Mike Williams. Ugh. Just ugh.

[Kelly the Dog]

Why was Jeffrey our fourth choice at QB then? I mean, no doubt Marrone thought Jeff Tuel had something to offer, but I'm sure Whaley was on board with trying to develop the kid. It's not like we went into the season with the plan as Tuel being the number two. Hell, the plan was for EJ to not see the field all year, it's hard to believe Jeff Tuel was in the plan at all for the short term.

I don't know the reasons for sure without being told them or being there. What I think happened was that Marrone and Hackett had great success with molding Ryan Nassib at Syracuse out of nothing and out of limited skills. Part of the reason EJ was the pick of Marrone as well as Whaley was he was the best slab of clay to work from. All of those QBs had clear limitations but EJs size, athleticism, arm, work ethic, etc, excited Marrone to no end because he thought of himself as a miracle worker. And when Tuel came to camp, Marrone saw Tuel as Nassib but with a little better arm and head. So Marrone convinced Whaley we don't need anyone else. I can make this guy good.

 

That is the ONLY scenario that makes any sense to me from all of the moves made by the team in total.

 

Marrone was never enamored with Jeff Tuel or Thad Lewis. And that argument he and Whaley had on the sidelines at camp was all about Marrone being pissed about getting Jordan Palmer rather than Orton at the time. Marrone wanted Orton far earlier in the process.

 

I'm not sure where this idea came from that Marrone fancies himself some sort of QB guru that can take any sow's ear and make a silk purse out of to the point he will DELIBERATELY ignore suggestions by Whaley that perhaps we need better talent at the position instead. It's Whaley's job to supply the talent, regardless.

 

GO BILLS!!!

We will have to agree to disagree. I have good reason to believe that Marrone was the guy that loved Tuel more than Whaley.

 

Furthermore, that could not have been the argument IMO. There was zero chance that Orton was going to sign with anyone at that time, and Marrone would have known that. He couldn't have been pissed it was Palmer, there was no chance Orton would have signed (unless they gave him 10 million or something, which no one would)

Edited December 6, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[K-9]

I agree with that for the most part. I think that Marrone has final say. But what I don't think happened is Marrone came up with this brilliant idea of Mike Pettine on his own and he was the only one responsible. In a way, it was a no brainer. He was easily the best guy on the market at the time. He turned down the Jets extension to become a DC on his own. He would have been the #1 choice of all four of them independently, and he was impressed that all four of them came down to schmooze him.

 

I do, however, think that Pettine was very happy to join a Marrone staff, because Marrone was a young guy like him, who was entirely offensive minded as a coach, who would let Pettine do what e wanted with the defense. So I think Pettine wanted Marrone as much as Marrone wanted Pettine, and Pettine wanted Mario and Kyle and Dareus as much as he wanted Marrone. The Bills were always a stepping stone to a HC job for Pettine, it just started quicker than anyone thought.

 

During his interview process, Marrone was asked about his ideas on staffing and he named Pettine as one of his targets. This is routine. I don't understand, other than the "Marrone is an idiot" narrative, why it's so hard to accept.

 

No doubt Pettine was excited to get this front four. Who wouldn't be. Great selling point.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[FireChan]

I don't know the reasons for sure without being told them or being there. What I think happened was that Marrone and Hackett had great success with molding Ryan Nassib at Syracuse out of nothing and out of limited skills. Part of the reason EJ was the pick of Marrone as well as Whaley was he was the best slab of clay to work from. All of those QBs had clear limitations but EJs size, athleticism, arm, work ethic, etc, excited Marrone to no end because he thought of himself as a miracle worker. And when Tuel came to camp, Marrone saw Tuel as Nassib but with a little better arm and head. So Marrone convinced Whaley we don't need anyone else. I can make this guy good.

 

That is the ONLY scenario that makes any sense to me from all of the moves made by the team in total.

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree. I have good reason to believe that Marrone was the guy that loved Tuel more than Whaley.

 

We don't need anyone else to be our 4th string QB? Because that's what Tuel was. I don't understand how you think Jeff Tuel seeing the field was anything other than bad luck.

 

For the record, I thought Tuel played pretty well for the first half of the KC game last season. So I could be biased. But I don't see how taking a flier on a young guy who got worked out by other organizations is a negative. I mean, who do you want at 4th string? Jordan Palmer? Trent?

[Kelly the Dog]

During his interview process, Marrone was asked about his ideas on staffing and he named Pettine as one of his targets. This is routine. I don't understand, other than the "Marrone is an idiot" narrative, why it's so hard to accept.

 

No doubt Pettine was excited to get this front four. Who wouldn't be. Great selling point.

 

GO BILLS!!!

That's not hard to accept. It's hard to accept this was all Marrone. It was an obvious choice for everyone.

 

We don't need anyone else to be our 4th string QB? Because that's what Tuel was. I don't understand how you think Jeff Tuel seeing the field was anything other than bad luck.

 

For the record, I thought Tuel played pretty well for the first half of the KC game last season. So I could be biased. But I don't see how taking a flier on a young guy who got worked out by other organizations is a negative. I mean, who do you want at 4th string? Jordan Palmer? Trent?

He was third string and then second string. There is zero chance if I was GM I would have went with that, unless my HC who is allegedly an offensive guru and had done it before the last year in college made a very convincing argument "I got this. Nate and I did it last year with Ryan. We can win with this guy. Trust me."

[K-9]

I don't know the reasons for sure without being told them or being there. What I think happened was that Marrone and Hackett had great success with molding Ryan Nassib at Syracuse out of nothing and out of limited skills. Part of the reason EJ was the pick of Marrone as well as Whaley was he was the best slab of clay to work from. All of those QBs had clear limitations but EJs size, athleticism, arm, work ethic, etc, excited Marrone to no end because he thought of himself as a miracle worker. And when Tuel came to camp, Marrone saw Tuel as Nassib but with a little better arm and head. So Marrone convinced Whaley we don't need anyone else. I can make this guy good.

 

That is the ONLY scenario that makes any sense to me from all of the moves made by the team in total.

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree. I have good reason to believe that Marrone was the guy that loved Tuel more than Whaley.

 

That may be true but that's a far cry from suggesting that Marrone convinced everyone that he could make Tuel some sort of star QB. I know for a fact that the friction between Whaley and Marrone over the QBs on this team goes back to last year when Kolb to hurt and Marrone first voiced his concern over depth at the position. He never wanted Manuel to have to start the season and he went to the mat arguing for a veteran QB to come in when Kolb went down. A combination of it being 10 days before the season opener and no clear-cut veteran options available at the time forced their hand to enter the season with what we had. And, quite frankly, Manuel was showing enough progress early to provide a measure of confidence at the position.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[FireChan]

That's not hard to accept. It's hard to accept this was all Marrone. It was an obvious choice for everyone.

 

 

He was third string and then second string. There is zero chance if I was GM I would have went with that, unless my HC who is allegedly an offensive guru and had done it before the last year in college made a very convincing argument "I got this. Nate and I did it last year with Ryan. We can win with this guy. Trust me."

 

Technically yes. In reality, no. Kolb was supposed to start as the vet, with EJ behind him and Jeff as the third string. Then, Kolb got hurt, so EJ was the starter, Thad Lewis was the back-up after he got acclimated to the playbook, then Jeff again. Then EJ and Thad both got hurt, and voila, he played. He was the 4th choice to play QB.

 

Also, why was the Pettine hire obvious? I mean, yeah Pettine was the DC for a coach who was all about the defense. Pettine had slowly been fazed out of calling the defensive plays in NY the two seasons prior to 2013. That'd be like hiring Modkins as an OC and calling it obvious (if Chan's offense was any good.)

Edited December 6, 2014 by FireChan

[Kelly the Dog]

Technically yes. In reality, no. Kolb was supposed to start as the vet, with EJ behind him and Jeff as the third string. Then, Kolb got hurt, so EJ was the starter, Thad Lewis was the back-up after he got acclimated to the playbook, then Jeff again. Then EJ and Thad both got hurt, and voila, he played. He was the 4th choice to play QB.

 

Also, why was the Pettine hire obvious? I mean, yeah Pettine was the DC for a coach who was all about the defense. Pettine had slowly been fazed out of calling the defensive plays in NY the two seasons prior to 2013. That'd be like hiring Modkins as an OC and calling it obvious (if Chan's offense was any good.)

Agree totally. I was talking about after Kolb got hurt. And even after EJ got hurt the first time and Tuel was one play away from having to play.

 

Pettine quit (or turned down an extension) because he was going to be hired as a DC. That was obvious to everyone.

 

He wasnt close to a Modkins kind of guy.

[FireChan]

Agree totally. I was talking about after Kolb got hurt. And even after EJ got hurt the first time and Tuel was one play away from having to play.

 

Pettine quit (or turned down an extension) because he was going to be hired as a DC. That was obvious to everyone.

 

He wasnt close to a Modkins kind of guy.

 

Sure he was. But I don't know how you can fault the staff for that. Thad was signed right after the Kolb injury by the way, he just wasn't ready to play. How many good third or 4th options are there at any position in the NFL, let alone QB? Every team in the NFL is two QB injuries away from a garbage or completely over his head player.

 

Are you sure about that? I thought the Rex defense was always in the hands of Rex. Not saying that Pettine didn't play a part in NY, but obvious? I don't know.

[K-9]

I don't know the reasons for sure without being told them or being there. What I think happened was that Marrone and Hackett had great success with molding Ryan Nassib at Syracuse out of nothing and out of limited skills. Part of the reason EJ was the pick of Marrone as well as Whaley was he was the best slab of clay to work from. All of those QBs had clear limitations but EJs size, athleticism, arm, work ethic, etc, excited Marrone to no end because he thought of himself as a miracle worker. And when Tuel came to camp, Marrone saw Tuel as Nassib but with a little better arm and head. So Marrone convinced Whaley we don't need anyone else. I can make this guy good.

 

That is the ONLY scenario that makes any sense to me from all of the moves made by the team in total.

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree. I have good reason to believe that Marrone was the guy that loved Tuel more than Whaley.

 

Furthermore, that could not have been the argument IMO. There was zero chance that Orton was going to sign with anyone at that time, and Marrone would have known that. He couldn't have been pissed it was Palmer, there was no chance Orton would have signed (unless they gave him 10 million or something, which no one would)

 

I don't know what to say then. Believe what you will. Talks with Orton had been ongoing since his release from the Cowboys in late July. Can't blame Orton for waiting as long as he could. And while there were other frustrations and people involved in that sideline argument, Marrone was miffed at having to settle for Jordan Palmer when Orton had been an FA for a month at that point. Marrone was pissed been for several days leading up to that blowup at camp.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited December 6, 2014 by K-9

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

Marrone was never enamored with Jeff Tuel or Thad Lewis. And that argument he and Whaley had on the sidelines at camp was all about Marrone being pissed about getting Jordan Palmer rather than Orton at the time. Marrone wanted Orton far earlier in the process.

 

I'm not sure where this idea came from that Marrone fancies himself some sort of QB guru that can take any sow's ear and make a silk purse out of to the point he will DELIBERATELY ignore suggestions by Whaley that perhaps we need better talent at the position instead. It's Whaley's job to supply the talent, regardless.

 

GO BILLS!!!

i agree. I always assumed Marrone wanted Orton. The whole thing about the blowup being because Whaley signed orton and Marrone thought he didn't need him never made sense to me and seemed to be a media creation. If anyone has a source that knows Marrone thought going into the season with EJ, Tuel and the equivalent of Thad/Jordan Palmer would get them a winnin record, I would be interested in hearing that. The guy never said he was a QB guru who could make it work with anyone. I don't know where that comes from. Edited December 6, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[Kelly the Dog]

Sure he was. But I don't know how you can fault the staff for that. Thad was signed right after the Kolb injury by the way, he just wasn't ready to play. How many good third or 4th options are there at any position in the NFL, let alone QB? Every team in the NFL is two QB injuries away from a garbage or completely over his head player.

 

Are you sure about that? I thought the Rex defense was always in the hands of Rex. Not saying that Pettine didn't play a part in NY, but obvious? I don't know.

1] IMO Jeff Tuel sucked and always sucked. He was terrible in college and benched his senior season by a real QB guru. He did nothing exceptional. He wasn't drafted. He wasn't at all great when people here said he looked great during preseason, even on a few TD passes. There was absolutely nothing to suggest he could play in the NFL and he shouldn't even be in the league right now. Everyone in the league can throw passes with no rush to wide open receivers. He even surprised me by his play against KC only to prove my point by the ridiculous pass at the goalline to lose it. As well as the Browns game.

 

So to me, even the idea he is one play away from having to play in the NFL games is negligence. I blame that on Whaley because he was responsible for the roster although as I said I believe that Marrone convinced him.All GMs and HCs are going to disagree and argue at times, it's inevitable.

 

I don't know what to say then. Believe what you will. Talks with Orton had been ongoing since his release from the Cowboys in late July. Can't blame Orton for waiting as long as he could. And while there were other frustrations and people involved in that sideline argument, Marrone was miffed at having to settle for Jordan Palmer when Orton had been an FA for a month at that point. Marrone was pissed been for several days leading up to that blowup at camp.

 

GO BILLS!!!

There was zero chance that Orton was going to go to any team for any money until the Thursday after the final preseason game barring catastrophic injury to starter. None. He wanted a starting job. There was no way Marrone didn't know that. The Bills kept calling him and upping their offer all through the summer but I guarantee they knew he wasn't going to sign until he knew there was not an injury to a starter like Sam Bradford (on a team like the Bills without a solid backup) where he could waltz in and be the starter opening day.

 

So to me, there is zero chance that Marrone was pissed at Whaley for not getting Orton. That makes no sense.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[NoSaint]

 

 

I'm referring to the sheer personnel Whaley supplied at the position in the form of Manuel, who should have been doing what he is now, Lewis, and Tuel. Kolb injury or not, that is FUBAR. Has nothing to do with Marrone's decision to add to his staff or not.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

What about tjax? I imagine once on the roster marrone had say on his departure

[4merper4mer]

i agree. I always assumed Marrone wanted Orton. The whole thing about the blowup being because Whaley signed orton and Marrone thought he didn't need him never made sense to me and seemed to be a media creation. If anyone has a source that knows Marrone thought going into the season with EJ, Tuel and the equivalent of Thad/Jordan Palmer would get them a winnin record, I would be interested in hearing that. The guy never said he was a QB guru who could make it work with anyone. I don't know where that comes from.

 

I have not exactly been pro Marrone but I agree with the above. He has not bragged specifically about his prowess with QBs. Aside from beatifying himself, I have not seen his as arrogant so to speak. He seems more prone to thinking he is smarter than everyone else, not better than everyone else.

 

The bottom line s that he is 28 games into his tenure and we continue as fans to be mystified on a weekly basis about player selection and play calling and all while the defense is having a championship caliber year. Show me a team with a CHAMPIONSHIP caliber defense...not a playoff defense, a championship defense...that can't even make the playoffs and I'll show you a clueless offensive coaching staff. That, my friends, is what we have.

[machine gun kelly]

They are afraid Mike Williams will go to Denver, get some legal weed and get in trouble.

 

That is making something up like coach has something personal with Mike Williams who I was thrilled to get.

 

His issues in Tampa were not about weed. They were him acting like a knucklehead in a nice suburban community in North Tampa having late night parties, ticking off his neighbors, cops called on multiple occasions. his brother accidentally stabbed in the leg at his house, and so on. Lovie had no patience for it and moved on.

[K-9]

1] IMO Jeff Tuel sucked and always sucked. He was terrible in college and benched his senior season by a real QB guru. He did nothing exceptional. He wasn't drafted. He wasn't at all great when people here said he looked great during preseason, even on a few TD passes. There was absolutely nothing to suggest he could play in the NFL and he shouldn't even be in the league right now. Everyone in the league can throw passes with no rush to wide open receivers. He even surprised me by his play against KC only to prove my point by the ridiculous pass at the goalline to lose it. As well as the Browns game.

 

So to me, even the idea he is one play away from having to play in the NFL games is negligence. I blame that on Whaley because he was responsible for the roster although as I said I believe that Marrone convinced him.All GMs and HCs are going to disagree and argue at times, it's inevitable.

 

 

There was zero chance that Orton was going to go to any team for any money until the Thursday after the final preseason game barring catastrophic injury to starter. None. He wanted a starting job. There was no way Marrone didn't know that. The Bills kept calling him and upping their offer all through the summer but I guarantee they knew he wasn't going to sign until he knew there was not an injury to a starter like Sam Bradford (on a team like the Bills without a solid backup) where he could waltz in and be the starter opening day.

 

So to me, there is zero chance that Marrone was pissed at Whaley for not getting Orton. That makes no sense.

 

There was a 100% chance of signing Orton earlier had we agreed to his asking price early on. But there was much to be revealed about our QBs at the time of Orton's release and Whaley didn't feel any overwhelming sense of urgency. There wasn't a line of teams waiting at Orton's door, either.

 

As the poor QB play continued as the preseason played on, it was becoming increasingly clear we needed to bring someone in. Marrone lobbied hard for Orton the entire time, basically the entire preseason. And when Whaley signed Palmer, after the 4th preseason game it pissed him off. Orton had been an FA for over a month by then. One could argue it was the signing of Palmer that woke Orton up, too. Palmer signed on the 26th, was released 3 days later, and then the Orton signing announced the following day? Hmm.

 

There was ZERO chance of Orton being a starter by opening day, anyway. Especially by waiting until the last minute for a team to sign him. Only a catastrophic situation would have provided Orton a starting opportunity with any team in the league. And it's something the Bills never promised him, either.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[machine gun kelly]

I agree with everything you said but MW is injured this week and will not be suiting up (for real).

 

I read about his injury after posting but thanks. I've been frustrated with not using him when we are clearly deficient in the red zone. This smells of an Urbik issue, but we'll never know. I understand we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. If his calf is ok next week, he should play against the Packers. They won't game plan for him, so he could surprise them.

[K-9]

What about tjax? I imagine once on the roster marrone had say on his departure

 

Not unusual for a HC to prefer certain players at certain positions. But that would be a good question for him now as well; does Marrone regret cutting Jackson so early on? Given how the situation panned out, easy to think Marrone screwed up that decision. Too many eggs in the Kolb/promising draft pick basket.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

There was a 100% chance of signing Orton earlier had we agreed to his asking price early on. But there was much to be revealed about our QBs at the time of Orton's release and Whaley didn't feel any overwhelming sense of urgency. There wasn't a line of teams waiting at Orton's door, either.

 

As the poor QB play continued as the preseason played on, it was becoming increasingly clear we needed to bring someone in. Marrone lobbied hard for Orton the entire time, basically the entire preseason. And when Whaley signed Palmer, after the 4th preseason game it pissed him off. Orton had been an FA for over a month by then. One could argue it was the signing of Palmer that woke Orton up, too. Palmer signed on the 26th, was released 3 days later, and then the Orton signing announced the following day? Hmm.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

I respect you a ton as a poster, so again, we will have to agree to disagree and end this particular exchange. The money the Bills offered would not have swayed Orton earlier. He wanted to see if he could start. Period. He played the game perfectly. There is no way if he was offered the 5m he would have signed earlier. The money wasn't the issue with him and never was. It was the chance to play. He had only played one game in two full years. He felt his career slipping away. He would have gone to any team that gave him the chance to start. That was only going to happen if the starter, which every team had, got hurt.

 

There was NOTHING to the fact that Jordan Palmer was there and the three days. The only day that mattered was Thursday, when every team played. When no starters were hurt, Orton chose the team that a) had the best chance for him to play because their starter was shaky and b) a way less determining factor, who offered a good deal. The Bills, after that Thursday, was a no brainer for Orton. The probably didnt have to up their offer they just wanted to get the deal done.

 

And when I said opening day starter that included if, for some reason, the two weeks was not going to be enough time. You know what that means.

[K-9]

I respect you a ton as a poster, so again, we will have to agree to disagree and end this particular exchange. The money the Bills offered would not have swayed Orton earlier. He wanted to see if he could start. Period. He played the game perfectly. There is no way if he was offered the 5m he would have signed earlier. The money wasn't the issue with him and never was. It was the chance to play. He had only played one game in two full years. He felt his career slipping away. He would have gone to any team that gave him the chance to start. That was only going to happen if the starter, which every team had, got hurt.

 

There was NOTHING to the fact that Jordan Palmer was there and the three days. The only day that mattered was Thursday, when every team played. When no starters were hurt, Orton chose the team that a) had the best chance for him to play because their starter was shaky and b) a way less determining factor, who offered a good deal. The Bills, after that Thursday, was a no brainer for Orton. The probably didnt have to up their offer they just wanted to get the deal done.

 

And when I said opening day starter that included if, for some reason, the two weeks was not going to be enough time. You know what that means.

 

You are projecting a lot of romanticized notions on Orton's motivation. Look, it's not like he had all these suitors and leverage, he didn't. But if the Bills did something crazy and threw $10m at him earlier on, are you saying Orton STILL would have waited for the best STARTING opportunity to crop up AFTER the last preseason game? The day after the last preseason game is NOT the time to sign if you have aspirations OTHER than signing as a backup. Unless some team's starter and backup get hurt, of course; the catastrophic situation I alluded to earlier.

 

I will say it one last time, Marrone was PISSED at having to settle for Palmer when Orton had been available for over a month and we had been in discussions for much of that time. Whether Whaley or Orton or both were dragging their feet didn't matter to Marrone. He was in a bad situation at the position and that's all he cared about.

 

Aug 26th, Palmer signed and participates in first practice.

 

Aug 26th, Marrone and Whaley have heated exchange on sideline at that very same practice on Jordan's first day. Hmm.

 

Aug. 29th, Palmer cut.

 

Aug 30th, Orton Signed.

 

Hmm.

 

Now you can say that Palmer's signing didn't matter and we can romanticize Ortons wanting to resurrect his career for the best opportunity and that he had all this leverage, etc. And maybe that's all true from Orton's perspective.

 

From the perspective of Marrone, who had been lobbying hard for Orton for a while, when he had to settle for Palmer, he wasn't happy and it pissed him off. Not the first time a GM didn't bring in the coach's first choice and not the first time a coach wasn't happy about it.

 

From the chronology to the way the poor QB play unfolded to the fact we had been talking to Orton for weeks, it makes perfect sense that Marrone was miffed when he thought he had to settle for Palmer. It may interest you to know that he told someone in the building not to bother with the tape cutups of Palmer, too. I think that's where the reported friction between him and Monos comes from regarding this particular incident.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

You are projecting a lot of romanticized notions on Orton's motivation. Look, it's not like he had all these suitors and leverage, he didn't. But if the Bills did something crazy and threw $10m at him earlier on, are you saying Orton STILL would have waited for the best STARTING opportunity to crop up AFTER the last preseason game? The day after the last preseason game is NOT the time to sign if you have aspirations OTHER than signing as a backup. Unless some team's starter and backup get hurt, of course; the catastrophic situation I alluded to earlier.

 

I will say it one last time, Marrone was PISSED at having to settle for Palmer when Orton had been available for over a month and we had been in discussions for much of that time. Whether Whaley or Orton or both were dragging their feet didn't matter to Marrone. He was in a bad situation at the position and that's all he cared about.

 

Aug 26th, Palmer signed and participates in first practice.

 

Aug 26th, Marrone and Whaley have heated exchange on sideline at that very same practice on Jordan's first day. Hmm.

 

Aug. 29th, Palmer cut.

 

Aug 30th, Orton Signed.

 

Hmm.

 

Now you can say that Palmer's signing didn't matter and we can romanticize Ortons wanting to resurrect his career for the best opportunity and that he had all this leverage, etc. And maybe that's all true from Orton's perspective.

 

From the perspective of Marrone, who had been lobbying hard for Orton for a while, when he had to settle for Palmer, he wasn't happy and it pissed him off. Not the first time a GM didn't bring in the coach's first choice and not the first time a coach wasn't happy about it.

 

From the chronology to the way the poor QB play unfolded to the fact we had been talking to Orton for weeks, it makes perfect sense that Marrone was miffed when he thought he had to settle for Palmer. It may interest you to know that he told someone in the building not to bother with the tape cutups of Palmer, too. I think that's where the reported friction between him and Monos comes from regarding this particular incident.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I personally believe that GMs and coaches yell at each other at the top of their lungs all the time, on all teams. So I don't think that argument was anything unusual except that they allowed it to happen in front of some people. I would bet every dollar I could get my hands on that it was Marrone because he's a hothead and often wears his emotions on his sleeve and often doesn't think too much before he talks. That's not really a criticism either. And for the most part I like Marrone. He does more good than bad.

 

If he was soooooo pissed as you say about Palmer, why would he keep him in the game after his third INT after only two days of practice. Unless, of course, he was doing it on purpose to prove a point, which is in line with accusations of holding grudges.

 

I wouldn't question the idea that Marrone was not happy with Palmer. I totally question that he was furious about not getting Orton yet for reasons stated above. Marrone liked Tuel. No one was going to offer Orton 10m. It was reported that several teams contacted and wanted him from the time he left the Cowboys and signed with the Bills. The reason was obvious why he signed when he did.