Marrone Hackett Seal Their Fate

[Deranged Rhino]

Right. But using that "logic" Marrone doing nothing, pulling the team off the field, getting on the bus, and trying to get home earlier, would also be a good move, because...they lose either way.

 

Your numbers completely overlook the positive outcomes. It is possible to make 2 yards. And if you can't there, your season is over. What you're advocating, and what Marrone did, is conventional wisdom completely removed from the context of the game being played. At that moment in time the likely hood of getting 2 yards on Denver's defense was greater than stopping Manning from icing the win by milking the clock. Scoring was not the only way Denver could "seal" the game.

 

It was the "right" call if you're coaching not to win. It's the wrong call if you're trying to win.

 

Names.

 

Mike Williams. There's no logic to it when the team struggles as badly as it has in the redzone this year.

Edited December 8, 2014 by GreggyT

[OCinBuffalo]

Woah you are the Socrates of logical arguments. At least in your own mind

Buddy, you've contradicted your own thread title 3 times in your own thread.

 

Get a F'ing grip.

[Pondslider]

Right. But using that "logic" Marrone doing nothing, pulling the team off the field, getting on the bus, and trying to get home earlier, would also be a good move, because...they lose either way.

 

Should the Bills have punted on 4th and 16 from their 22 on their last drive?

 

If not, why? What's different other than they already had to use up all their time outs and 2 minutes on the clock when they punted on 4th and 2?

Edited December 8, 2014 by Pondslider

[The Big Cat]

Typical Bills fan mentality of the last decade plus.....acceptable being a loser. Yay! We lost but didn't get blown out! Yay! Let's celebrate.

 

This offense is an embarrassment.

 

This offense could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch better than a Chippewa hooker.

 

I don't think anyone here is arguing that the offense is anything BUT lousy. I do, however, see a clear distinction between fans who just want to throw up their hands and fire all the coaches and fans who understand that our running backs are poor, our offensive line is worse and our quarterback barely squeaks into the top ten.

[FireChan]

Your numbers completely overlook the positive outcomes. It is possible to make 2 yards. And if you can't there, your season is over. What you're advocating, and what Marrone did, is conventional wisdom completely removed from the context of the game being played. At that moment in time the likely hood of getting 2 yards on Denver's defense was greater than stopping Manning from icing the win by milking the clock. Scoring was not the only way Denver could "seal" the game.

 

It was the "right" call if you're coaching not to win. It's the wrong call if you're trying to win.

 

 

 

Mike Williams. There's no logic to it when the team struggles as badly as it has in the redzone this year.

 

Another receiver the QB can't hit when open?

 

I also disagree with the 5 minute punt. Remember when we talked about disjointed decisions? The TO called at 6 minutes was made with the belief that we had to score the next drive. Right? Then we get to 4th down and punt. Basically conceded 2 minutes of play time, as well as making an onside necessary. Jekyll and Hyde coaching to me.

[Niagara Dude]

I am sorry but you cannot punt down two scores on a 4th & 2.This guy cannot win big games, we lost against San Diego we lost against NE then against Kanas City, Miami now Denver with that defense you would think a least one of these games he could win.

[The Big Cat]

I am sorry but you cannot punt down two scores on a 4th & 2.This guy cannot win big games, we lost against San Diego we lost against NE then against Kanas City, Miami now Denver with that defense you would think a least one of these games he could win.

 

I take it you didn't watch the Minnesota or Detroit games? Only remember the close games we lost?

[Deranged Rhino]

Another receiver the QB can't hit when open?

 

That's a separate issue. Mike Williams on the field has to be accounted for by the defense way more than Hogan or anyone not named Sammy Watkins -- by reputation alone. Based on OC's question, he's the best and most obvious answer to the fact Whaley and GMs can only do so much. Ultimately the coaches have to use the roster in the way it was built. So far Marrone hasn't... at least offensively.

 

 

I also disagree with the 5 minute punt. Remember when we talked about disjointed decisions? The TO called at 6 minutes was made with the belief that we had to score the next drive. Right? Then we get to 4th down and punt. Basically conceded 2 minutes of play time, as well as making an onside necessary. Jekyll and Hyde coaching to me.

 

Exactly. I'm with you. It was the wrong call in the game and in the moment, no matter what the numbers say.

[34-78-83]

No. Once upon a time there was this little girl, I mean mod, named simon. He routinely got his ass kicked on PPP for years, by me and others. He was a laughing stock. He would get back at us by giving us invisible warning points, complete with no explanation or PM, and then we log in, and presto! Banned. So, some of started posting only on PPP, and we even started a football thread there. This way, no more girlish games(what else should we expect from the left?), and we still get to do what we do.

 

 

 

It gets even more odd then cuz I know Simon and Simon knows his football.Especially secondary play, and I don't think he deserves to be called what you calle d him (not that it would bother him). I don't and won't spend any time on PPP so ... mystery remains. Your football posts today make a lot of sense though

[coltrane34]

Buddy, you've contradicted your own thread title 3 times in your own thread.

 

Get a F'ing grip.

 

All Im saying is that it looks like by losing these close winable games with great talent, this offensive staff at the least has to be removed. Marrone wont fire Hackett. So..

[OCinBuffalo]

Your numbers completely overlook the positive outcomes. It is possible to make 2 yards. And if you can't there, your season is over.

WTF are you even saying, if we turned it over on downs there, the game, not the season, was over.

What you're advocating, and what Marrone did, is conventional wisdom completely removed from the context of the game being played.

What? The context of the game being played? Give Geno Smith the ball on our 20 yard line, he kneels it down 3 times and they kick a field goal...the game is instantly over. We had to completely stop them from scoring another single point, or the game was instantly over. That is the context in which the game was being played.

At that moment in time the likely hood of getting 2 yards on Denver's defense was greater than stopping Manning from icing the win by milking the clock. Scoring was not the only way Denver could "seal" the game.

But Denver scoring was, and remains, the worst thing that could have happened.

 

And, thank you for the new TBDism. Likely Hood. He's Robin Hood's cousin. He steals reason from otherwise rational Bills fans, and gives it to no one. He just keeps it, down in a cave, next to his JP Losman Jersey, signed Mike Mularkey Bills hat, and his "we should have never drafted Gilmore posts".

 

It was the "right" call if you're coaching not to win. It's the wrong call if you're trying to win.

Not at that spot on the field. You're giving the game away immediately, and making the time remaining irrelevant, if you don't get it. We had assets: time left to score 2 TDs, and a team full of players who were capable of pulling that off. We don't make that 4th and we are literally taking any chance our D had of stopping them, or our O had of scoring.

 

That's not good leadership in anything. You're putting your own "wisdom" ahead of your people's ability to do their jobs, and essentially telling them that when it comes down to it, you basically think they all suck at their jobs.

 

Good coaching my ass. Don't forget, part of my job is leading people, and has been for 20 years.

Mike Williams. There's no logic to it when the team struggles as badly as it has in the redzone this year.

What evidence exists that proves Hogan(um last week Red Zone TD) is a worse choice than Mike Williams?

[Fadingpain]

I don't think anyone here is arguing that the offense is anything BUT lousy. I do, however, see a clear distinction between fans who just want to throw up their hands and fire all the coaches and fans who understand that our running backs are poor, our offensive line is worse and our quarterback barely squeaks into the top ten.

 

And by this you presumably mean "close to dead last."

 

Right?

[Deranged Rhino]

What evidence exists that proves Hogan(um last week Red Zone TD) is a worse choice than Mike Williams?

Reality.

http://www.nfl.com/player/mikewilliams/2508048/careerstats

[ganesh]

Orton threw for 355 yards. He wasn't the problem. The problem was 15 runs compared to 57 pass plays.

Much of that came in garbage time. He threw two bad INTs especially the one in the end-zone. It cost us points. The second one was a lame duck throw that resulted in a TD in the ensuing series. The Bills were against all odds, playing on the road on the West Coast against one of the best teams in the league with a HOF QB who has been on fire; Thye needed to play mistake free football especially considering the calls that went against them and they blew it. Marrone, once again did not have this team prepared. The reason they stopped running the ball was that the Defense gave up a TD in under 3 minutes after half time putting them in a 18 point hole (increased to 21 soon). They had to throw the football at that point.

[flmike]

I'm not a fan of the dynamic duo, but they didn't lose us the game today. They are fairly limited with Orton in there and he just wasn't up to the task of carrying the team when it needed it. The Bills must find a good QB for next year. EJ Manuel is not going to be that QB, no matter what they think. Draft another QB and overpay a free agent next year and that might give us some hope.

 

Did anyone else notice the Broncos kind of sleep walking through this one? It almost caught up with them, but they are so much better than Buffalo, especially at home, they didn't need to even try that hard today.

[Billsguy]

I thought Hackett called a really good game. Execution was lacking.

 

It reminds me of a quote from former Tampa Bay coach John McKay when asked about his teams execution. He said in response, "I'm in favor of it!"

[Pondslider]

Not at that spot on the field. You're giving the game away immediately, and making the time remaining irrelevant, if you don't get it. We had assets: time left to score 2 TDs, and a team full of players who were capable of pulling that off. We don't make that 4th and we are literally taking any chance our D had of stopping them, or our O had of scoring.

 

A team full of players capable of what? They hadn't scored two TDs the entire game up to that point. Scoring two in 5 minutes was going to be difficult enough without losing two minutes and two time outs by giving the ball away on a makable 4th down.

[No QB - No Bueno]

Orton - this guy is counting his money, he's not in it to win games in December).

 

Wonder if Orton has the same bookie as Vanek.

[OCinBuffalo]

A team full of players capable of what? They hadn't scored two TDs the entire game up to that point. Scoring two in 5 minutes was going to be difficult enough without losing two minutes and two time outs by giving the ball away on a makable 4th down.

Um, what was the final score, and, how many TDs did we have to obtain to reach that final score?

 

This is ridiculous, you're assuming everything good, and ignoring the fact that any small thing, like a bad snap, or a open WR dropping/fumbling the ball(um do we remember last year, similar situation? Do the words Stevie Johnson ring a bell?), completely F's us.

 

I understand the temptation to go for it. But, I also win more than I lose at poker. It's called: managing temptation.

 

Reality.

http://www.nfl.com/p...048/careerstats

Reality: Hogan had a Red Zone TD last week, and a lot of other good plays today. So, what do you know that the rest of us don't?

 

Reality: Do you honestly think any manager, whose ass is on the line, even if he hates the employee, wouldn't put his best guy on the job, and would put his lesser guy there, just to prove something....to someone....somewhere....I have no idea what the rationale for that is....

 

IF that is what Marrone is IN FACT doing that(fact meaning you can prove it) then yeah, that's a problem. That's weak leadership. Hell, I'd fire him tomorrow. But, it's not fact. Once again, it's conjecture.

 

Mike Williams is not playing because......(we have no real idea why). Chris Hogan is playing, and I remember a certain Minnesota game...where Hogan literally won the damn thing with a circus catch, which was only necessary because of a badly thrown ball. I don't see how it's Hogan's fault, or Marrone's, that he is playing and Williams is sitting. I don't see Hogan being any sort of reason for doing anything, other than playing him every week.

Edited December 8, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[34-78-83]

Um, what was the final score, and, how many TDs did we have to obtain to reach that final score?

 

This is ridiculous, you're assuming everything good, and ignoring the fact that any small thing, like a bad snap, or a open WR dropping/fumbling the ball(um do we remember last year, similar situation? Do the words Stevie Johnson ring a bell?), completely F's us.

 

I understand the temptation to go for it. But, I also win more than I lose at poker. It's called: managing temptation.

 

 

Reality: Hogan had a Red Zone TD last week, and a lot of other good plays today. So, what do you know that the rest of us don't?

 

Reality: Do you honestly think any manager, whose ass is on the line, even if he hates the employee, wouldn't put his best guy on the job, and would put his lesser guy there, just to prove something....to someone....somewhere....I have no idea what the rationale for that is....

 

IF that is what Marrone is IN FACT doing(fact meaning you can prove it) then yeah, that's a problem. That's weak leadership. Hell, I'd fire him tomorrow. But, it's not fact. Once again, it's conjecture.

 

Mike Williams is not playing because......(we have no real idea why). Chris Hogan is playing, and I remember a certain Minnesota game...where Hogan literally won the damn thing with a circus catch, which was only necessary because of a badly thrown ball. I don't see how it's Hogan's fault, or Marrone's, that he is playing and Williams is sitting. I don't see Hogan being any sort of reason for doing anything, other than playing him every week.

Man you make too much sense tonight