person they told it to said, "You're everything that's wrong with the world! What a wuss! That's terrible! You should be embarrassed! God I hate that!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortlandiaEast Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This has been a good read. Good contributions to both the for and against sides. I agree that it is extreme to take an incorrect ref call to court. Ref's enforce calls incorrectly all the time. If the court is smart, they will throw this out as to not set a precedent, because if they hear the case and rule to make the change... god help both the sporting and legal world. Courts will be hear 100's of cases (hyperbole) with the minutia of HS sporting events... In my opinion, this is not what our legal system was meant for. But those saying they are suing to get "their way" on the call... I think that is unfair, as their way happens to be the correct call that should have been made (at least thats how the article/rule book read). Again, great conversation on both sides. While is sucks the big one to be on the receiving end of a game deciding call, sometimes you have to think about the cost (time, effort, and $) benefit (justice?) of the fight in front of you and put your resources toward something more meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Don't like an outcome? SUE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I have played and coached soccer at a good semi-pro standard in the UK. I also reffed a little bit at junior standard and I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation that all games are concluded at the final whistle. That certainly isn't in the laws of association football (to give it its proper name). There is certainly room for protest but I have never or heard of one happening successfully. Especially in HS sports where there is a lack of video evidence for anything. I can't imagine this getting overturned. It certainly appears to be the wrong application of the rule so it will be interesting to see if it does indeed get reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Is there a statute of limitations on bad calls? When I was in little league football we once lost a game when the other team got two defensive offsides penalties in a row, the refs walked them both off, then MEASURED for a first down and we came up a foot short. I want to sue and get that game back! The emotional scars have never left me! You have to get a restraining order, and mess up schedules for the rest of the playoffs and the winter sports for the division too. Too late, friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Too bad the Bills didn't do this for The Forward Lateral against Tennessee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I have played and coached soccer at a good semi-pro standard in the UK. I also reffed a little bit at junior standard and I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation that all games are concluded at the final whistle. That certainly isn't in the laws of association football (to give it its proper name). If a referee has erred in law then normally the losing team has a right of appeal. The difference in soccer is that there are far fewer areas where it is possible to err in law. Most things are decision based on a referee's interpretation. So - is that a penalty? No or yes.... the ref can be wrong but ultimately it as an interpretation question and so any attempt to appeal would be dismissed. However, has the referee allowed a team to play with 12 players for example... that is an error in law and the losing team would be successful in having a replay ordered. I coached in a scenario where we had a penalty shoot out to decide a cup game. Our team had a man sent off in normal time so come the shoot out the laws state that the team still having 11 players must nominate a player not to participate in the shoot out. Normally this wouldn't even matter because few penalty shoot outs go as far as the 10th penalty per team. However, this one did. And their 10th different outfield player stepped up to take their 10th and ultimately the decisive penalty. I immediately alerted the referee to the fact that he had made an error. He argued that the goalkeeper hadn't taken a penalty and therefore the law had not been breached. He was incorrect. The goalkeeper had been in goal for all 10 of our penalties and therefore had participated in the shoot out. We appealed and the game was replayed because he had erred in law. It is harder in American Football because so much of it is application of the laws of the game rather than interpretation of laws of the game. But it sounds here as though they have appealed and the governing body have turned down the appeal. I am not familiar with US law but to get the decision of a governing body overturned in a law court in the UK would be possible but very difficult and would require you to satisfy the court that the governing body had not just made an incorrect or unfair decision, but that they had made a deicison that no reasonable adjudicating body could possibly have made given the facts of the case. EDIT: And yes I am a qualified (though not practicing) lawyer. the real question, even if they can do that..... why would you ever want to do that? especially with amateur sports, teenagers, minimally compensated refs that are often there for the love of the game.... unless the guy was paid off, i just think it does more damage than good to open up refs to facing court scrutiny if the miscall a play/penalty. especially at low levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 You have to get a restraining order, and mess up schedules for the rest of the playoffs and the winter sports for the division too. Too late, friend. Yup, and screw things up for hundreds of kids. What happens if the delay causes a different team to lose it's starting QB because his family has vacation plans? Do they need to wait till he gets back? Can he parents sue for the lost money on the vacation if they don't go? Come on now, we have to 'get it right'!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 the real question, even if they can do that..... why would you ever want to do that? especially with amateur sports, teenagers, minimally compensated refs that are often there for the love of the game.... unless the guy was paid off, i just think it does more damage than good to open up refs to facing court scrutiny if the miscall a play/penalty. especially at low levels. And that is a reasonable point. I'm not in favour of the courts deciding sporting contests as a general principle. And when we appealed the penalty shoot out outcome it was because the referee was an obnoxious idiot who refused to accept he had got it wrong. I told him immediately on the night and said "listen let's be reasonable we can all forget that last penalty happened make the goakeeper take a penalty the chances are he scores and we can all go home happy." He went all Mike Periera on me and asked how a "know nothing" like me dare question him. I wasn't even that bothered about losing the game and indeed made sure we lost the replay because I felt for the opposition. I just wanted that idiot shown up for what he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yup, and screw things up for hundreds of kids. What happens if the delay causes a different team to lose it's starting QB because his family has vacation plans? Do they need to wait till he gets back? Can he parents sue for the lost money on the vacation if they don't go? Come on now, we have to 'get it right'!!! It would be awesome if the court ruled against the coach and ordered all of his players to do 100 hours community service in Denver Bronco uniforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) This case is a microcosm of everything that is wrong with society. People have no respect for authority at all. A decision made by an authority figure (referee, teacher, parent, etc) is viewed as a starting point in a negotiation, rather than what it actually is: a decision. Sometimes people make mistakes; it's part of life. This situation is a complete joke. It is a high school football game. Nobody but creepy middle aged dudes who wear their HS football jerseys to games on Friday nights and act like they are still part of the team is going to care in 5 years. Edited December 10, 2014 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This case is a microcosm of everything that is wrong with society. People have no respect for authority at all. A decision made by an authority figure (referee, teacher, parent, etc) is viewed as a starting point in a negotiation, rather than what it actually is: a decision. Sometimes people make mistakes; it's part of life. This situation is a complete joke. It is a high school football game. Nobody but creepy middle aged dudes who wear their HS football jerseys to games on Friday nights and act like they are still part of the team is going to care in 5 years weeks. Fixed. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Appeal denied, case closed: http://newsok.com/douglass-locust-grove-judge-denies-douglass-request-for-injunction/article/5374965 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 figured as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Good to know they got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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