John from Riverside Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I know that everyone sports the company line because that is the professional thing to do and we are in season I think back to all of the moves that Whaley has actually made to improve the organization...... Now Doug Whaley answers to just the Pegulas I think to some of the players that Whaley has brought in that have not been utilized to their max by the coaches.... Mike Williams comes to mind In pre season Mike Williams was killin it from the way things were making it sound.....then in almost no time at all he is riding the bench and now cut. There have been other situations along these lines. I am just wondering if Whaley might be looking forward to bringing in another coaching staff and is not happy with this one? I wonder how influencial he was in bringing in Schwartz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I know that everyone sports the company line because that is the professional thing to do and we are in season I think back to all of the moves that Whaley has actually made to improve the organization...... Now Doug Whaley answers to just the Pegulas I think to some of the players that Whaley has brought in that have not been utilized to their max by the coaches.... Mike Williams comes to mind In pre season Mike Williams was killin it from the way things were making it sound.....then in almost no time at all he is riding the bench and now cut. There have been other situations along these lines. I am just wondering if Whaley might be looking forward to bringing in another coaching staff and is not happy with this one? I wonder how influencial he was in bringing in Schwartz? I do not want Schwartz as HC. He can't do the job. 4-12 with that Lions roster last year is disgraceful, especially with Rodgers missing half the season. Imagine an HC in Buffalo going 4-12 with Brady out for an entire year, and an 8-8 Pats squad. You'd lose your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 I do not want Schwartz as HC. He can't do the job. 4-12 with that Lions roster last year is disgraceful, especially with Rodgers missing half the season. Imagine an HC in Buffalo going 4-12 with Brady out for an entire year, and an 8-8 Pats squad. You'd lose your mind. I am not suggesting that Schwartz be the new HC......more like what it would take to keep him on as DC in a massive coach overhaul. I dont want him as HC I do wonder if Whaley might see an opportunity to upgrade the coaching staff as a whole now that the team has stability and a deep pockets owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I know that everyone sports the company line because that is the professional thing to do and we are in season I think back to all of the moves that Whaley has actually made to improve the organization...... Now Doug Whaley answers to just the Pegulas I think to some of the players that Whaley has brought in that have not been utilized to their max by the coaches.... Mike Williams comes to mind In pre season Mike Williams was killin it from the way things were making it sound.....then in almost no time at all he is riding the bench and now cut. There have been other situations along these lines. I am just wondering if Whaley might be looking forward to bringing in another coaching staff and is not happy with this one? I wonder how influencial he was in bringing in Schwartz? Later on, maybe. But reports were that MW was in danger of not even making the team early on. I thought it was lingering hamstring problems from last year that were hindering him. But he had a dreadful first couple weeks of camp. I think the rest of your post has some credence. While Marrone had final say on the Schwartz hire and was involved in the search, Whaley certainly pitched the job as well. Marrone and Whaley HAVE butted heads over players. Marrone has butted heads with Monos in that regard as well as others, too. But I don't think this is a rare thing in the league given what their respective duties are as HC and GM. If the Pegulas are inclined to make a change, I'm sure they'd welcome Whaley's input unless they are considering changing GMs as well. It's be interesting to see if previous reports of Pegula bringing in a consultant are true. In that case, Whaley will be scrutinized as well. Hard to argue with Whaley's player-personnel decisions overall, I think. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I am not suggesting that Schwartz be the new HC......more like what it would take to keep him on as DC in a massive coach overhaul. I dont want him as HC I do wonder if Whaley might see an opportunity to upgrade the coaching staff as a whole now that the team has stability and a deep pockets owner I don't know if a "proven" HC would want his staff to be dictated by the GM. It would require some schmoozing, that's for certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Why try to find a feud where there is probably none? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I am not suggesting that Schwartz be the new HC......more like what it would take to keep him on as DC in a massive coach overhaul. I dont want him as HC I do wonder if Whaley might see an opportunity to upgrade the coaching staff as a whole now that the team has stability and a deep pockets owner Don't think he would stay around as DC, he OBVIOUSLY came hear because he wants to be a head coach again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Well I will say this.......Marrone certainly isn't the coach he promised to be. He promised to be innovative and aggressive offensively and they are as far from those things as they could possibly be. Where the blame for that goes is up for debate but someone needs to be held accountable. As much as I'd like to blame Marrone/Hackett I think the front office bungled badly wrt personnel decisions in the offseason when they hired Marrone and I was less than impressed with last offseason as well. The best time to make a turnaround in the NFL nowadays is year ONE. New coaches bring new systems that other teams are unprepared for and that buys you a natural game-planning edge much of that first season. In year one Marrone and Hackett tried to install an up-tempo attack that looked quite promising early but they scrapped it this year....saddled with a porous OL and a QB who wasn't good enough to throw from the pocket or durable enough to be a dual threat. It's almost as if Marrone has said........if you give me mediocre talent I will give you a mediocre offense....which fits the whole St. Doug model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I do not want Schwartz as HC. He can't do the job. 4-12 with that Lions roster last year is disgraceful, especially with Rodgers missing half the season. Imagine an HC in Buffalo going 4-12 with Brady out for an entire year, and an 8-8 Pats squad. You'd lose your mind. Imagine if the Patriots thought that of Belichick when he was with the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Later on, maybe. But reports were that MW was in danger of not even making the team early on. I thought it was lingering hamstring problems from last year that were hindering him. But he had a dreadful first couple weeks of camp. I think the rest of your post has some credence. While Marrone had final say on the Schwartz hire and was involved in the search, Whaley certainly pitched the job as well. Marrone and Whaley HAVE butted heads over players. Marrone has butted heads with Monos in that regard as well as others, too. But I don't think this is a rare thing in the league given what their respective duties are as HC and GM. If the Pegulas are inclined to make a change, I'm sure they'd welcome Whaley's input unless they are considering changing GMs as well. It's be interesting to see if previous reports of Pegula bringing in a consultant are true. In that case, Whaley will be scrutinized as well. Hard to argue with Whaley's player-personnel decisions overall, I think. GO BILLS!!! Good post. I agree on all fronts. I think Whaley could and would fire Marrone at the end of this season (if we lose to the Pack and the Pats, which we may not). I wouldn't bet on it, and maybe not even predict it. But I think he may, depending on what the Pegulas think of Marrone (and to some degree, what Brandon's input is). Edited December 8, 2014 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Imagine if the Patriots thought that of Belichick when he was with the Browns. Who was the Browns #1 overall QB and one of the best WR's in history during BB's tenure? Edited December 8, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 wow look at other teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I know that everyone sports the company line because that is the professional thing to do and we are in season I think back to all of the moves that Whaley has actually made to improve the organization...... Now Doug Whaley answers to just the Pegulas I think to some of the players that Whaley has brought in that have not been utilized to their max by the coaches.... Mike Williams comes to mind In pre season Mike Williams was killin it from the way things were making it sound.....then in almost no time at all he is riding the bench and now cut. There have been other situations along these lines. I am just wondering if Whaley might be looking forward to bringing in another coaching staff and is not happy with this one? I wonder how influencial he was in bringing in Schwartz? Gms don't bring in assistant coaches, the head coach does. I actually believe that Marrone was interested in Schwartz once he was fired, and was not happy with Pettine's run D. He was more than happy to prep Pettine for the Brown's job. That said, I do like Schwartz as the next HC. He has a very similar background to Belicheck, who also failed at his first HC job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Imagine if the Patriots thought that of Belichick when he was with the Browns. That!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I think this off season three things could happen: 1) TP (and KP) decides to completely clean house up to and including RB, DW, and all the coaches. I kind of doubt this will happen as from what I've read, TP appreciated RB's help during the purchase process so likely he stays. I do believe RB likes DW so puts a good word in for him and DW also keeps his job. I hope this happens as I believe the Bill's would be hard pressed to find a better GM He's made more good moves than bad, the one bad one people will bring up is QB, while I don't disagree this hasn't worked out very well, 20 other teams have the same problem. It takes more luck than anything to find the answer at QB 2) Whaley instructs DM to fire Hackett and DM refuses. Then DM also gets shown the door. In defense of DM, if I were him I'd argue that it will be difficult to bring in a new OC unless DM's contract is extended as who wants to work for a lame duck coach. If I recall correctly that was the same argument Wade Phillips made to RW at the time, but it didn't work that time either. It's also possible that Whaley puts many conditions on DM hoping he'll not accept them giving him an excuse to fire him. Wade had a a much longer and successful resume than DM does, so for Wade, he could play that card and not worry about getting rehired. For Marrone if he refuses to meet conditions and gets fired, he'll likely struggle to get another shot even in college, so not so sure Doug would be dumb enough to go down that route. (I'm certain these words will get many responses) 3) All the off season stories about friction between DM and the front office are true as this thread alludes too and DM is fired for that. So will see what happens in a month, will be very surprised if at least Hackett isn't gone by New Years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harv shitz Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I thought Marrone's resume was a bit light on qualifications to be named an NFL Head Coach. Problem is nobody wanted the job! What if Marrone is fired, and NOBODY wants the job again? It just blows the mind that this team has this kind of talent, yet again for 16 years, we can't even get decent QB play, or coaching/play-calling that makes any sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I think it would depend on if Brandon is truly out-of-the-picture on the football side. If he's still involved at all, then it's highly unlikely Marrone is gone, at least not this off-season anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Good post. I agree on all fronts. I think Whaley could and would fire Marrone at the end of this season (if we lose to the Pack and the Pats, which we may not). I wouldn't bet on it, and maybe not even predict it. But I think he may, depending on what the Pegulas think of Marrone (and to some degree, what Brandon's input is). I agree. I don't think Marrone comes back if he loses out. Conversely, 10-6 (playoffs or not) brings him back, I think. This is when I'm reminded of the Bullough days. If the players sincerely don't respect Marrone, they may very well run for the bus if they feel a losing record gets him fired. That's not as bat-schit crazy as it sounds. Fred Smerlas threatened physical harm to anyone that played well for Bullough and made him look good as a result. GO BILLS!!! I think this off season three things could happen: 1) TP (and KP) decides to completely clean house up to and including RB, DW, and all the coaches. I kind of doubt this will happen as from what I've read, TP appreciated RB's help during the purchase process so likely he stays. I do believe RB likes DW so puts a good word in for him and DW also keeps his job. I hope this happens as I believe the Bill's would be hard pressed to find a better GM He's made more good moves than bad, the one bad one people will bring up is QB, while I don't disagree this hasn't worked out very well, 20 other teams have the same problem. It takes more luck than anything to find the answer at QB 2) Whaley instructs DM to fire Hackett and DM refuses. Then DM also gets shown the door. In defense of DM, if I were him I'd argue that it will be difficult to bring in a new OC unless DM's contract is extended as who wants to work for a lame duck coach. If I recall correctly that was the same argument Wade Phillips made to RW at the time, but it didn't work that time either. It's also possible that Whaley puts many conditions on DM hoping he'll not accept them giving him an excuse to fire him. Wade had a a much longer and successful resume than DM does, so for Wade, he could play that card and not worry about getting rehired. For Marrone if he refuses to meet conditions and gets fired, he'll likely struggle to get another shot even in college, so not so sure Doug would be dumb enough to go down that route. (I'm certain these words will get many responses) 3) All the off season stories about friction between DM and the front office are true as this thread alludes too and DM is fired for that. So will see what happens in a month, will be very surprised if at least Hackett isn't gone by New Years. I doubt Russ gets touched now that he's back on the business side. His track record in that capacity is pretty impressive, actually. I think your idea of DM being asked to fire NH might happen. GO BILLS!!! Edited December 9, 2014 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I agree. I don't think Marrone comes back if he loses out. Conversely, 10-6 (playoffs or not) brings him back, I think. This is when I'm reminded of the Bullough days. If the players sincerely don't respect Marrone, they may very well run for the bus if they feel a losing record gets him fired. That's not as bat-schit crazy as it sounds. Fred Smerlas threatened physical harm to anyone that played well for Bullough and made him look good as a result. GO BILLS!!! I doubt Russ gets touched now that he's back on the business side. His track record in that capacity is pretty impressive, actually. I think your idea of DM being asked to fire NH might happen. GO BILLS!!! The problem with that is I think it's Marrone's offense. They work together and Hackett designs a lot of the plays in the playbook and calls most of them during the game, but I believe it's Marrone who decides who plays, what formations (2-3 TE and bunch) they run and how much of it they run in each game. Firing NH wouldn't change much unless Whaley ordered that too, and that would be harder to do, plus put Marrone in an untenable situation with his GM. Schwartz really complicates matters, too. It's hard to fire Marrone, keep Schwartz, and not piss Schwartz off giving the job to his contemporary. The only thing that works IMO is fire Marrone, hire Malzhan or Sumlin from college to be HC but just run the offense, give Schwartz a big raise and Assistant HC title and more responsibility, which will help him get his next HC job. I would actually like that I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Cant judge a coach or win playoff games without a solid qb that has a decent enough Oline line to keep him upright and to create some holes here and there for the runners. Until then I wouldnt fire anyone because you don't know what kind of coach he is yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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