26CornerBlitz Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Disagree. Keep EJ on the bench and let him compete in the off season. This is Orton's show at the moment and it doesn't do EJ any good to have to come in only to be ridiculed if he doesn't immediately rally them to three wins in a row. And I certainly don't want him playing in a "run for the bus" game, either. He needs to play meaningful games surrounded by teammates with meaningful expectations. GO BILLS!!! Too bad it's a show and it stinks!
plenzmd1 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 I am most certainly not "rooting for Manuel to fail." I'm not declaring him a bust. Nor do I have any illusions of Orton being any sort of long term answer. I just have a memory. If there was some reason I should believe that Manuel is, right now, a better option at QB, I would change my mind. So far, at least on this thread, what I have read is a lot of selective criticism of Orton, paired with selective excuses for Manuel. , that our O-line had been the slightest bit of help to our running backs, or that we had not been suffering from poor play calling. In terms of selective memory, i do believe Rocky that several of us have been highly critical of Orton...really going all the way back to the Vikings game. I really don't believe it is selective memory. In terms of the bolded..is that not the case for QB's? BTW, i thought the play calling was very good yesterday, i just think we lacked execution as they say. I just watch Orton and am not of the opinion he gives us a better chance to win. All objective stats, as well as subjective analysis, just do not lead me to think he is the better QB. I know you think different.
Rivermont Mike Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Saying anyone sucks, much less a QB, after 14 games is the definition of stupid. Dareus was a bust on this board at one point. Mario was a disappointment. Gilmore sucks according to some and he helped shut down Peyton. This boner people have to call someone a bust is silly. Especially when the same people were probably awful at their jobs after 2 years. I agree completely, C.B97. It's even worse for Bills fans because 1) they love their team, 2) they know how important the QB position is, 3) we haven't been to the playoffs for a million years, 4) they see other teams' @*#& sixth-rounders become HOF QBs, and 5) there's this pervasive "win right now" mentality. In fact, the number of first-round QBs that make an immediate impact is relatively small. I don't think that this has anything to do with the right or wrong way to develop a starting quarterback. This is about impatience and "I've given thousands of dollars to this team so I deserve _______." The QB position has been particularly bad, and I get frustrated week after week watching our D hand the ball to our O and us come away with three points or nothing. KO is the latest in a succession of disappointments, most of whom never had a prayer because they were surrounded by bad coaching and questionable talent or because they were being compared to #12. How do you win in either of those scenarios? Best case scenario, IMHO, is a FA pickup of an experienced QB who actually has something to offer EJ. Also, my Christmas wish is that TSW will stop with the "EJ is a bust" nonsense. While I am waiting for that to happen, I'm going to hop on my magical unicorn (the one that farts gold coins) and take a ride to the other side of the rainbow.
sjjr Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Get the kid out there. Hopefully its clear now that it wasn't EJ holding the offense back like was said. The offensive line play has been disappointing all year, receivers are young and struggle against press coverage and the QB play has been inconsistent. Orton is a 8-8 guy and always will be. Like him or not, EJ has the potential to be better than that. We need to know if he can get there. Go Bills
Campy Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Disagree. Keep EJ on the bench and let him compete in the off season. This is Orton's show at the moment and it doesn't do EJ any good to have to come in only to be ridiculed if he doesn't immediately rally them to three wins in a row. And I certainly don't want him playing in a "run for the bus" game, either. He needs to play meaningful games surrounded by teammates with meaningful expectations. GO BILLS!!! Hadn't looked at it that way; strong post.
K-9 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Get the kid out there. Hopefully its clear now that it wasn't EJ holding the offense back like was said. The offensive line play has been disappointing all year, receivers are young and struggle against press coverage and the QB play has been inconsistent. Orton is a 8-8 guy and always will be. Like him or not, EJ has the potential to be better than that. We need to know if he can get there. Go Bills Watch every all 22 from this year and you will see that Sammy Watkins RARELY struggles against press man. In fact, he beats it quite easily most of the time. And that includes Revis, Haden and all the other supposed shutdown CBs he's faced this year. If we had a QB skilled enough and with balls enough to test that more frequently, it would be more obvious to everyone. GO BILLS!!!
MarkAF43 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Disagree. Keep EJ on the bench and let him compete in the off season. This is Orton's show at the moment and it doesn't do EJ any good to have to come in only to be ridiculed if he doesn't immediately rally them to three wins in a row. And I certainly don't want him playing in a "run for the bus" game, either. He needs to play meaningful games surrounded by teammates with meaningful expectations. GO BILLS!!! The Bills still have a shot at going 10-6. The next 3 games are quite meaningful. What is gained by leaving Orton in? And do you or anyone else want EJ's next meaningful games to happen next season when he could potentially do even more damage by starting us off poorly and dooming our season from the outset?
Mr. WEO Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 It is clear that what EJ's tender psyche needs most is to be thrown in for a thrashing against the Packers. "It will be good for his development".
plenzmd1 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 It is clear that what EJ's tender psyche needs most is to be thrown in for a thrashing against the Packers. Where in the hell does this come from?????
Buffalo Beeeews Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Once we lose to Green Bay, you will get your wish, and Manuel will start in Oakland (after this week we will officially be eliminated).
Rivermont Mike Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Fact: There have been 14 quarterbacks picked in the first rounds from 2009 to 2014 who were on their team for at least one season. Four are starting and considered bona fides by their management or by analysts. 10 are considered busts, soon-to-be-replaced, disappointments or career backups. This link has career yardage, rating, and TD/INT data. The bona fides: Stafford, Newton, Luck, Tannehill The not-so-muches: Sanchez, Freeman, Bradford, Tebow, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Griffin III, Weeden, EJ The question: Given all this, is EJ a bust or is it too soon to call? If you answer "bust," back it up with data. I say that it is way too soon to make the call on this guy. To call him a bust at this point, in my opinion, is a knee-jerk reaction based on wishful thinking. If you're looking for the next "franchise quarterback" and you're hoping for the next Luck, you're going to be looking for a long time. A 28.5 percent success rate (and some of those guys on the bona fide list looked crappy their first year or two) is not really sufficient to call EJ a bust yet. Edited December 8, 2014 by Rivermont Mike
Campy Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 It is clear that what EJ's tender psyche needs most is to be thrown in for a thrashing against the Packers. "It will be good for his development". Don't know how many times you've met him (I'm thinking you haven't) but if there is one thing fans don't have to worry about with EJ it's him having a tender psyche. But your straw man game is strong, I'll give you that much.
K-9 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 The Bills still have a shot at going 10-6. The next 3 games are quite meaningful. What is gained by leaving Orton in? And do you or anyone else want EJ's next meaningful games to happen next season when he could potentially do even more damage by starting us off poorly and dooming our season from the outset? Yes, the next three games are quite meaningful. But it's Orton's ship to sail or sink at this point, from his perspective, his teammates perspective and the coaches' perspective. I don't think it's wise to put EJ in a situation where he "has" to be the savior; the minute he struggles out come the pitchforks and shovels as the mob storms One Bills Drive and demands the guillotine. Then all of a sudden it's Maneul that couldn't win the games to get us to the playoffs, it's Manuel who choked. Not a realistic situation for a kid who just isn't ready last time we saw him play. And the run for the bus games speak for themselves. So yeah, the next meaningful games for Manuel will be next season, assuming he has what it takes to win the job again. I don't agree with the idea that if Manuel wins the job again but starts off poorly, that our season is doomed at the start next year. That's what happened this year. Are you suggesting Manuel's 2-2 start which included him gift-wrapping a loss to Houston, is what doomed this season? Of course not. IMO, EJ Manuel needs to complete the process he was supposed to be going through last year. There is just no realistic upside for him in the next three games. But there's a TON of downside. When I weigh the two, I err on the side of caution. Orton made this bed, he needs to lie in it. He deserves that opportunity. GO BILLS!!!
MarkAF43 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Yes, the next three games are quite meaningful. But it's Orton's ship to sail or sink at this point, from his perspective, his teammates perspective and the coaches' perspective. I don't think it's wise to put EJ in a situation where he "has" to be the savior; the minute he struggles out come the pitchforks and shovels as the mob storms One Bills Drive and demands the guillotine. Then all of a sudden it's Maneul that couldn't win the games to get us to the playoffs, it's Manuel who choked. Not a realistic situation for a kid who just isn't ready last time we saw him play. And the run for the bus games speak for themselves. So yeah, the next meaningful games for Manuel will be next season, assuming he has what it takes to win the job again. I don't agree with the idea that if Manuel wins the job again but starts off poorly, that our season is doomed at the start next year. That's what happened this year. Are you suggesting Manuel's 2-2 start which included him gift-wrapping a loss to Houston, is what doomed this season? Of course not. IMO, EJ Manuel needs to complete the process he was supposed to be going through last year. There is just no realistic upside for him in the next three games. But there's a TON of downside. When I weigh the two, I err on the side of caution. Orton made this bed, he needs to lie in it. He deserves that opportunity. GO BILLS!!! I get your point, and I wasn't necessarily meaning myself that if EJ starts and it's poor then we're doomed, I was playing devil's advocate (same thing in response to this years 2-2 start). It is interesting to read your side of things because it seems we're both saying the same thing, just yours is you feel Orton should finish up, where my stance is I'd turn to EJ and see what the kid has learned. I can respect your opinion, and I'll be the first to admit, the complete lack of courage showed by Orton yesterday has me more bitter to him than I would've been prior to the game
plenzmd1 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Yes, the next three games are quite meaningful. But it's Orton's ship to sail or sink at this point, from his perspective, his teammates perspective and the coaches' perspective. I don't think it's wise to put EJ in a situation where he "has" to be the savior; the minute he struggles out come the pitchforks and shovels as the mob storms One Bills Drive and demands the guillotine. Then all of a sudden it's Maneul that couldn't win the games to get us to the playoffs, it's Manuel who choked. Not a realistic situation for a kid who just isn't ready last time we saw him play. And the run for the bus games speak for themselves. So yeah, the next meaningful games for Manuel will be next season, assuming he has what it takes to win the job again. I don't agree with the idea that if Manuel wins the job again but starts off poorly, that our season is doomed at the start next year. That's what happened this year. Are you suggesting Manuel's 2-2 start which included him gift-wrapping a loss to Houston, is what doomed this season? Of course not. IMO, EJ Manuel needs to complete the process he was supposed to be going through last year. There is just no realistic upside for him in the next three games. But there's a TON of downside. When I weigh the two, I err on the side of caution. Orton made this bed, he needs to lie in it. He deserves that opportunity. GO BILLS!!! nice post K-9
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 http://emccathletics...s/chadkellyyglk 47 TD's, 8 INTs, 3700 yards. Undefeated. BringBackKelly....this kid is a stud. OMG well that's a tumble. From Clemson to East Mississippi Community College Don't know how many times you've met him (I'm thinking you haven't) but if there is one thing fans don't have to worry about with EJ it's him having a tender psyche. Campy, have you met him? Why do you say that?
BillAndPhilFan Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 I am amazed that anyone can claim to know how bad (or good) EJ is. I recall staying up late at night (here in the UK) to watch the 2013 Draft and I remember the expert opinion that Buffalo had made a good choice in EJ because he had all the attributes to become “whatever sort of QB you want him to be” – given time, because he was not NFL ready yet. The ONLY thing you can say about his performances to date is that they prove that this view was correct – he was not ready to lead an NFL team. I know we had little choice but to throw him in, but to form any opinion about his long-term potential is like looking at a small child who's had a few maths lessons and then declaring that they are useless because they can't solve complex quadratic equations! I believe that we must find some way of getting EJ enough playing time, this year, to see what he can do. He has now had the time – that he always needed (and deserved) - to learn from an experienced QB (who's shown him both how to play well and how to play badly). So let's see – and THEN decide. If we don't do this, now, then we won't know until the 2015 season is well under way and, if EJ is not the answer, then we've lost yet another season.
TSOL Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 "Kyle Orton gives us the best chance to win" Bahahahahahaha!!
K-9 Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 http://emccathletics...s/chadkellyyglk 47 TD's, 8 INTs, 3700 yards. Undefeated. BringBackKelly....this kid is a stud. Let me know when he wins a game vs. ECC North. Then we'll talk. GO BILLS!!!
Garranimal Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 "Kyle Orton gives us the best chance to win" Where have I heard this before.....right before a stadium broke out in "Tebow, Tebow, Tebow" chants....and went to the playoffs....and won a home game....throwing the ball....against the #1 defense in the league. I also belief their was a "let it rip" component to that story as well.
Recommended Posts