FireChan Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 as is Chip Kelly who cut his #1 star WR because he didn't like his "individualism." Much bigger deal than giving up on mike Williams. And Riley Cooper is getting vocal about his targets, I bet he either ships up or starts losing reps.
GG Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 I'm not insisting anything about grudges one way or the other. Not sure why you keep bringing that up. Marrone won't be the last "my way or the highway" head coach. It's funny when people are surprised when he acts this way. I disagree that coaches like Belichick can't be compared in terms of how they run their respective ships. Belichick is the epitome of the "my way or the highway" mentality. Unfortunately, that's where the comparison with Marrone begins and ends. GO BILLS!!! The reason I brought it up again is that it appeared that you refuted that Marrone holds grudges in another thread. If not, I'm mistaken. The reason I brought up Belichick is that people don't stop comparing bad coaches to Belichick, because one factor of their game matches the dark lord. I never argued that Belichick doesn't run a pyramid management structure. Many coaches like to emulate him. Usually, they fall woefully short. But boy do they like to sound the part.
NoSaint Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 as is Chip Kelly who cut his #1 star WR because he didn't like his "individualism." Much bigger deal than giving up on mike Williams. when people think you are exceptionally smart, you certainly get more slack on bold decisions.
FireChan Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) The reason I brought it up again is that it appeared that you refuted that Marrone holds grudges in another thread. If not, I'm mistaken. The reason I brought up Belichick is that people don't stop comparing bad coaches to Belichick, because one factor of their game matches the dark lord. I never argued that Belichick doesn't run a pyramid management structure. Many coaches like to emulate him. Usually, they fall woefully short. But boy do they like to sound the part. That style of management isn't uncommon for coaches. BB wasn't the first to operate like that. Sure, there are always gonna be Greg's or Schiano's, but just because DM has that mentality does not indicate one way or another what kind of career he will have. when people think you are exceptionally smart, you certainly get more slack on bold decisions. You also get slack when you cook up some gang story to cover your own ass like a coward. Oh wait, he's not a Bills coach, so he doesn't get held to that standard. Edited December 10, 2014 by FireChan
GG Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 You also get slack when you cook up some gang story to cover your own ass like a coward. Oh wait, he's not a Bills coach, so he doesn't get held to that standard. He's not a Bills coach because he has a winning record. The leeway has a lot to do with that.
FireChan Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) He's not a Bills coach because he has a winning record. The leeway has a lot to do with that. Doug Marrone has had a winning record all year. And yes, he gets leeway but it was a POS move. Edited December 10, 2014 by FireChan
YoloinOhio Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) He's not a Bills coach because he has a winning record. The leeway has a lot to do with that. who is giving chip leeway? It was handled very poorly by the Eagles, IMO. Edited December 10, 2014 by YoloinOhio
K-9 Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 The reason I brought it up again is that it appeared that you refuted that Marrone holds grudges in another thread. If not, I'm mistaken. The reason I brought up Belichick is that people don't stop comparing bad coaches to Belichick, because one factor of their game matches the dark lord. I never argued that Belichick doesn't run a pyramid management structure. Many coaches like to emulate him. Usually, they fall woefully short. But boy do they like to sound the part. No doubt. It goes back to Lombardi. Gotta have a certain amount of bombastic braggadocio to try to convince everybody I guess. But like every coach in history, it comes down to wins and losses. Marrone will rise or fall based on that criteria alone. You didn't see my edit of may last response, but I had asked in your scenario of Hughes playing offense, is he having as good a two years as he's had on defense? If so, I think that affords him a ton of leeway with Marrone. We've already seen that with him playing defense. GO BILLS!!! as is Chip Kelly who cut his #1 star WR because he didn't like his "individualism." Much bigger deal than giving up on mike Williams. Btw, we do not know why MW was cut. People are creating scenarios in their minds to fit their own narratives. I am sure we will know at some point, but those assuming this is an example of Marrone and Whaley not seeing eye to eye are only speculating that Whaley wanted him to play and Marrone did not. We do not know that. As the GM he could certainly have agreed that he shouldn't play, whatever the reason is. I agree there's much to learn about the MW situation. I will say this emphatically: I think Whaley respects the role of the HC regarding his use of the roster and I doubt he's at odds with Marrone because of that. He said as much on the radio last week: he supplies the 53 and it's up to Marrone to use them as he and the staff see fit, he doesn't interfere with that process. GO BILLS!!!
GG Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 No doubt. It goes back to Lombardi. Gotta have a certain amount of bombastic braggadocio to try to convince everybody I guess. But like every coach in history, it comes down to wins and losses. Marrone will rise or fall based on that criteria alone. You didn't see my edit of may last response, but I had asked in your scenario of Hughes playing offense, is he having as good a two years as he's had on defense? If so, I think that affords him a ton of leeway with Marrone. We've already seen that with him playing defense. GO BILLS!!! Yes, Hughes is lighting it up. But my point is that if Hughes played offense, he would never have seen the field in the beginning of the year to show how well he can play in real games. Kind of the point that people are making about MW. Hard to gauge the potential contribution when you're resigned to the scout team because the coach wants to teach a lesson.
FireChan Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Yes, Hughes is lighting it up. But my point is that if Hughes played offense, he would never have seen the field in the beginning of the year to show how well he can play in real games. Kind of the point that people are making about MW. Hard to gauge the potential contribution when you're resigned to the scout team because the coach wants to teach a lesson. Mike Williams started the first four games. He didn't get a year-long try out, but it's hardly a "we never got to see him in action" scenario. He shot off his mouth, got benched, and Hogan played decently. Edited December 10, 2014 by FireChan
NoSaint Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 who is giving chip leeway? It was handled very poorly by the Eagles, IMO. he definitely got some blowback on it.
boyst Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 The reason I brought it up again is that it appeared that you refuted that Marrone holds grudges in another thread. If not, I'm mistaken. The reason I brought up Belichick is that people don't stop comparing bad coaches to Belichick, because one factor of their game matches the dark lord. I never argued that Belichick doesn't run a pyramid management structure. Many coaches like to emulate him. Usually, they fall woefully short. But boy do they like to sound the part. As K-9 points out it has to come with some balls and some bit of over inflated ego. One of the best examples of this today are the Harbaughs. One on the right is doing his best with an organization in a bit of a rebuild but still contending while the other is mishandling talent and under performing and regressing. Neither are impressing and neither are actually building their teams up. Both have been trending down since they began their tenure. In the past, a former Baltimore coach was the epitome if the behavior of a bullheaded, over inflated ego of a coach who had his balls swinging every which way. Few people have done to his teams what Brian Billick did. The guy was unfit to be a HC and mismanaged some of the best defensive talent in the league. Nonetheless, his talent was so superior that he had major success. who is giving chip leeway? It was handled very poorly by the Eagles, IMO. It is forgotten by the average fan of the NFL and other teams fans. But, the Iggles fans remember it and his schtick will wear thin sooner then people realize. I don't expect him to last another year there.
K-9 Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Yes, Hughes is lighting it up. But my point is that if Hughes played offense, he would never have seen the field in the beginning of the year to show how well he can play in real games. Kind of the point that people are making about MW. Hard to gauge the potential contribution when you're resigned to the scout team because the coach wants to teach a lesson. I guess this is where we disagree. Hughes lit it up all last year and in camp and preseason this year. MW was out most of last season and started off very slowly this year (most likely due to his hammy issues), and really didn't show all that much in camp or preseason. He just wasn't the same player he was his first few seasons. So just from a production standpoint alone, I think Hughes curries more favor with Marrone which is why he gets a longer leash. What had MW shown over the last two seasons and through the four games he started this season to merit the same longer leash? He didn't make it a difficult decision for Marrone from that standpoint. Now, if Hughes had gone public with criticism of the staff and then publicly demanded to be traded would Marrone have benched him? I think there's every possibility he would have, regardless of Hughes' outstanding play. That seems to be the one line a player can't cross and that would have been the maximum length of leash afforded him. Interesting exercise. GO BILLS!!! Edited December 10, 2014 by K-9
NoSaint Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Doug Marrone has had a winning record all year. And yes, he gets leeway but it was a POS move. if we win out, he will be back to a .500 career record, his high water mark (college or pro, at any time in either level). chip kelly is 19-11 (with a playoff appearance, might soon be 2 in 2 years) and was 46-7 as a college coach. so theres that. much like the harbaugh comparison the other day. doug hasnt earned that credit yet. Edited December 10, 2014 by NoSaint
FireChan Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 if we win out, he will be back to a .500 career record, his high water mark (college or pro, at any time in either level). chip kelly is 19-11 (with a playoff appearance, might soon be 2 in 2 years) and was 46-7 as a college coach. so theres that. much like the harbaugh comparison the other day. doug hasnt earned that credit yet. Oh for sure Chip is a better coach. But it's not like Marrone is 5-8
The Big Cat Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 if we win out, he will be back to a .500 career record, his high water mark (college or pro, at any time in either level). chip kelly is 19-11 (with a playoff appearance, might soon be 2 in 2 years) and was 46-7 as a college coach. so theres that. much like the harbaugh comparison the other day. doug hasnt earned that credit yet. Syracuse was 10-37 in the four years prior to Marrone. Oregon was 37-11. Otherwise, the comparison is valid.
GG Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Syracuse was 10-37 in the four years prior to Marrone. Oregon was 37-11. Otherwise, the comparison is valid. So he lifted a bad program to mediocrity? Sounds like a Bills coach.
The Big Cat Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 So he lifted a bad program to mediocrity? Sounds like a Bills coach. What is this a critique of? There's no even playing field for acquiring talent at the college level. To lift a bad program to mediocrity is...something. I honestly don't know what else you might expect in only four years.
FireChan Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 What is this a critique of? There's no even playing field for acquiring talent at the college level. To lift a bad program to mediocrity is...something. I honestly don't know what else you might expect in only four years. National Championships.
The Big Cat Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 So he lifted a bad program to mediocrity? Sounds like a Bills coach. Moreso, I'd actually contend that in TWO years, it's precisely what he's done for Buffalo. And next we're poised to make another step forward. I've actually wondered these past few days, as the company line on Marrone was how he was a "culture changer" whether his work in Buffalo is now complete?
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