K-9 Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Orton has been pretty bad lately for sure. I still believe strongly, and it has been shown repeatedly, that when we spread the offense out and put our playmakers in and even force the ball to them, Watkins and Woods in particular, they make plays. That's what Williams and Goodwin did too before we stopped doing it (mostly in years past I am talking with them, but again, that first game in OT we threw the ball up and MW went and got it and we won). As coaches, you can make your QBs do certain things. That's just it, you really can't. Back to MW for a second. He was benched when Orton took over. I don't think that's mere coincidence. GO BILLS!!!
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 So did anyone claim him? Or is he still a bill on IR?
FireChan Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) That's just it, you really can't. Back to MW for a second. He was benched when Orton took over. I don't think that's mere coincidence. GO BILLS!!! Hogan also made the most of his time taking his spot. Hard to bench a guy who is constantly producing. Edited December 9, 2014 by FireChan
Kelly the Dog Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 But why would the organization say publicly that's what they want, then tell QB's behind the scenes (as you seem to be suggesting) not to do that? I'm not suggesting that at all. Just the opposite. They don't make the QBs do that. They don't play formations and groupings for guys to do that. They play guys that don't do that. Part of it may be Orton but there is nothing to make me believe it. He's always been known for being the gunslinger guy.
The Big Cat Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 I'm not suggesting that at all. Just the opposite. They don't make the QBs do that. They don't play formations and groupings for guys to do that. They play guys that don't do that. Part of it may be Orton but there is nothing to make me believe it. He's always been known for being the gunslinger guy. Then you're insinuating that the organization is telling him not to be so much of a gunslinger...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Hogan also made the most of his time taking his spot. Hard to bench a guy who is constantly producing. He's not really producing, He's been decent at best. He's making as many poor plays as good ones. He's constantly running patterns short of first downs and being tackled short of first downs. He drops balls. He rarely breaks a tackle. He's a below average slot guy.
FireChan Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) He's not really producing, He's been decent at best. He's making as many poor plays as good ones. He's constantly running patterns short of first downs and being tackled short of first downs. He drops balls. He rarely breaks a tackle. He's a below average slot guy. Has he been producing more than Mike Williams did? Potential is all well and good, but statistically, Hogan has been blowing MW's out of the water. And yes, I realize the QB change and such, but it's hard to say "Hogan had 5 catches for 72 yards and a TD in his second game, but we're putting MW back in because he may be able to do more." Edited December 9, 2014 by FireChan
Kelly the Dog Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Then you're insinuating that the organization is telling him not to be so much of a gunslinger... They are not putting in an offense that is conducive to it. I have no idea what they are telling him to do or not do. They could be driving it into his head don't make mistakes, don't make mistakes, don't make mistakes, which is what conservative coaches do. I really don't know. But when you have so many 2-3 TE plays, for the entire season, with guys who cannot produce, what would that tell you?
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Jeremy White seems like he's on the verge of a nervous breakdown watching the QB play from Sunday for his all-22 analysis. He mentions the offseason refrain of letting WR's go up and make a play and how we've seen virtually none of that this season. Now, I know everyone here will completely over-complicate this and say it's because Marrone/Hackett are being obtuse by refusing to adhere to the GM's vision, but it's much simpler than that: our QB's suck. Not throwing the ball and giving WR's a chance is what cost EJ his job. It's about to cost Orton his, too. I have a feeling the 2015 QB's will be EJ and ____ and _____. Not disputing that the QBs suck, but there are other factors. (And it doesn't have to be overly complicated.) A QB can't make good throws if, for instance, there is a 350# guy hanging on his throwing arm. Or say the WRs all run 15+ yard routes and there is a jailbreak pass rush with no room to step up and less than 2 seconds to chuck the rock. Is it the QB's fault if he doesn't "just throw it" in that situation? Would anyone applaud the QB's effort if just getting it out of his hand ends up in pick six plays numerous times? (It's a recipe to get benched/cut.) What we need is a whole roll of "you suck" stickers so we can apply them liberally to the offense.
boyst Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 So did anyone claim him? Or is he still a bill on IR? He's on IR for the Bills. Even the website has already been updated.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Has he been producing more than Mike Williams did? In the words of Kyle Orton, "Crap question."
FireChan Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 In the words of Kyle Orton, "Crap question." So, no answer?
Kelly the Dog Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 So, no answer? That is the answer. In his career? No, MW's been 10x better. In the last five years, MW has been much, much better. In the last three years? MW has been much better. In the last two years, even hurt, MW's been better. There's your crappy answers to the crap question. Only when MW doesnt play much is Hogan better. It's a crap question. Mike Williams is a better WR than Chris Hogan. He's proven it. For some reason we don't know for sure, he got in the Doug House, and that is why he is not playing. Maybe when it comes out we will think wow, no wonder. But I doubt it. It's almost inarguable that Mike Williams is a better WR than Chris Hogan. I'm glad Hogan is on the team. Hopefully, Hogan will continue to get better, and make the jump next year that he did from last year to this year, then he could be a pretty darn good secondary receiver. He's not there yet.
FireChan Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) That is the answer. In his career? No, MW's been 10x better. In the last five years, MW has been much, much better. In the last three years? MW has been much better. In the last two years, even hurt, MW's been better. There's your crappy answers to the crap question. Only when MW doesnt play much is Hogan better. It's a crap question. Mike Williams is a better WR than Chris Hogan. He's proven it. For some reason we don't know for sure, he got in the Doug House, and that is why he is not playing. Maybe when it comes out we will think wow, no wonder. But I doubt it. It's almost inarguable that Mike Williams is a better WR than Chris Hogan. I'm glad Hogan is on the team. Hopefully, Hogan will continue to get better, and make the jump next year that he did from last year to this year, then he could be a pretty darn good secondary receiver. He's not there yet. I'm talking this year, on the Bills. Let's try to stay focused. Who has produced more this year? Was MW seeing limited snaps when he was playing with EJ for the first four games? Or was he just not producing? Or both? But you're right, MW has had a better career. So has Randy Moss, but I think Hogan has produced more than him this year. Edited December 9, 2014 by FireChan
The Big Cat Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) I'm talking this year, on the Bills. Let's try to stay focused. Who has produced more this year? If you remove the games he was a healthy scratch, ignore the plays he wasn't targeted, take out the plays when the pass was incomplete or a dump off, then only count his plays during regulation, he's averaging 80 yards and a touchdown every time he takes the field. I'm so !@#$ing done with this Mickey Mouse organization. Edited December 9, 2014 by The Big Cat
Kelly the Dog Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 I'm talking this year, on the Bills. Let's try to stay focused. Who has produced more this year? I answered the question about this year. You ignored it. Perhaps you should try to read the posts you respond to.
NoSaint Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 I'm talking this year, on the Bills. Let's try to stay focused. Who has produced more this year? Was MW seeing limited snaps when he was playing with EJ for the first four games? Or was he just not producing? Or both? But you're right, MW has had a better career. So has Randy Moss, but I think Hogan has produced more than him this year. so we should stick to who has produced more while marrone wasnt letting one play, as proof that marrone made the right decision.
The Big Cat Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 so we should stick to who has produced more while marrone wasnt letting one play, as proof that marrone made the right decision. you do realize that everything you're contending is 100% bunk if WM was injured. and considering there's way more evidence to suggest so than ANYTHING you're arguing in favor of...
FireChan Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 I answered the question about this year. You ignored it. Perhaps you should try to read the posts you respond to. No you didn't. Who has produced more this year? I don't see anything about production this year. You're arguing talent. Only when MW doesnt play much is Hogan better. MW played the first 4 games of the the year and saw the field quite a bit. Produced very little. Hogan's first 4 games when MW played very little, he produced quite a bit. You're trying to argue talent, which of course can't be quantified. MW is a better WR? Maybe, but he ain't producing more.
K-9 Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 I read in this or another post that Mike Williams posted a picture of himself smoking weed on Instagram. Is this true? And if so, any idea when that was? I'd like to believe he isn't that stupid, but given that spiel about the red socks and "putting all the pressure on himself and off his teammates" by doing so, I'm not so sure. GO BILLS!!!
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