DC Tom Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 I don't suppose that it's ever occurred to you that technology actually reduces the need for laborers but increases the need for better paying, technical jobs to maintain the automation? And reduces the cost of production, resulting in lower-cost consumer products and higher standards of living.
Keukasmallies Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 A Ha! I'm intrigued by POTUS' latest lateral arabesque regarding increasing the minimum wage. He is considering raising the minimum salary level at which employees can be classified as managers. Raising that minimum to $50,000, thus removing the manager title from the newly defrocked, makes them eligible for overtime pay. Voila! A wage increase for a significant number of newly annointed hewers of wood and drawers of water. You go, you smooth talker you!
Rob's House Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 The angry little man lashes out! No anger. I was just giving you back what you were dishing out and took it up a notch.
DC Tom Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Forward Why pay unskilled laborers to punch buttons on a touch-screen register, when you can have equally unskilled customers do the same thing? You know of any good studies that compare minimum wages to welfare participation over time? That would be an interesting area of research.
Chef Jim Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Wait a second there Poindexter, won't the capitalist economy simply create other jobs? I thought that displacement of labor was only a transition. And since the minimum wage will apply to those new jobs its all a win win Oh, this will be a disaster, ummm, ok You are a moron So you're saying that increasing a good portion of a fast food restaurant, mom and pop restaurant of corner store's labor cost by nearly 70% isn't going to be a disaster? And I'm the moron. Ok.
Tiberius Posted December 4, 2014 Author Posted December 4, 2014 So you're saying that increasing a good portion of a fast food restaurant, mom and pop restaurant of corner store's labor cost by nearly 70% isn't going to be a disaster? And I'm the moron. Ok. Yes, you are a moron, good call. And no, it won't be a disaster. What is this disaster you are conjuring up?
Chef Jim Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Yes, you are a moron, good call. And no, it won't be a disaster. What is this disaster you are conjuring up? Increasing labor costs for small businesses with tight profit margins to begin with by 70%. I thought I made that clear. BTW that's in CA some states it would increase by 100% or more. Edited December 4, 2014 by Chef Jim
GG Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 You know of any good studies that compare minimum wages to welfare participation over time? That would be an interesting area of research. Talk to an economist, they have time for wasteful endeavors
DC Tom Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Talk to an economist, they have time for wasteful endeavors I try to avoid talking to economists. Ask five economists a question, get five different answers - six if one of them is from Harvard.
GG Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 I don't suppose that it's ever occurred to you that technology actually reduces the need for laborers but increases the need for better paying, technical jobs to maintain the automation? In theory and long run, yes. But as a sage once said, "The world always needs ditch diggers" Minimum wage jobs are not meant to sustain a family. It's for unskilled entry level work that someone needs as a stepping stone to a better jobs. By eliminating those jobs, you would be eliminating the experience that a first job provides and teaching a work ethic.
Chef Jim Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 In theory and long run, yes. But as a sage once said, "The world always needs ditch diggers" Minimum wage jobs are not meant to sustain a family. It's for unskilled entry level work that someone needs as a stepping stone to a better jobs. By eliminating those jobs, you would be eliminating the experience that a first job provides and teaching a work ethic. No!! Minimum wage needs to be a living wage (whatever the !@#$ that means).
Azalin Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 In theory and long run, yes. But as a sage once said, "The world always needs ditch diggers" Minimum wage jobs are not meant to sustain a family. It's for unskilled entry level work that someone needs as a stepping stone to a better jobs. By eliminating those jobs, you would be eliminating the experience that a first job provides and teaching a work ethic. If I gave the impression that I believe minimum wage is good for anything other than entry-level and/or unskilled labor, then I didn't mean to. You do touch on something that I believe very strongly and have said often: everybody should start out washing dishes, bussing tables, sweeping floors, or something similar in order to learn a little humility. I worked in restaurants for many years earning a fraction of what I make now, and it makes me appreciate what I have and the work it took to get here.
GG Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 If I gave the impression that I believe minimum wage is good for anything other than entry-level and/or unskilled labor, then I didn't mean to. No you did not. I just extended the logic train. The big downside of improving technology is that the low skilled jobs will be the hardest hit (as always) and eliminate that good entry level learning experience.
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Yes, you are a moron, good call. And no, it won't be a disaster. What is this disaster you are conjuring up? In the most well run restaurants, 30% of all revenue goes to food costs, 30% goes to overhead (rent, mortgage, electricity, insurance, licencing, gas, etc.), and 30% goes to labor costs. This leaves a scant 10% under the very best condidtions. The best conditions aren't usually in play, however. While overhead has remained relatively steady, food costs have risen, while price points have dropped in order to remain competitive in a stagnate main street economy. Also note, that the 30% food costs requires virtually zero waste, as well as the ability to use economies of scale (which is not an option for non-chain pop and pops). The true profit margin is usually closer to 3-5%. Now you propose to ratchet up labor costs? Where does this money come from? Should the restaurant run at a loss?
Chef Jim Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 In the most well run restaurants, 30% of all revenue goes to food costs, 30% goes to overhead (rent, mortgage, electricity, insurance, licencing, gas, etc.), and 30% goes to labor costs. This leaves a scant 10% under the very best condidtions. The best conditions aren't usually in play, however. While overhead has remained relatively steady, food costs have risen, while price points have dropped in order to remain competitive in a stagnate main street economy. Also note, that the 30% food costs requires virtually zero waste, as well as the ability to use economies of scale (which is not an option for non-chain pop and pops). The true profit margin is usually closer to 3-5%. Now you propose to ratchet up labor costs? Where does this money come from? Should the restaurant run at a loss? I already brought this up to him and he ran away with his tail between his legs. If they go with a $15 federal minimum wage how are mom and pop's supposed to survive? There are two variables that are the easiest to manipulate. One is labor (to a point) and revenue (also to a point). But you will eventually get to a breaking point where you need to close shop.
DC Tom Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 I already brought this up to him and he ran away with his tail between his legs. If they go with a $15 federal minimum wage how are mom and pop's supposed to survive? There are two variables that are the easiest to manipulate. One is labor (to a point) and revenue (also to a point). But you will eventually get to a breaking point where you need to close shop. And don't forget downstream costs. That 30% of costs from food has its own labor costs, mostly minimum wage as well. Overhead, not as much, but there's probably still some (kickbacks to health inspectors probably increase ). So it's not like a 50% increase in labor costs becomes a 23-23-45% split in costs. It's still 30-30-30, with everything increasing in proportion. And where does that cost get borne? Want to answer that one, gatorman?
Gary M Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 If the MW goes up, won't all payroll taxes also increase? So the big winner in this entire discussion is the government. Even if most of these workers get their payroll taxes back in April, the fed gets a huge cash flow increase, plus additional taxes right off the backs of the small businesses.
Joe Miner Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 If the MW goes up, won't all payroll taxes also increase? So the big winner in this entire discussion is the government. Even if most of these workers get their payroll taxes back in April, the fed gets a huge cash flow increase, plus additional taxes right off the backs of the small businesses. Assuming employment doesn't also drop as a result of the increased cost to do business.
Chef Jim Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 If the MW goes up, won't all payroll taxes also increase? So the big winner in this entire discussion is the government. Even if most of these workers get their payroll taxes back in April, the fed gets a huge cash flow increase, plus additional taxes right off the backs of the small businesses. Which will also increase the business' payroll seeing their share of the SS tax is a percentage so that will go up. And no one has mentioned if a guy scrubbing pots has some overtime which happens all the time in restaurants due to the nature of the unreliable staff is now making $22.50 an hour for overtime. The problem with liberals is they jump right on something that sounds good without looking at the downsides.
Gary M Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 Assuming employment doesn't also drop as a result of the increased cost to do business. Like raising taxes on smokes?
Recommended Posts