1billsfan Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 I just don't get it. I'm so sick of the whining and crying and nitpicking every little thing. Fire Marrone: The guy who has the Bills playing the best ball in the last 15 years? The guy who has the team competing in every game? The guy who wins all of the games he is supposed too? The guy who has had this team in position to win every single game late in the 4th quarter save for 2 games? The guy who has this team playing unified ball? The guy who has the talent on this team actually producing? Why? Because you don't like that M Williams is on the bench? Because you don't like his punting decisions? Hire Harbaugh: The guy who is an offensive genius right? The guy who's team is the 24th ranked offense behind the Bills 22nd? The guy who's team is scoring the 26th most points behind the Bills 18th? The guy who just lost to the Raiders yesterday? Fire Hackett: See the stats listed above and step back from the ledge. THis offense isn't great but it isn't the worst we've ever seen. Add in the fact that he has been hamstrung by 1 qb out of the NFL (Lewis), 1 qb on the practice squad (Tuel), 1 project qb (EJ), and 1 career backup that shouldn't be anyone's starter (Orton). If you are paying attention instead of trying to fit your preconceived notions, the Bills have been using the screen game much more effectively, hell they even got the ball to Watkins yesterday to appease those fans. The Losses: Very very few people predicted better than 8-8 this year. Some said best case scenario 9-7. Rose colored glasses had 10 wins. Now that we are staring at least 8-8 in the face the sky is falling and everyone needs to be replaced. This is the best Bills team we have seen in a long time. This is the first team to not be under .500 before week 16 since 1993, this is the first team to have 7 wins by december since 2000, this team is still in the thick of the playoffs going into week 15. Legitimately in the thick of things too not well if these crazy things happen we are in. The KC game? 2 backup rbs, one untimely fumble, against a team that went out and beat the defending super bowl champs the next week. The Miami night game? The home teams are 7-5 in those games. Not one game this year should the Bills have dominated a team on paper and lost. There are very few teams that can say that any year let alone this year. Get over yourself and stop trying to fit every teeny situation to your already determined narrative. I feel like I'm not watching the same games as other people. This team is the most competitive team I have seen in a long while and we should blow it up? Football is a game which rewards teams that challenge defenses. If you are hell bent on not doing that because you and your OC are ultra conservative on offense, then that head coach and OC have no business coaching at the NFL level. I get that from time to time a team would need to try to run the ball down an opponents throat because that's what a particular game calls for. But points are scored through throwing the ball down the field. To not even try to do that in a game which puts the final nail in your season is a dereliction of duty. I'm not trying to be mean, just honest. There's just no getting around it. Marrone and Hackett are not cut out for the NFL game. You don't get medals for keeping it close and hoping for a miracle play in the 4th that wins you the game. This was week 14 and our QB still is not challenging defenses with the deep ball? I told a friend that if the Bills don't throw the ball deep they will have no shot to win the game. The defense kept this game within reach, Manning had a bad game for him, and Marrone/Hackett refused to take advantage and attempt to score touchdowns. They instead chose the drain the clock approach which is a loser's game plan. Yes, it worked once against the Bills in a Superbowl, that was a thousand years ago. Yes, the Bills need to run the ball 50% of the time, but when they do pass the ball, they must throw a certain percentage of those passes down the field in an attempt to score touchdowns and challenge the opposing defense. If you don't want to do that, you should be a high school or college coach. The NFL is for the big boys who know that scoring touchdowns is the name of this game.
section122 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Posted December 8, 2014 I sort of understand why folks want Marrone gone. He makes puzzling game day decisions. He has a loaded roster for the most part; one that many folks feel is better than a 0.500 record. Overall, talent tends to be the bottom line factor in the NFL. If a team has good enough players, the coach can't really get in their way. It's less common, IMO, for a less-talented team to be coached up to playing winning football. Both have to be there; right now it only looks like the talent is here (to me anyway). Be honest with yourself. What were your preseason expectations of this team? Maybe it is because I had them pegged at 8-8 at the start of the year but I am very okay with how this year has gone. There are huge talent gaps on this team imo. Namely at the G position and QB. The success they are having despite the deficiencies tells me that these are good coaches.
dpberr Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 I've come around to keeping Marrone but I think there will be better choices than Nate Hackett for next year for offensive coordinator. If Marrone gets this team to beat the streak, I'd be really pleased. I think that's progress. If Marrone and Whaley both stay there has to be less dysfunction when it comes to personnel. Perhaps that gets better. After all, this was their first year working together in their respective capacities. They can't have more Mike Williams situations. Only acquire players the coach is going to use.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 how about accepting improvements....if someone had told me we would have had a chance to win or tie the game at the end I would have told you you were crazy. Section122 is right....this team is going in the right direction, it's not an overnight process, losses suck, but the fact that we feel like we could/should have won this game shows how far we have come. Remember when we improved to 9-7 under Mike Mularkey and then started over? That's what this feels like to me. We don't know where we are at quarterback, at all. We have some talented playmakers being hung out to dry. The play of the offensive line seems to have regressed from where it was a couple of years ago. The defense is very good but being punished and wasted by the offense. Our "heart" guys like Freddy cannot be equalled in effort by a lead-footed quarterback. I'll be glad to see them pull off a winning record and upset NE, but really, after the many winnable games that this team has coughed up, anything below 10-6 is really unacceptable and a grand case of underachieving. And 10-6, the way this team would have assembled it, will probably not be good enough regardless. I can't look at this team and be content with what it is, when we know what it could have been. Not after 15 years of no playoffs.
CodeMonkey Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 I can't look at this team and be content with what it is, when we know what it could have been. Not after 15 years of no playoffs. ??? What could it have been?
The Poojer Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 not to mention losing your 2 starting rb's, your rookie wr sensation for spells during the season, your stud lb before the season..... Be honest with yourself. What were your preseason expectations of this team? Maybe it is because I had them pegged at 8-8 at the start of the year but I am very okay with how this year has gone. There are huge talent gaps on this team imo. Namely at the G position and QB. The success they are having despite the deficiencies tells me that these are good coaches.
thebandit27 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Be honest with yourself. What were your preseason expectations of this team? Maybe it is because I had them pegged at 8-8 at the start of the year but I am very okay with how this year has gone. There are huge talent gaps on this team imo. Namely at the G position and QB. The success they are having despite the deficiencies tells me that these are good coaches. Preseason? A 9 or 10 win team based on (a) talent level, and (b) ease of schedule for the initial 12 games. It's about more than that IMO. I think the team wins a lot of games on talent and defense, which really has little to do with Marrone; Schwartz's fingerprints are all over that defense in their style of play. Marrone's in-game decisions are just so frustrating (i.e. punting the ball back to Peyton Manning when down 2 scores late in the 4th quarter). I also find it maddening that there's a pattern of players starting out productive and then waning as teams get a feel for how to game plan against them. We've seen it with EJ, Orton, Thad Lewis last year, Robert Woods, Sammy, Spiller, Goodwin, etc. not to mention losing your 2 starting rb's, your rookie wr sensation for spells during the season, your stud lb before the season..... Strangely enough, very little in production (offensively or defensively) has changed with any of those injuries.
dave mcbride Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 I sort of understand why folks want Marrone gone. He makes puzzling game day decisions. He has a loaded roster for the most part; one that many folks feel is better than a 0.500 record. Overall, talent tends to be the bottom line factor in the NFL. If a team has good enough players, the coach can't really get in their way. It's less common, IMO, for a less-talented team to be coached up to playing winning football. Both have to be there; right now it only looks like the talent is here (to me anyway). Disagree about the talent simply because of the QB position. You can't consistently win in the NFL without a good QB. The Rams are as talented as the Bills and they have a very good HC. But they're 6-7 because of their QB.
The Poojer Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 perhaps, but losing important parts like that can be devastating but they have made adjustments and not folded like so many others have done with similar injury issues...is marrone the next coming of vince lombardi...hell no, but he is coaching thiis team pretty effectively, at least i think so. Strangely enough, very little in production (offensively or defensively) has changed with any of those injuries.
thebandit27 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Disagree about the talent simply because of the QB position. You can't consistently win in the NFL without a good QB. The Rams are as talented as the Bills and they have a very good HC. But they're 6-7 because of their QB. I agree with that. It's hard to give Marrone full credit or full blame for the team's record IMO. He's not in charge of the best part of the team, and he's not in charge of bringing in the talent. He bares some responsibility for both though. Nevertheless, your point is salient. perhaps, but losing important parts like that can be devastating but they have made adjustments and not folded like so many others have done with similar injury issues...is marrone the next coming of vince lombardi...hell no, but he is coaching thiis team pretty effectively, at least i think so. That's true...his team is resilient if nothing else. I do like Marrone the person; there just happen to be several things about his game day coaching that really bother me.
The Poojer Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 keep in mind also, i see things through orange colored glasses....so i am kind of biased.... I agree with that. It's hard to give Marrone full credit or full blame for the team's record IMO. He's not in charge of the best part of the team, and he's not in charge of bringing in the talent. He bares some responsibility for both though. Nevertheless, your point is salient. That's true...his team is resilient if nothing else. I do like Marrone the person; there just happen to be several things about his game day coaching that really bother me.
Numark3 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 The resources pumped into this offense? QB - journeyman OL - 1 first rounder, 1 second rounder, 2 waived players, and a 7th rounder TE - waived players WR - 1 first rounder, 1 second rounder, waived player, multiple mid round selections Compare that to the defense: DL: 3 first rounders CBs: 2 first rounder S: 1 second rounder, multiple mid round selections LB: second rounder, multiple mid round selections Did you just make these up? Of all the bad arguments on this forum, this might be the worst. Did you go back 10 years to prove your point on defense? 3 first rounders on defensive line? You are including maybin and mccargo? How about let's just stick to past 2-3 years since that is all that matters. And you forgot we spent our first rounder on a QB, and you are missing a another first on watkins.
goldenboy81 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Finally some common sense on this board.. couldn't agree more
dubs Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 The in game coaching decisions, coupled with the fact that we simply don't beat good teams is the nail in the coffin for me on Marrone. When you look at who we've beat, it's not pretty. Bears - bad team Dolphins - average team Lions - good team Vikings - bad team Jets - bad team Jets - bad team Browns - average team We've got one really good win this year. The rest are wins against average or bad teams. Last year we beat one playoff team, the Panthers. That was week 2. So unless we beat the Packers or Pats, The bills will have won 2 games agains playoff teams in 2 years. That's very bad.
34-78-83 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 keep in mind also, i see things through orange colored glasses....so i am kind of biased.... Mine are green
Buftex Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 I agree that this team is close to turning the corner. But not there yet. IMO, the Bills need 6 things: 1) Starting QB 2) Starting QB 3) Starting QB 4) A young Fred Jackson 5) Upgrades to the OL 6) Better OC and HC No reason to blow it up. Get the required upgrades which should be possible (QB is of course much harder), sit back and enjoy as fans. Well, if you fire the HC, you are pretty much blowing the whole thing up. No? How often does it work that a team hires a new head coach, and makes the new coach keep the old staff in tact? If they hire a new head coach, they would pretty much be forced to, at least, interview Schwartz for the job. Not something I am sure is better. I love him as our DC, but not as HC. I am not a huge fan of Marrone, I will admit, but sometimes I feel like I am being a little too critical. If I were Pegula, I might force Marrones' hand on firing Hackett. I just think this offense, still, has too much talent to be this stagnant. As always, it is going to be a very interesting off-season. I don't get the sense that Marrone is going to get fired...but some changes are needed.
BillsVet Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Be honest with yourself. What were your preseason expectations of this team? Maybe it is because I had them pegged at 8-8 at the start of the year but I am very okay with how this year has gone. There are huge talent gaps on this team imo. Namely at the G position and QB. The success they are having despite the deficiencies tells me that these are good coaches. The GM admitted it was a win-now season. Why does that change now? I could understand if the Bills had an elite or very good QB who was injured early on and replaced with a backup. Look at the Cardinals. Playing in a tough division with the defending champs, they've lost their QB and still managed to beat KC at home yesterday. At 10-3, they're probably in the playoffs barring something absurd happening. How did they do it? 15 years of no playoffs. The longest streak since the playoff format was changed in 1990. If the GM says they have to make the playoffs and don't, how that's acceptable to fans is beyond me. BTW, Buffalo's wins have come against teams with a combined 38-53 record. Nothing says mediocre like beating up bad to average teams and then getting spaked on the road and at home by the better clubs, whose combined record is 49-29. Edited December 8, 2014 by BillsVet
rumblefish Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 look at every NFL game for the most part the team that is more "disciplined" and plays smarter than the teams they play win s it's not rocket science
dave mcbride Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 I agree with that. It's hard to give Marrone full credit or full blame for the team's record IMO. He's not in charge of the best part of the team, and he's not in charge of bringing in the talent. He bares some responsibility for both though. In Marrone's defense, it was him identified and lured both Pettine and Schwartz to the Bills. I've said for a long time that head coaches don't get enough credit for building good staffs. It's why I think that the criticism of Parcells never winning without Belichik (not true in any case) is so wrong: Parcells ID'd and hired not only Belichik, but Tom Coughlin too. Sean Payton learned how to be a head coach under Parcells too. He was a builder of great staffs. Building a good staff is arguably job #1 of a head coach. I'd go as far as to say that Marrone should get credit primarily for the defensive performance. I can't properly judge the offense (although I don't like Hackett) because of the bad QB situation.
section122 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Posted December 8, 2014 MArrone is an offensive guy. He gave the defense to Pettine and Schwartz. They are more for the Defense then Marrone is. Marrone touted himself as an o-line smash mouth football guy. That is the worst part of our team. Ah yes one of the "the defense is good so he gets no credit, the offense is subpar so he gets all the blame" guys. Do you know that there is 1 team in the NFL that is top 10 in both this year? Hint it is the same team that the Bills played yesterday. Lovie Smith has his team 22nd in defense should he be fired? That is the same ranking the Bills O is but a guy many opined for. How about Tom Coughlin and his 24th ranked d? Marvi Lewis and his 29th ranked defense perhaps? All worse than what the Bills O is ranked. Are they supposed to be fired as well? Yea, because where a player is drafted is the end all be all. Not at all but it does speak to the resources spent on the sides of the ball. Add in that the 2 biggest FA signings this year (Graham and Spikes) were both on the Defensive side of the ball it is clear that the most resources are spent on it and therefore why it is performing better. I hear you Wayne. I often wonder what Marrone/Hackett would be able to do with an NFL QB under center. As to whether or not that's Marrone's fault, I'm not sure. Building a roster is a concerted effort between the GM and the coach. If the coach doesn't pound the table and tell the GM that he needs a QB (over and above what he's been given), he's probably not going to get one. My opinion is that Marrone shoulders a portion of the blame for the QB situation--how much I cannot say, because I'm not behind the closed doors. That may sound like I'm playing both sides of the table; I'm honestly just trying to be objective. I think Promo had a great thread about the absolute lack of options at the QB position recently. Alex Smith was really the only name that anyone could come up with that was available since Marrone/Whaley have taken over and even he is nothing to get excited about.
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