I know nonone would actually say it but do you think Whaley might actu

[thewildrabbit]

Sorry, I view this as a cop. out and not even accurate. Sure, you gotta have a good QB to win. No arguments there. However, a good coach can do pretty well and have winning and even playoff seasons with average QBing (which I believe we have).

 

Examples include Chip Kelly winning with Sanchez/Foles. Bruce Arians is winning with Drew Stanton who is no better than Kyle and maybe even worse. One team even won SB XXV with an average QB who was their backup going into the season ( how can we forget this? ).

 

A better QB would of course help the Bills, but he's what we got and we should have won more than 7 games by now given the talent on this roster (including QB).

This~

 

Then look at what Denver did to avoid letting Manning get killed the sack leading defense, and they have arguably the most elite QB in the NFL, He took a step back to only throw it 20 times, and let the run game take over. The Bills did this the first two games of the season by rushing 33 times in each of those wins, and for whatever reason went pass happy ever since. That with non elite QB's, a 2nd year QB, and an average QB.

 

Even if you gave Buffalo Manning, Brady or Brees the Bills still wouldn't win games with 57 passes vs 16 rushes. Look at what happened in St Louis when Manning threw 54 times for 389 yards only to lose. Throwing that much, and that often is not the formula for success. It makes no difference who the QB is for Buffalo as every single one has regressed under Hackett.

 

 

Lastly, I seriously don't get the love for Marrone. Why? because he hired Jim Schwartz who is fielding a championship defense? You guys should be as pissed as I am that probably the best defense since the 90's is being wasted this season with a junior college offense. You all heard Marrone that he didn't even know Hughes was benched, and so he has no input into the defense. Its all Schwartz, and his assistants.

 

 

Hackett at best should be a running backs coach.

yea, maybe for a college team...maybe.

 

I think OC's under Jauron Alex Van pelt, Turk Schonert did better with lesser talent, and where are those two now?

[NickelCity]

OLine and Hackett/whomever is influencing him are the biggest things holding this team back by a mile. I hate going into seasons knowing what our downfall will be. We did that last year. If the OLine isn't fixed and Hackett et al isn't fired, we can just have this convo again next year.

[TheFunPolice]

Marrone brings what to the table, exactly?

 

He obviously doesn't have anything to do with defense (despite his claims) since he was shocked to learn that one of his best players was on the bench.

He obviously has not helped the OL, despite being an OL guy.

His offense is terrible, and if anything, has gotten worse as time has gone on. They dress a guy every week (Goodwin) whose only job is to get a workout in running 40 yard dashes every play. They have what are supposed to be 4 solid RB and cannot run the ball. They line up in the dreaded 3 TE set every other play.

 

So what is it? Organization and leadership? That's the price of admission when you are getting paid millions of dollars to be a professional football coach.

 

Munchak has done wonders for the Steelers OL, which was a tire fire for years. I expected Marrone (two years in) would have this offense clicking by now. Instead, it's pathetic to watch.

[Solomon Grundy]

 

 

Bledsoe?

 

No, he's talking about Brady and how clairvoyant Belichick was.

[dave mcbride]

It's tough to evaluate. I never got the Bortles hype. He essentially was a less athletic Manuel. His college stats, height, and weight are basically EJ's. Yet he is a top 3 pick and EJ was a reach? The process does not make sense sometimes. EJ's rookie season was far better than Bortles, who was a slam dunk top 5 pick.

 

Mike Vick had his best passing season in like his 10 year under Andy Reid. Steve Young was very inaccuarte early in his career. I'm not going to pretend EJ is going to be Rodgers (who sat behind a HOFer for 3 years). But he could be a threat for a big play with his arms and legs. I feel like a better offensive coaching staff would have EJ further along.

I was on board with the EJ back and still think it was an OK gamble. He had the measurables and won consistently at a high-level program. The knock was the simplicity of his game. The accuracy stuff wasn't mentioned as much because you know how college is - some guy is always open because pretty much every team plays zone (otherwise they'd give up TD passes every other play). I haven't given up on him. I'm just very concerned about the accuracy. Are there any examples of guys with poor accuracy who became much more accurate over time? I'm not referring to completion rates, by the way - they aren't indicative. There has to be someone out there ...

[JohnC]

Sorry, I view this as a cop. out and not even accurate. Sure, you gotta have a good QB to win. No arguments there. However, a good coach can do pretty well and have winning and even playoff seasons with average QBing (which I believe we have).

 

Examples include Chip Kelly winning with Sanchez/Foles. Bruce Arians is winning with Drew Stanton who is no better than Kyle and maybe even worse. One team even won SB XXV with an average QB who was their backup going into the season ( how can we forget this? ).

 

A better QB would of course help the Bills, but he's what we got and we should have won more than 7 games by now given the talent on this roster (including QB).

 

Considering what the Bills had at qb coming into this season the Bills were an 8-8 type team, maybe 9-7 at best. The person taking our snaps is a vagabound qb who didn't come into camp until the season was just about to start. He, mediocre as he is, replaced the young starter who was simply (at this point) was not up to the task. Our OL as it stands is less than being below par. The bottom line is on offense because of the qb and line situation this team was never going to be a contending team.

I don't care who the HC is no one is going to overcome the lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball.

 

The worse thing this misbegotten franchise should do is to bring in another coaching staff. The churning of the staff for a franchise that has historically been unstable is to create more instability. The source of the problem is the roster. Until the deficiencies are rectified it doesn't matter who the HC is. Not having an all-star qb is not the issue here. The primary issue is that the team doesn't have a legitimate franchise qb that will enable it to compete at a serious level.

[reddogblitz]

Our OL as it stands is less than being below par. The bottom line is on offense because of the qb and line situation this team was never going to be a contending team.

 

I don't care who the HC is no one is going to overcome the lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball.

 

Have you considered that perhaps the OLine is as bad as it is due to how they are being coached? And maybe the QB because of what he is being asked to do (pass 57 times in a game or take 7 step drops and look for WRs instead of plays to get the football out fast)?

 

Not saying that's the whole cause, but I do think it is a big contributor to our ineptness on offense.

[JohnC]

After years of missing the playoffs, the problem with the Bills is bigger than who's HC or playing QB. It's the people making the decisions to hire the HC or how they go about identifying and acquiring a QB. While they've moved Brandon from supervising football ops, they've still got football people who strategically don't get it. These same people didn't plan appropriately at QB from 2010-present and traded future picks for a WR who, while he looks excellent, isn't a 1st and 4th better (at this point) than the other 2014 WR options.

 

The point is their plan to win is extremely flawed. A consultant is necessary to evaluate the people who are OBD lifers or hired by the lifers that acclimate to the culture which has taken hold.

 

And then it's imperative for the consultant to educate the owner (who hasn't been in the NFL long) and provide recommendations for the owner to implement. If that means relieving people who've achieved nothing beyond 8 win seasons, so be it. Because right now I think Terry and Kim are learning, but I don't trust the current people at OBD to suggest making changes. The owner needs independent eyes right now.

 

This organization has gone through tumult since its inception. With Whaley at the helm and with the opportunity to bring in his own people this historically oddball franchise has at the minimum achieved normalcy. The Levy/Brandon/Nix tenure very much damaged this franchise. Addressing the qb issue under most circumstances is a major challenge. When you have three stooges type staffing making personnel decisions it is an impossible challenge.

 

Pegula can bring in all the expensive consultants he wants and come up with the same major conclusion that you and I advocate for: the priority is getting a legitimate franchise qb to take the snaps, even if it is only a bridge qb until a long-term qb is identified.

 

To be fair if this team had an above average qb when the season started it would not be unreasonable to believe that this team would be in the playoffs, even with an atrocious OL.

 

It might be satisfying for many people to dump the HC because of the repetitive scenario of not being a playoff participant. But getting rid of the HC and doing another front office restructuring doesn't solve anything as much as getting a qb who can play at a high enough level to make this offense more productive.

 

I say this with extreme confidence if Kyle Orton is the starting qb next year the playoff drought streak will continue. I will also say that if EJ is the starter next year he will be better and the streak of playoff drought will still be in effect.

 

Have you considered that perhaps the OLine is as bad as it is due to how they are being coached? And maybe the QB because of what he is being asked to do (pass 57 times in a game or take 7 step drops and look for WRs instead of plays to get the football out fast)?

 

Not saying that's the whole cause, but I do think it is a big contributor to our ineptness on offense.

 

The OL as it is structureed with its type of players, especially at the guard positions--big and slow footed. was flawed to begin with. It's about the talent level. Bad qbing affects the OL, and bad OL play affects the qb play. Mediocrity applied to mediocrity results in mediocrity magnified.

[BillsVet]

Pegula can bring in all the expensive consultants he wants and come up with the same major conclusion that you and I advocate for: the priority is getting a legitimate franchise qb to take the snaps, even if it is only a bridge qb until a long-term qb is identified.

 

To be fair if this team had an above average qb when the season started it would not be unreasonable to believe that this team would be in the playoffs, even with an atrocious OL.

 

It's myopic and an example of small picture thinking to just say if you get a QB then everything falls into place. Who finds the QB? Or do they drop out of the sky?

 

Because you don't invest 1.4B plus and not put independent eyes on your investment. Having said that, do you trust, based on objective evidence, Doug Whaley and crew to make the right decision at the QB position?

[JohnC]

It's myopic and an example of small picture thinking to just say if you get a QB then everything falls into place. Who finds the QB? Or do they drop out of the sky?

 

Because you don't invest 1.4B plus and not put independent eyes on your investment. Having said that, do you trust, based on objective evidence, Doug Whaley and crew to make the right decision at the QB position?

 

You missed my central point. The one transaction that will elevate this franchise more than any other is having a quality qb. For me that is very obvious. No one is saying that other roster issues need not also be addressed, such as the OL. In my opinion this year, even with a flawed roster, if the qbing would have been credible this team would have been in the playoffs.

 

I have no doubt that Pegula is going to talk to a lot of experts regarding the franchise and how it is structured. In fact the restructuring has started with the departure of Littman. It doesn't matter who Pegula talks to when he seeks advice the advice is going to be simple and obvious: get yourself a freaking qb that will enable you to compete!

 

Even Pegula the hockey man can trust his eyes and understand that the level of play of our qbs is handicapping this team. There is no mystery here or genius thought required to figure out what the main problem is with this team (not all the problems),

 

Where you and I disagree is that I believe that Whaley has brought in enough quality staff and restructured the football operation adequately enough. You may not agree with that assessment but I do.

[reddogblitz]

get yourself a freaking qb that will enable you to compete!

 

There ya go Terry. Hop on down to 7-11 and pick you one up.

 

It could be argued that 7-6 is competing.

 

There's probably 20 other teams in the NFL you could give this exact same advice to. Heck, we've tried. Whaley/Marrone have brought in, by my count, 9 QBs since they arrived. EJ, Kolb, Thaddues, Lienert, Tuel Time, Matt Flynn, Dennis Dixon, Jordon Palmer, and Kyle.

 

A motley crew no doubt, but good NFL QBs don't grow on trees. They are hard to find. You can't just throw your hands in the air until you get one. You gotta build a team so that when you do you can win. In the mean time try to find the best you can and win with that. It can be done.

 

And, just because you got one doesn't mean you can compete. Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Cam Newton,Colin Kaepernick and, Eli Manning are not competing so well this year.

[dave mcbride]

It's myopic and an example of small picture thinking to just say if you get a QB then everything falls into place. Who finds the QB? Or do they drop out of the sky?

 

Because you don't invest 1.4B plus and not put independent eyes on your investment. Having said that, do you trust, based on objective evidence, Doug Whaley and crew to make the right decision at the QB position?

 

Well, they did want to draft Russell Wilson, albeit in the 4th round. That sounds damning - and I guess it is a little - but it is the case that they liked him. It's just that Nix didn't game the draft correctly. That's not misidentifying talent though.

[TheFunPolice]

It could come down to Hackett.

 

I feel like God himself could descend from Heaven, order Marrone to fire Hackett, and St. Doug would say something like "Listen God, obviously there were some plays we want back... some stuff we gotta do better...Okay? Obviously we are gonna work hard to improve and Nate is gonna be the guy to do it. So fly on back up there and let me work, okay?"

[Big Gun]

It's tough to evaluate. I never got the Bortles hype. He essentially was a less athletic Manuel. His college stats, height, and weight are basically EJ's. Yet he is a top 3 pick and EJ was a reach? The process does not make sense sometimes. EJ's rookie season was far better than Bortles, who was a slam dunk top 5 pick.

 

Mike Vick had his best passing season in like his 10 year under Andy Reid. Steve Young was very inaccuarte early in his career. I'm not going to pretend EJ is going to be Rodgers (who sat behind a HOFer for 3 years). But he could be a threat for a big play with his arms and legs. I feel like a better offensive coaching staff would have EJ further along.

 

That right there says all that needs to be said about your football IQ. Obviously, you don't understand it and don't get it. Yet you continue to beat the EJ horse.

[GunnerBill]

Then look at what Denver did to avoid letting Manning get killed the sack leading defense, and they have arguably the most elite QB in the NFL, He took a step back to only throw it 20 times, and let the run game take over. The Bills did this the first two games of the season by rushing 33 times in each of those wins, and for whatever reason went pass happy ever since. That with non elite QB's, a 2nd year QB, and an average QB.

 

Even if you gave Buffalo Manning, Brady or Brees the Bills still wouldn't win games with 57 passes vs 16 rushes. Look at what happened in St Louis when Manning threw 54 times for 389 yards only to lose. Throwing that much, and that often is not the formula for success. It makes no difference who the QB is for Buffalo as every single one has regressed under Hackett.

 

Safe to say we don't agree with each other on everything, but I've consistently agreed with you on this. If you are going to make the play offs, particularly with bottom third of the league Quarterbacking you have to run the football. As soon as the Bills are more than 3 points down in a game they abandon the run. It is so frustrating. Even when you are 14 points down you are allowed to run... someone should tell Hackett. Clearly you can't go run heavy at that point but you can still strive for something approaching balance. The Houston game summed it up... down less than a score through the pick 6 we put the running game on ice and started chucking it with a QB whose confidence had just been shattered by the pick 6. Incomprehensible.

[All_Pro_Bills]

There ya go Terry. Hop on down to 7-11 and pick you one up.

 

It could be argued that 7-6 is competing.

 

There's probably 20 other teams in the NFL you could give this exact same advice to. Heck, we've tried. Whaley/Marrone have brought in, by my count, 9 QBs since they arrived. EJ, Kolb, Thaddues, Lienert, Tuel Time, Matt Flynn, Dennis Dixon, Jordon Palmer, and Kyle.

 

A motley crew no doubt, but good NFL QBs don't grow on trees. They are hard to find. You can't just throw your hands in the air until you get one. You gotta build a team so that when you do you can win. In the mean time try to find the best you can and win with that. It can be done.

 

And, just because you got one doesn't mean you can compete. Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Cam Newton,Colin Kaepernick and, Eli Manning are not competing so well this year.

There you have it, the core of the problem. We all know you need a good QB but what are the options available for next season? Through the draft, the current roster, free agency. We can debate the degree of impact of a better QB relative to other problems but who exactly are we expecting the Bills to go out and get that will solve the problem?

[C.Biscuit97]

That right there says all that needs to be said about your football IQ. Obviously, you don't understand it and don't get it. Yet you continue to beat the EJ horse.

 

You add nothing with this post. But you're right. Bortles' 23 QBR is evidence why he should be a top 3 pick while EJ's rookie year QBR of 40 is evidence why he was a reach.

 

Great point!

[sjjr]

The biggest disappointment with Marrone has been player development. I thought he would bring along talent, particularly on the O-line, like he did in New Orleans, NY and with Syracuse. He's not produced any Carl Nicks, Brandon Moore's or even Justin Pughs. He inherited a good young LT in Cordy Glenn, who's hasn't improved under Marrone. Whaley gave him 3 draft picks that had all the measurables and needed to be developed. One hasn't even been active, another was pulled and Henderson is playing like this because he came ready to finally live up to his hype. In fact, I can't think of any offensive player that has improved in the last two seasons. There are lots of players who have regressed to me (E.Wood, Urbick, Spiller).

 

It seems like he just hands the defense over to a great defensive coach and let's them do their thing. Both Pettine and Schwartz have done great jobs. They have developed players effectively, like Kiko, Preston Brown, A.Williams, Dareus and Gilmore.

 

He needs to win these last three games or show some young offensive players are developing under his tutelage. If not, he could and should be in trouble.

[Big Gun]

You add nothing with this post. But you're right. Bortles' 23 QBR is evidence why he should be a top 3 pick while EJ's rookie year QBR of 40 is evidence why he was a reach.

 

Great point!

 

Thank You, point proven!