Mike Williams. Ugh. Just ugh.

[K-9]

Wannstedt was a Chan Gailey hire all the way. It was Gailey that conceived of the idea for Wanny to come in and be the "inside LBs" coach the year before Gailey promoted him to DC. The "Ralph Wilson Inner Circle" merely rubber-stamped Gailey's decision. Actually, it never went higher than Russ Brandon to give the OK.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited December 6, 2014 by K-9

[Kelly the Dog]

Wannstedt was a Chan Gailey hire all the way. It was Gailey that conceived of the idea for Wanny to come in and be the "inside LBs" coach the year before Gailey promoted him to DC. The "Ralph Wilson Inner Circle" merely rubber-stamped Gailey's decision. Actually, it never went higher than Russ Brandon to give the OK.

 

GO BILLS!!!

That is how I remember it as well. Wanny was looking for a cake job and getting back to the NFL after his experience at Pitt, and Gailey was returning the favor for Wanny hiring him as OC in Miami for 2000-2001.

[FireChan]

Wannstedt was a Chan Gailey hire all the way. It was Gailey that conceived of the idea for Wanny to come in and be the "inside LBs" coach the year before Gailey promoted him to DC. The "Ralph Wilson Inner Circle" merely rubber-stamped Gailey's decision. Actually, it never went higher than Russ Brandon to give the OK.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Can you shed any light on Marrone's involvement with the Pettine and Schwartz hirings?

[K-9]

Can you shed any light on Marrone's involvement with the Pettine and Schwartz hirings?

 

They were both Marrone hiring decisions. Marrone, like every other HC in the league except maybe Jason Garrett, has free reign on staff hirings.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[GG]

 

That is how I remember it as well. Wanny was looking for a cake job and getting back to the NFL after his experience at Pitt, and Gailey was returning the favor for Wanny hiring him as OC in Miami for 2000-2001.

 

Yes, Gailey hired Wanny for the inside LB job. I was talking about his elevation to DC, and that's why I compared his promotion to the outside hiring of Schwartz, as opposed to the likely promotion of Henderson if Ralph's cronies were still fully in charge.

 

 

 

They were both Marrone hiring decisions. Marrone, like every other HC in the league except maybe Jason Garrett, has free reign on staff hirings.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

So you are saying that the Dowling hire was all Marrone's decision without any urging from Whaley?

[FireChan]

 

 

Yes, Gailey hired Wanny for the inside LB job. I was talking about his elevation to DC, and that's why I compared his promotion to the outside hiring of Schwartz, as opposed to the likely promotion of Henderson if Ralph's cronies were still fully in charge.

 

 

 

So you are saying that the Dowling hire was all Marrone's decision without any urging from Whaley?

 

Whaley can urge all he wants. Marrone has the final say in hiring. That's that. Sorry mate.

[K-9]

Yes, Gailey hired Wanny for the inside LB job. I was talking about his elevation to DC, and that's why I compared his promotion to the outside hiring of Schwartz, as opposed to the likely promotion of Henderson if Ralph's cronies were still fully in charge.

 

 

 

So you are saying that the Dowling hire was all Marrone's decision without any urging from Whaley?

 

I didn't say there was no input from Whaley, Brandon, and others in the organization. The bottom-line hiring decision was Marrone's to make, though. The idea that Whaley, Brandon, or anyone else told Marrone he had to hire anyone on his staff is simply not true. He has free reign to accept or reject anyone's staff recommendations. There was actually talk of Marrone hiring a QB coach in '13, but Hackett convinced him he could handle that responsibility.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[GG]

 

 

I didn't say there was no input from Whaley, Brandon, and others in the organization. The bottom-line hiring decision was Marrone's to make, though. The idea that Whaley, Brandon, or anyone else told Marrone he had to hire anyone on his staff is simply not true. He has free reign to accept or reject anyone's staff recommendations. There was actually talk of Marrone hiring a QB coach in '13, but Hackett convinced him he could handle that responsibility.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

And how did that work out?

[K-9]

And how did that work out?

 

No doubt the QB situation last year was FUBAR but I put that on Whaley more than Marrone. And I don't think EJ Manuel would have been leaps and bounds better, either, as it played out. It would be a good question for Marrone that, if he had it to do over again, would he have hired a QB coach last year? The fact he hired one this year at least tells me he isn't intractable when it comes to changing his way of thinking on certain things.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[FireChan]

 

 

And how did that work out?

 

Don't worry, we'll find a coach who has never made a bad call. He's gotta be out there just pining for the Bills job, a job that is forfeit after finishing with the best record in the last decade.

[Kelly the Dog]

Whaley can urge all he wants. Marrone has the final say in hiring. That's that. Sorry mate.

Marrone could also lose his job.

 

I'm not really predicting it but depending on the next four games I could easily imagine Whaley saying to Marrone we want you to stay but we want a new OC, and then Marrone would ave to decide if he wanted to fall on his sword for Hackett.

 

Marrone and Whaley were equally all in on both the Pettine and Schwartz hires. I would argue that Pettine wasn't a Marrone hire at all. In fact, Pettine was impressed because Buddy Nix, Brandon, Whaley and Marrone all immediately got on a plane after their press conference in Buffalo announcing the Marrone hire and all four took Pettine out to dinner to schmooze him. IIRC, he said in an interview that he knew he was going to take the job almost as soon as they all started talking.

 

No doubt the QB situation last year was FUBAR but I put that on Whaley more than Marrone. And I don't think EJ Manuel would have been leaps and bounds better, either, as it played out. It would be a good question for Marrone that, if he had it to do over again, would he have hired a QB coach last year? The fact he hired one this year at least tells me he isn't intractable when it comes to changing his way of thinking on certain things.

 

GO BILLS!!!

How can you argue in one sentence that Marrone is responsible for all coaches and hires, and then say it was more Whaley's fault that they didn't have a QB coach?

[fridge]

Don't worry, we'll find a coach who has never made a bad call. He's gotta be out there just pining for the Bills job, a job that is forfeit after finishing with the best record in the last decade.

 

You do realize your own lynch-mob mentality username, right? Hypocrite.

[GG]

 

 

Don't worry, we'll find a coach who has never made a bad call. He's gotta be out there just pining for the Bills job, a job that is forfeit after finishing with the best record in the last decade.

 

Yes, that's exactly the extreme case that people are arguing.

[K-9]

Marrone could also lose his job.

 

I'm not really predicting it but depending on the next four games I could easily imagine Whaley saying to Marrone we want you to stay but we want a new OC, and then Marrone would ave to decide if he wanted to fall on his sword for Hackett.

 

Marrone and Whaley were equally all in on both the Pettine and Schwartz hires. I would argue that Pettine wasn't a Marrone hire at all. In fact, Pettine was impressed because Buddy Nix, Brandon, Whaley and Marrone all immediately got on a plane after their press conference in Buffalo announcing the Marrone hire and all four took Pettine out to dinner to schmooze him. IIRC, he said in an interview that he knew he was going to take the job almost as soon as they all started talking.

 

 

How can you argue in one sentence that Marrone is responsible for all coaches and hires, and then say it was more Whaley's fault that they didn't have a QB coach?

 

I'm referring to the sheer personnel Whaley supplied at the position in the form of Manuel, who should have been doing what he is now, Lewis, and Tuel. Kolb injury or not, that is FUBAR. Has nothing to do with Marrone's decision to add to his staff or not.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm referring to the sheer personnel Whaley supplied at the position in the form of Manuel, who should have been doing what he is now, Lewis, and Tuel. Kolb injury or not, that is FUBAR. Has nothing to do with Marrone's decision to add to his staff or not.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Got it. It's my strong opinion that was Marrone and not Whaley. I think Marrone was convinced he could make a player out of Jeff Tuel not Whaley (before and after Kolb got hurt). And I think Whaley was the one that put his foot down and said Tuel isn't cutting it (as well as Thad when he regressed and both looked lousy in OTAs), which is why he went after Orton so hard as soon as he could in mid to late July.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[FireChan]

 

 

Yes, that's exactly the extreme case that people are arguing.

 

Isn't it? By your account, Marrone's offense is squarely on him and it sucks. That's his specialty. The good on this coaching staff and team isn't really Marrone. You want him as the HC?

 

You do realize your own lynch-mob mentality username, right? Hypocrite.

 

[K-9]

Marrone could also lose his job.

 

I'm not really predicting it but depending on the next four games I could easily imagine Whaley saying to Marrone we want you to stay but we want a new OC, and then Marrone would ave to decide if he wanted to fall on his sword for Hackett.

 

Marrone and Whaley were equally all in on both the Pettine and Schwartz hires. I would argue that Pettine wasn't a Marrone hire at all. In fact, Pettine was impressed because Buddy Nix, Brandon, Whaley and Marrone all immediately got on a plane after their press conference in Buffalo announcing the Marrone hire and all four took Pettine out to dinner to schmooze him. IIRC, he said in an interview that he knew he was going to take the job almost as soon as they all started talking.

 

 

How can you argue in one sentence that Marrone is responsible for all coaches and hires, and then say it was more Whaley's fault that they didn't have a QB coach?

Marrone could also lose his job.

 

I'm not really predicting it but depending on the next four games I could easily imagine Whaley saying to Marrone we want you to stay but we want a new OC, and then Marrone would ave to decide if he wanted to fall on his sword for Hackett.

 

Marrone and Whaley were equally all in on both the Pettine and Schwartz hires. I would argue that Pettine wasn't a Marrone hire at all. In fact, Pettine was impressed because Buddy Nix, Brandon, Whaley and Marrone all immediately got on a plane after their press conference in Buffalo announcing the Marrone hire and all four took Pettine out to dinner to schmooze him. IIRC, he said in an interview that he knew he was going to take the job almost as soon as they all started talking.

 

 

How can you argue in one sentence that Marrone is responsible for all coaches and hires, and then say it was more Whaley's fault that they didn't have a QB coach?

 

Don't confuse a consensus agreement with Marrone having final say. If Marrone didn't want Pettine on his staff, he wouldn't have been. Plain and simple. And Marrone was talking up Pettine in his interviews with Brandon and Whaley in Arizona during his interview process BEFORE he agreed to take the HC job.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[FireChan]

Got it. It's my strong opinion that was Marrone and not Whaley. I think Marrone was convinced he could make a player out of Jeff Tuel not Whaley (before and after Kolb got hurt). And I think Whaley was the one that put his foot down and said Tuel isn't cutting it (as well as Thad when he regressed and both looked lousy in OTAs), which is why he went after Orton so hard as soon as he could in mid to late July.

 

Why was Jeffrey our fourth choice at QB then? I mean, no doubt Marrone thought Jeff Tuel had something to offer, but I'm sure Whaley was on board with trying to develop the kid. It's not like we went into the season with the plan as Tuel being the number two. Hell, the plan was for EJ to not see the field all year, it's hard to believe Jeff Tuel was in the plan at all for the short term.

Edited December 6, 2014 by FireChan

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Don't confuse a consensus agreement with Marrone having final say. If Marrone didn't want Pettine on his staff, he wouldn't have been. Plain and simple. And Marrone was talking up Pettine in his interviews with Brandon and Whaley in Arizona during his interview process BEFORE he agreed to take the HC job.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I agree with that for the most part. I think that Marrone has final say. But what I don't think happened is Marrone came up with this brilliant idea of Mike Pettine on his own and he was the only one responsible. In a way, it was a no brainer. He was easily the best guy on the market at the time. He turned down the Jets extension to become a DC on his own. He would have been the #1 choice of all four of them independently, and he was impressed that all four of them came down to schmooze him.

 

I do, however, think that Pettine was very happy to join a Marrone staff, because Marrone was a young guy like him, who was entirely offensive minded as a coach, who would let Pettine do what e wanted with the defense. So I think Pettine wanted Marrone as much as Marrone wanted Pettine, and Pettine wanted Mario and Kyle and Dareus as much as he wanted Marrone. The Bills were always a stepping stone to a HC job for Pettine, it just started quicker than anyone thought.

[K-9]

Got it. It's my strong opinion that was Marrone and not Whaley. I think Marrone was convinced he could make a player out of Jeff Tuel not Whaley (before and after Kolb got hurt). And I think Whaley was the one that put his foot down and said Tuel isn't cutting it (as well as Thad when he regressed and both looked lousy in OTAs), which is why he went after Orton so hard as soon as he could in mid to late July.

 

Marrone was never enamored with Jeff Tuel or Thad Lewis. And that argument he and Whaley had on the sidelines at camp was all about Marrone being pissed about getting Jordan Palmer rather than Orton at the time. Marrone wanted Orton far earlier in the process.

 

I'm not sure where this idea came from that Marrone fancies himself some sort of QB guru that can take any sow's ear and make a silk purse out of to the point he will DELIBERATELY ignore suggestions by Whaley that perhaps we need better talent at the position instead. It's Whaley's job to supply the talent, regardless.

 

GO BILLS!!!