Saxum Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 Marrone was handed this defense.....by Whaley, Pettine, and Schwartz. He and his teenage puppet have been running the offense. How's it going? To quote C.S. Lewis - “It is always the novice who exaggerates.” To quote my debate team coach - “It is always the mentally unarmed who exaggerates.” You do not like fact that Mike Williams is not playing and because coach has not explained sufficiently to you assume is personal. Because you have no facts you exaggerate age (like that is supposed to be important) to try to strengthen argument. No way should coach explain to fans or coaches his decisions unless it helps team somehow or is required by league. He explains his decision to management.
bowery4 Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 The beginning of this thread was about Mike Williams. It still does not make sense he is not on the field. I'm not speculating as to why but there is some reason why he is not out there. He had four very good seasons in Tampa. A lot of comments are coming from people who never watched him. I've seen every game he has played living here, and it makes no sense why he is not playing. It is not as if he had some HOF QB making him look better like a Brady or Manning. He had Freeman. He has great leaping ability, and did not miraculously forget how to go up and grab it. That's not my opinion, it is simply his past performance. You would think with his (Marrone) job on the line, no matter what the issue he would put anyone in who can help them win. If the earlier post is accurate that all three WR are banged up, then it makes zero sense not to put him in as a starter. I agree with everything you said but MW is injured this week and will not be suiting up (for real).
Saxum Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 I agree with everything you said but MW is injured this week and will not be suiting up (for real). They are afraid Mike Williams will go to Denver, get some legal weed and get in trouble. That is making something up like coach has something personal with Mike Williams who I was thrilled to get.
4merper4mer Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 Source? And I contend that Chan had the luxury of B. Playing absolute garbage opponents. The 2014 Bills have played 3 opponents with losing records. The 2011 Buffalo Bills played 6. The 2012 Buffalo Bills played 8!!!!! I'd say, if Marrone had that D consistently as in, they actually can do that against good teams, we'd win a Superbowl in 2 more years. So Marrone has been saddled with playing all tough teams but the defense hasn't performed yet against any tough teams. It's almost as if you are judging Marrone on a different set of standards.
Fingon Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 Now it all becomes clear to me. I can't believe he posted this. Are they in Colorado yet where it's legal??? Dude is trying to get cut. It takes 3-4 positive drug tests for marijuana for a player to even be suspended for 2 games. If Mike's not in the advanced testing program it doesn't really mean anything.
Ted William's frozen head Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 It sounds more like you and other posters are making things up because you do not like coach. This is exactly the type of person that we do not need to listen to. Calf injury? @mikerodak: Mike Williams “I’m still that guy who can score in the RZ any time I want. It’s just other people gotta see it. If they don’t somebody will
Charles Romes Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 When Hogan won the job the offense as a whole has ground to halt. The O was teaming with possibilities with the WWW wideout set that has never been tried with Orton and which had zero drops through week 3.
NoSaint Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 Signing a huge free agent for $96 million is not the same as trading them for a 6th rounder. And it actually does prove my point. Why did Seattle get a low pick? Was it because the RB in question was a problem, and a risk? Why was Manning cut? Was it because his health was a risk? Do all risks work out? I'd say, if Marrone had that D consistently as in, they actually can do that against good teams, we'd win a Superbowl in 2 more years. I don't love Marrone. I just find it odd that this guy has been loved all last year, then he punts a couple times and now he's got to go. Seems kinda knee-jerky. He wasn't loved all last year- there was a lot of let's be patient and see. As we near the end of year two, it's becoming more and more clear his strengths and weaknesses. When hired there were questions about 2 of his 3 coordinator hires, there were threads during camp about players questioning some of his philosophies, but given 1 year being a small sample and the qb injuries making it an unusual sample- reasonable people waited I still won't say he's awful but he has a lot of things that worry me long term and they aren't things that normally change.
FireChan Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 So Marrone has been saddled with playing all tough teams but the defense hasn't performed yet against any tough teams. It's almost as if you are judging Marrone on a different set of standards. Oh no, the defense has performed against some good teams. They just let up 38 to the Pats, which is a big no-no if you wanna win the Super Bowl. That's too many points. Also, the offensive and defensive rankings are different for teams. We played some toughD's early and won. Now let's play some tough offenses and win. And we're Super Bowl bound.
JohnC Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 He wasn't loved all last year- there was a lot of let's be patient and see. As we near the end of year two, it's becoming more and more clear his strengths and weaknesses. When hired there were questions about 2 of his 3 coordinator hires, there were threads during camp about players questioning some of his philosophies, but given 1 year being a small sample and the qb injuries making it an unusual sample- reasonable people waited I still won't say he's awful but he has a lot of things that worry me long term and they aren't things that normally change. What ails this team has much more to do with its roster limitations than it does with its unimaginative HC. This is an 8-8 or 9-7 caliber team. When all is said and done the team will perform to the level of its talent base. The Bills OL is below mediocre. Its starting qb is mediocre. Although the defense is an upper scale defense its sterling performances are being squandered by the limitations of the offense. What this franchise doesn't need is another turnover of the coaching staff. Starting over and then again starting over is a response that doesn't solve what is the source of this team's problesm, roster deficiencies. Is Marrone's selection of Hackett as an OC a mistake? How can anyone fairly assess Hackett when he is working with one of the worst OLs in the game and is calling plays for an inconsequential qb. The real problem isn't the playcalling but the execution of the plays. Until the personnel deficiencies are addressed focusing on the coaching staff and their strategies are fruitless.
thewildrabbit Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 The entire positional group has been totally bungled. With the money they're wasting on Mike Williams, who isn't playing despite his $3-$5M base or whatever it is, they could've just kept Stevie Johnson. Who would you rather have in the slot, Stevie Johnson or Chris Hogan, who always seems to run one yard short of where he needs to get to? And they trade up for Watkins but then feature a two TE offense that doesn't throw the ball to down the field to outside receivers. His talents have largely been wasted. Then there is Goodwin, who is getting out-produced by TJ Graham, whom they cut. These guys are clowns, folks. All of them, possibly even Whaley. I'm frustrated. Well said, and I'm also very frustrated with the offensive coaching staff. Yes, it does. Orton would have no problem utilizing Stevie's skill set, and would probably appreciate a guy who can get open consistently and past the sticks. Hogan runs an 8-yard square out on 3rd and 10 and then fumbles or drops it a good percentage of the time that he is targeted. And the next tackle he breaks will be the first one. I'm sorry, but the way this offense is designed, this team might well look better with Odell Beckham, Stevie Johnson, and next year's first round pick. If you're going to plod the ball for two yards a pop and feature two unathletic tight ends in your offense, why trade for THREE skill position players (Bryce Brown, Watkins, Mike Williams). THIS IS A BIG DEAL, because it reflects an utter lack of strategic clarity and a GM and coach who are totally out of sync with each other. NOT GOOD. All good points. I can't hardly wait for the off season to see what the Pegula's will do with their new team.
thewildrabbit Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 What ails this team has much more to do with its roster limitations than it does with its unimaginative HC. This is an 8-8 or 9-7 caliber team. When all is said and done the team will perform to the level of its talent base. The Bills OL is below mediocre. Its starting qb is mediocre. Although the defense is an upper scale defense its sterling performances are being squandered by the limitations of the offense. What this franchise doesn't need is another turnover of the coaching staff. Starting over and then again starting over is a response that doesn't solve what is the source of this team's problesm, roster deficiencies. Is Marrone's selection of Hackett as an OC a mistake? How can anyone fairly assess Hackett when he is working with one of the worst OLs in the game and is calling plays for an inconsequential qb. The real problem isn't the playcalling but the execution of the plays. Until the personnel deficiencies are addressed focusing on the coaching staff and their strategies are fruitless. Man, John. I would think a change to a good experienced NFL OC would be the difference between George Edwards / Dave wannstedt vs Mike Pettine / Jim Schwartz was to the defense. This coaching staff has had two years to coach up the players, or tell the GM these players aren't good enough. Instead you get guys like Colin Brown out of the practice field and Marrone right out there with him "hand on" showing him what to do. Right up until they cut him after week six last year. Marrone is a supposed O line guru, and its the worst area of the team by far. I've come to the conclusion this HC doesn't know the difference between a good O line player, and bad player if his job depended on it, and it does. Marrone says he will play his best players, and yet Cyril Richardson was out there how many games before he was replaced by the better player in Urbik. I also have a tough time believing that Chis Hogan is a better player in any aspect over Mike Williams. Even if the Bill had the best O line in the league, exactly how is predictably running up the middle 60 to 70% of the time going to win games? That is, if the current OC would stop calling pass plays long enough to utilize a good run game. This still isn't going to find a way to get Spiller in space, nor is it going to allow Sammy Watkins to play up to his potential if he continues to be used as a decoy. Really good coaches like Chip Kelly find a way to get the most out of their players, and even QB bums like Mark Sanchez. A HC like Chip Kelly wouldn't have gone into a second season with Pears, Urbik on the roster...much less them starting, and Pears at RG is a complete joke. i'm not afraid of change because this isn't the same owner who will hire bottom of the barrel head coaches. I could see Schwartz getting promoted to HC, and then finding top assistants to coach the offense, defense. Like Rex Ryan as DC and if they should get fired Trestman or Whisenhunt as OC.
fridge Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 Sort of in shock reading some people defend Williams' lack of playing time. I find no way to justify it. At the end of the day, politics aside this is football, and if Marrone really believes in their best man plays philosphy , then MW belongs on the field. I don't recall any time on the field since EJ was removed. Kind of strange to bench a guy after an 80 yard touchdown. I guess Hogan's 8 yard screens are just that well executed. What a joke.
GG Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 Source? Talk shows in the offseason where Whaley talked about the back up plan they put in place once it became obvious that Pettine was leaving. I'm guessing you also think that it was Marrone all on his own who finally decided to hire a QNB coach? And I contend that Chan had the luxury of A. Career years out of both his RB's. Yes, he gets credit for that, but it's not as though Freddy or Spiller had consistent good years with Chan. B. Playing absolute garbage opponents. The 2014 Bills have played 3 opponents with losing records. The 2011 Buffalo Bills played 6. The 2012 Buffalo Bills played 8!!!!! C. Garbage time. Oh Channy, racking up 14 extra points down 40 to the Jets? A quick 17 in the 4th down 50 to the Hawks? The Chan offense was not good. You can spout whatever stats will have you, it was gimmicky crap that could blow out hot opponents like the eventual 2-14 Chiefs, but the second they played a high ranking D, they folded like wet cardboard. Compared to how our offense has played against high ranked defenses, I'd take Marrone any day of the week facing a top 10 defense. So Marrone hasn't bucked the trend anymore than Chan did. Except Chan was lucky, in the sense his offense only failed a little less than his defense. What does this have to do with Gailey? We're talking about Marrone, and the first Bills coach in a generation to buck the trend of his unit's specialty regressing, despite getting better talent on paper. And as for Gaiey, you're acting as if the two RBs and QB enjoying career years and a previously mediocre OL suddenly playing well was by coincidental accident.
FireChan Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 Talk shows in the offseason where Whaley talked about the back up plan they put in place once it became obvious that Pettine was leaving. I'm guessing you also think that it was Marrone all on his own who finally decided to hire a QNB coach? What does this have to do with Gailey? We're talking about Marrone, and the first Bills coach in a generation to buck the trend of his unit's specialty regressing, despite getting better talent on paper. And as for Gaiey, you're acting as if the two RBs and QB enjoying career years and a previously mediocre OL suddenly playing well was by coincidental accident. Am I? Maybe you didn't read my post. What does this have to do with Gailey? I'm disproving that such a trend exists, and he's a former HC, no?
GG Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 Am I? Maybe you didn't read my post. What does this have to do with Gailey? I'm disproving that such a trend exists, and he's a former HC, no? What trend are you talking about? The one where the defenses were good under Wade, Greggo & Jauron and offenses were good under Mularkey & Gailey? And under Marrone?
FireChan Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) What trend are you talking about? The one where the defenses were good under Wade, Greggo & Jauron and offenses were good under Mularkey & Gailey? And under Marrone? Yeah, they weren't good under Gailey. Just less bad than the defense. That trend hasn't existed. And even if you think it does, Marrone has a higher win percentage than all those coaches. Maybe being less like them is a good thing. Also, the defense has way more money and high draft picks invested in it. Don't we have the most first rounders on defense out of the entire NFL? And the at-the-time biggest defensive contract in history in Mario Williams? If this offense was a better unit than the defense, I would want everyone fired. Wouldn't you? Edited December 6, 2014 by FireChan
GG Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 Yeah, they weren't good under Gailey. Just less bad than the defense. That trend hasn't existed. And even if you think it does, Marrone has a higher win percentage than all those coaches. Maybe being less like them is a good thing. Also, the defense has way more money and high draft picks invested in it. Don't we have the most first rounders on defense out of the entire NFL? And the at-the-time biggest defensive contract in history in Mario Williams? If this offense was a better unit than the defense, I would want everyone fired. Wouldn't you? Give Marrone Wannstedt's defense (with mostly the same players,btw) and let's talk then.
FireChan Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) Give Marrone Wannstedt's defense (with mostly the same players,btw) and let's talk then. Who hired Wannstedt? Remember "Fire George Edwards, anyone could be better!" Do you? Edited December 6, 2014 by FireChan
GG Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 Who hired Wannstedt? Remember "Fire George Edwards, anyone could be better!" Do you? Ralph Wilson's inner circle. Wannstedt was the closest warm body. That the Bills went out and sought Schwartz, as opposed to turning over to Henderson is a sign that things were different.
Recommended Posts