Ok, so what HC will Pegula hire to maintain defensive staff?

[rumblefish]

would the Bills have gone to the Super Bowl if Marv had been canned after two years, we doubt it, you change when you are going in a down ward direction, Bills are not, blow It up/start again, will do more harm than good,If the team was 2 and14 or even 3 and 13 than ok do it, changing now will hurt more than giving it Marone one more year

Edited December 8, 2014 by rumblefish

[BillsVet]

I don't follow. Vet says the FO is a disaster because Whaley doesn't make himself as available to the media as Brandon does and you agree because Marrone's record at Syracuse was .500.

 

At least these critiques aren't as scattershot as they used to be.

 

I said that Brandon gets more face-time than the GM (of Football). The front office is screwed up regardless of how much press time the GM is made available for.

 

No one's been more wrong on this board in recent memory than you. And no one keeps defending this team more fervently than you do.

 

Brandon has never made a football decision; he didn't hire Marrone. He recommended Marrone to Nix/Whaley, and they hired him.

 

Even in Brandon's time as "GM", he wasn't making football decisions; that fell to Modrak and Guy.

 

You don't have to believe me; it's the truth.

 

Brandon has no desire to make football decisions; he has always been about empowering his football guys to do their jobs.

 

Who did hire Marrone? Was it Nix? The guy being eased into retirement in early 2013? Or was it the Assistant GM, ostensibly being groomed for the position at that time? Or was it the recently "empowered" Russ Brandon who took to the microphone at Marrone's intro PC to tell the world what the team had decided on. If you read between the lines, it's clear Brandon was the biggest vote in the aforementioned triumvirate of 3.

 

People believe whatever Russ Brandon tells them to. Where he gets credibility is beyond me, given his penchant for promising so much and delivering so little.

[thebandit27]

Who did hire Marrone? Was it Nix? The guy being eased into retirement in early 2013? Or was it the Assistant GM, ostensibly being groomed for the position at that time? Or was it the recently "empowered" Russ Brandon who took to the microphone at Marrone's intro PC to tell the world what the team had decided on. If you read between the lines, it's clear Brandon was the biggest vote in the aforementioned triumvirate of 3.

 

People believe whatever Russ Brandon tells them to. Where he gets credibility is beyond me, given his penchant for promising so much and delivering so little.

 

The Marrone call was a combined opinion of Nix/Whaley...take it for what it's worth. Could Russ have vetoed any other decision? Technically yes. Would he? Based on what I've been told I'd be utterly shocked. That's just not his management style.

 

As for Russ, he's been a great find for the team from a business perspective. He kept the team economically viable in a tough time when they weren't winning. The downside with Russ having the power he did was that he put lousy football people in charge of major decisions. Modrak and Guy were awful, Buddy Nix was behind the times. Once Russ was given autonomy in January of 2013, he did some smart things like elevating Whaley and giving him carte blanche to revamp the scouting department and facilities (both were sorely needed).

[reddogblitz]

Yes, I presume the removal of Marrone will come as a part of whatever restructuring is done after the Pegulas have their consultant analyze the operation from the top down.

 

When is this analysis going to happen? If you're going to fire a coach, you have to do it the day after the season is over. Otherwise by the time you get around to reading your analysis in March, all the good coaches are gone.

 

If this "analysis" includes evaluating and making decision on next year's HC, they better be working on it now and starting to wrap it up.

[8-8 Forever?]

This^

 

Additionally, the Buffalo Bills are in dire need of a NFL caliber quarterback and an NFL caliber offensive line. Without these two components the Bills end up 3rd best in the AFC East - at best.

+1. A good O-line draft, find a QB, make Schwartz HC and get a creative OC and we are good. Not that big an ask. Schwartz becomes Pegula's guy, Marrone and Hackett are out, the draft is the draft. Finding a QB is the tough part. If EJ is not going to cut it, then trade for a guy who fits what the new OC wants to do. No QBs coming from the draft this year.

 

While I think there's some merit to what you're saying, I can only speak to what I know. Folks I've spoken to that work (or in one case used to work) for other organizations tell me that Whaley would very likely get another GM job in short order if he weren't retained here.

 

As to his handling of the QB position, that's a tough one. I understand why he picked EJ. When he was given control in January of 2013, there was nothing resembling a possible franchise QB on the roster. He understands that drafting a guy is the best chance, so he uses his 1st draft pick to take a shot at the guy he thought had the best chance to become a franchise QB. So far, it looks like he picked (a) a guy that probably won't become one, and (b) the guy that probably did have the best chance at becoming one (based on skill set anyway). There's also some divergence of opinion from inside the organization regarding who wanted/didn't want to bring in another QB prior to the 2014 season.

 

As for Whaley, I think when you look at the whole picture, he's done well to increase the talent on the team significantly. It's more than just what they do with their 1st round picks...netting players like Kiko, Woods, Brown, and Henderson in later rounds, and getting Jerry Hughes in a trade are savvy moves.

 

We shall see though...

Yeah, Whaley is safe. No question. His moves have been great so far. No misses that I can see. Drafts have been solid. EJ was the best prospect in a year where it appears in 20/20 hindsight now that their were possibly no prospects at all. So they tried. I can see them not signing Orton and going in yet another direction with a new OC and QB to fit the new guy. Draft O Line in round 2 this year. They are building a team. They are almost there. Give it three more games and we will know. They need to run the table. Might be able to do it. Every week is a new week.

Edited December 8, 2014 by 8and8Forever

[PolishDave]

The original poster presumes that Pegula is going to be the one deciding who the head coach is going to be.

 

I disagree with that assumption.

 

I think it is completely plausible that Pegula's consultants tell him to retain Doug Whaley and to allow DW to have full authority to continue reshaping this team into a winner.

 

And if he does that, then it will be up to Doug Whaley to decide if Marrone stays or goes. And if Marrone is retained, it will be up to Marrone as to whether or not Hackett is back or any other assistant coach.

 

So it is very plausible that they all come back for another year at least. I happen to think it is extremely unlikely that a knowledgeable consultant would advise Pegula to fire everyone. My intuition tells me that is about the dumbest advice he could be given, especially based on performance.

[34-78-83]

Brandon has never made a football decision; he didn't hire Marrone. He recommended Marrone to Nix/Whaley, and they hired him.

 

Even in Brandon's time as "GM", he wasn't making football decisions; that fell to Modrak and Guy.

 

You don't have to believe me; it's the truth.

 

Brandon has no desire to make football decisions; he has always been about empowering his football guys to do their jobs.

Truth

[eball]

The original poster presumes that Pegula is going to be the one deciding who the head coach is going to be.

 

I disagree with that assumption.

 

I think it is completely plausible that Pegula's consultants tell him to retain Doug Whaley and to allow DW to have full authority to continue reshaping this team into a winner.

 

And if he does that, then it will be up to Doug Whaley to decide if Marrone stays or goes. And if Marrone is retained, it will be up to Marrone as to whether or not Hackett is back or any other assistant coach.

 

So it is very plausible that they all come back for another year at least. I happen to think it is extremely unlikely that a knowledgeable consultant would advise Pegula to fire everyone. My intuition tells me that is about the dumbest advice he could be given, especially based on performance.

 

I didn't presume anything. Pegula is the owner so the decision comes down from him -- whether he delegates it to Whaley or not.

 

As many others have indicated in this thread, the team is not bad and doesn't lack talent -- but for the most important position on the field. The coaching on the offensive side of the ball has been offensive.

 

Unfortunately, there are many things we don't (and can't) know -- namely, the discussions that go on among Marrone, Whaley, and Hackett during the week. Maybe Hackett is telling these guys he can't do spit with Orton or this OL? Maybe Hackett wants to call different plays but Marrone is insistent? I'd be willing to bet Hackett never wanted to bench EJ in the first place.

 

Would anyone be flabbergasted if Marrone is the problem and not Hackett?

[RuntheDamnBall]

Marrone will be back. Starting over makes no sense. This team plays hard, physical football and believe it or not the head coach sets that tone. Until the team gets a real QB, the coach be it Marrone or anyone will be challenged to win.

How about "the slide"? Hard, physical football personified right there. I'm not going to argue this one is Marrone's fault, but still.

[Cash]

I don't think Hackett's a lock to be fired, at all.

 

I agree. I was having basically this same conversation with some non-Bills fans during the game yesterday. My prediction was that Whaley/Marrone are retained, Hackett maybe gets fired (50/50 he's retained), and the QB competition in 2015 is between Orton (who picks up his player option), EJ, and a mid-round draft pick.

 

Of course, a lot depends on how the team actually finishes. If we lose out and finish 7-9, I think Marrone is likely gone, especially if the team seems to have quit on him. If we pull off an upset and finish 9-7, then I think it's most likely that everyone comes back, and we get a bunch of positive spin about how the team is headed in the right direction, it's our first winning season since 2004, the young guys need to develop, we caught some bad breaks, etc. (In the unlikely/miraculous scenario that we finish 10-6, everyone is definitely brought back with lots of back-patting, whether we make the playoffs or not.)

 

The most likely scenario seems to be 8-8, and that's an interesting spot. Sadly, that would be the best record we've had since 2004, and a 2 game improvement over last year, so there is at least some reason for optimism there. I tend to think that the Pegulas won't rock the boat just for the sake of rocking the boat, and that if they're going to clean house (i.e., replace Brandon and/or Whaley), it won't be until after the 2015 season. I won't be shocked if I'm wrong, but I think 8-8 leads to the scenario I predicted above. If the team doesn't improve in 2015, then Marrone is gone, Whaley/Brandon probably stick around, and we probably draft a QB high.

[BackInDaDay]

hire a HC who knows that the rules allow forward passes beyond 20 yards, and O linemen downfield on runs - and let him hire somebody with a watch to get this D to the field on time

[reddogblitz]

Yeah, Whaley is safe. No question. His moves have been great so far. No misses that I can see.

 

Whaley is alright as far as I can tell. However this is a little strong IMHO. How anyone can look at our QB situation and say good job Doug is beyond me. Dumpster diving for QBs in the 4th pre season game 2 years in a row gives ZERO confidence in his ability to find us a good QB. Then he tried to upgrade our OLine this off season too. Missed pretty badly there as well. Hired Doug Marrone.

 

He's done good things as well, like the Jerry Hughes trade for example. But no misses?

[thewildrabbit]

+1. A good O-line draft, find a QB, make Schwartz HC and get a creative OC and we are good. Not that big an ask. Schwartz becomes Pegula's guy, Marrone and Hackett are out, the draft is the draft. Finding a QB is the tough part. If EJ is not going to cut it, then trade for a guy who fits what the new OC wants to do. No QBs coming from the draft this year.

 

Yeah, Whaley is safe. No question. His moves have been great so far. No misses that I can see. Drafts have been solid. EJ was the best prospect in a year where it appears in 20/20 hindsight now that their were possibly no prospects at all. So they tried. I can see them not signing Orton and going in yet another direction with a new OC and QB to fit the new guy. Draft O Line in round 2 this year. They are building a team. They are almost there. Give it three more games and we will know. They need to run the table. Might be able to do it. Every week is a new week.

I would have no problem with Schwartz as the new HC, and keeping Whaley. I squarely place all the offensive woes on the coaching staff, and their misuse of talent.

 

Whaley has missed in trading away Stevie Johnson, and trading for Mike Williams only to have this coaching staff not use him or make him play special teams. Bryce Brown is a wasted pick so far. Giving up next years #1 pick when Odell Beckham Jr is killing it recently. So far 3 other WR's are doing better then Watkins, Mike Evans, Beckham, Benjamin.

 

Then his biggest area of failure is with the offensive line. Last year it was Colin Brown, Doug Legursky. This year its Pears at RG, and Williams at LG who was a waste. The Bills draft an OT at #2 & #7, and the 7th rounder becomes the starter. Its like nobody in the entire Org knows a good lineman from a bad one.

 

Whaley has been great with the defensive players, and not so good with the offensive side of the ball. Although, I can't blame EJ's failure to develop on Whaley, as no QB has done well under this offensive coaching staff.

[RuntheDamnBall]

tons of money for Malzahn to take over the HC and offense duties, and a raise for Schwartz if he requires it.

[RealityCheck]

I don't get it. Schwartz was going to ruin the Bills defense with his "wide-9" defense before September and now he should be the head coach. Yes, very rational chain of events.