YoloinOhio Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 http://mmqb.si.com/2014/12/03/quarterback-market-draft-2015/ The QB Market Crash RGIII has crashed, Newton is hurting and Kaepernick is struggling. With more questions than answers at the top of the upcoming draft class, will teams back off the big investments in young quarterbacks?
NoSaint Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 the qb market has certainly gotten strange the last few years. we have had talks quite a few times about that "second tier" of qbs, and it not really existing these days. Sure the brady/rogers/brees group is worth top tier money, but that second group needs some drop off in pay so that you can bridge the talent gap with dollars elsewhere.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 This is where all the talk shows and media hurts sports. QB is such a difficult position to master. Yet, the second a young guy struggles, people want to call him a bust or get rid of him. Newsflash, all Qbs are going to struggle. This knee jerk reaction to every game is silly. It's why I give EJ a much bigger leash than ORton. I have a 9 year history of watching Orton be average at best.
YoloinOhio Posted December 3, 2014 Author Posted December 3, 2014 Sounds like the 2015 draft is not good for QBs again. They include Cook, but I don't think he will declare.
Mr. WEO Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 This is where all the talk shows and media hurts sports. QB is such a difficult position to master. Yet, the second a young guy struggles, people want to call him a bust or get rid of him. Newsflash, all Qbs are going to struggle. This knee jerk reaction to every game is silly. It's why I give EJ a much bigger leash than ORton. I have a 9 year history of watching Orton be average at best. The rest of us have a history of watching JPL, Trent and EJ struggle to the point where we are still ithout a franchise QB. If all QB's are going to struggle, explain your knee jerk reaction to every Orton game.
NoSaint Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Sounds like the 2015 draft is not good for QBs again. They include Cook, but I don't think he will declare. there was a thought that nfl and college offenses were getting more similar the last few years - but it looks like that gap is widening back out with RG3, CK, Cam not being able to transition the spread with read option stuff into the NFL game. The development of traditional, pro style, nfl qbs at the college level is an interesting discussion.
YoloinOhio Posted December 3, 2014 Author Posted December 3, 2014 there was a thought that nfl and college offenses were getting more similar the last few years - but it looks like that gap is widening back out with RG3, CK, Cam not being able to transition the spread with read option stuff into the NFL game. The development of traditional, pro style, nfl qbs at the college level is an interesting discussion. this is why I love Connor cook. He is a pro style QB from the big 10 who has played in all kinds of weather and some very big games and against fast, complicated defenses. There are so many spread offenses now with the dual threat QBs but that didn't always translate to nfl success. Cook is tough. If the Bills take a QB I hope it's him. This year or next year, whenever he declares. Trade up if needed. He makes all the throws and trucks defenders.
NoSaint Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 The rest of us have a history of watching JPL, Trent and EJ struggle to the point where we are still ithout a franchise QB. If all QB's are going to struggle, explain your knee jerk reaction to every Orton game. he pretty clearly did explain it - his point was young qbs will, but hopefully less with time. with time KO, it hasnt gotten to be less.
FireChan Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 This is where all the talk shows and media hurts sports. QB is such a difficult position to master. Yet, the second a young guy struggles, people want to call him a bust or get rid of him. Newsflash, all Qbs are going to struggle. This knee jerk reaction to every game is silly. It's why I give EJ a much bigger leash than ORton. I have a 9 year history of watching Orton be average at best. Tell that to the WR's, they're the ones who got EJ demoted.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 The rest of us have a history of watching JPL, Trent and EJ struggle to the point where we are still ithout a franchise QB. If all QB's are going to struggle, explain your knee jerk reaction to every Orton game. I said he has a 9 year track record of struggling. Scoring one td a game is why he can't consistently start and teams are looking for an upgrade over him. IF this was EJ's 9th year, I won't defend him either. You realize that Orton's current QBR is only a point than EJ's rookie year QBR? He's in his 9th year. I'd rather go through the ups and downs with a young (talented) QB than with a 9th year guy. It's how they become better. this is why I love Connor cook. He is a pro style QB from the big 10 who has played in all kinds of weather and some very big games and against fast, complicated defenses. There are so many spread offenses now with the dual threat QBs but that didn't always translate to nfl success. Cook is tough. If the Bills take a QB I hope it's him. This year or next year, whenever he declares. Trade up if needed. He makes all the throws and trucks defenders. I know you're a Big Ten guy, but when was the last good Big Ten NFL QB? I know every guy is different but there isn't a ton of elite talent in the conference so I don't think Cook is getting the same tests as someone in the SEC. Besides if he struggles, we're going to want him benched for a journeyman anyways.
YoloinOhio Posted December 3, 2014 Author Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) I said he has a 9 year track record of struggling. Scoring one td a game is why he can't consistently start and teams are looking for an upgrade over him. IF this was EJ's 9th year, I won't defend him either. You realize that Orton's current QBR is only a point than EJ's rookie year QBR? He's in his 9th year. I'd rather go through the ups and downs with a young (talented) QB than with a 9th year guy. It's how they become better. I know you're a Big Ten guy, but when was the last good Big Ten NFL QB? I know every guy is different but there isn't a ton of elite talent in the conference so I don't think Cook is getting the same tests as someone in the SEC. Besides if he struggles, we're going to want him benched for a journeyman anyways. what do you mean there isn't a ton of elite talent in the conference? The "tests" the SEC QBs are getting sure isn't helping them in the nfl. What was the last good QB out of the SEC? Newton? 4 yrs ago and debateable at this point. There are 5 big 10 QBs starting in the nfl right now, including the one who just won the SB. Edited December 3, 2014 by YoloinOhio
CountDorkula Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Tell that to the WR's, they're the ones who got EJ demoted. This is not a Orton EJ debate But Sammy is getting frustrated, you could tell when he slammed the ball after a missed throw last game. Orton is missing as many throws as EJ was. The only difference is the WR's are making great catches. Neither QB is good enough at the moment.
YoloinOhio Posted December 3, 2014 Author Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) This is not a Orton EJ debate But Sammy is getting frustrated, you could tell when he slammed the ball after a missed throw last game. Orton is missing as many throws as EJ was. The only difference is the WR's are making great catches. Neither QB is good enough at the moment. I thought he slammed the ball because he was mad he didn't catch it. Edited December 3, 2014 by YoloinOhio
FireChan Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) This is not a Orton EJ debate But Sammy is getting frustrated, you could tell when he slammed the ball after a missed throw last game. Orton is missing as many throws as EJ was. The only difference is the WR's are making great catches. Neither QB is good enough at the moment. That's okay. Biscuit just thinks the fan base clamored and begged for EJ to be benched and that's why we switched. That's not the case. It was the players. Edited December 3, 2014 by FireChan
It's in My Blood Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Look at the top 3 teams in the league over a 10 year span. Their Qbs have been the traditional pocket passers. The game will always have fads and new gimmicks, but it will always revert to Super Bowl teams having that pure, accurate, pocket passer. NFL defenses just evolve to quickly to allow anything different. Top ten QBs over the last 10 years (not in any particular order) : Brady Manning Rodgers Eli Big Ben Brees Rivers Favre Palmer Warner
CountDorkula Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 I thought he slammed the ball because he was mad he didn't catch it. It may have been but when I re-watched it, Sammy had not shot at that as the ball hit the ground before it got to him.
yungmack Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 I know you're a Big Ten guy, but when was the last good Big Ten NFL QB? I know every guy is different but there isn't a ton of elite talent in the conference so I don't think Cook is getting the same tests as someone in the SEC. Off the top of my head: Tom Brady, Drew Brees & Russell Wilson.
YoloinOhio Posted December 3, 2014 Author Posted December 3, 2014 It may have been but when I re-watched it, Sammy had not shot at that as the ball hit the ground before it got to him. OK - that's the one. Didn't see it hit the ground.
Jauronimo Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 This is where all the talk shows and media hurts sports. QB is such a difficult position to master. Yet, the second a young guy struggles, people want to call him a bust or get rid of him. Newsflash, all Qbs are going to struggle. This knee jerk reaction to every game is silly. It's why I give EJ a much bigger leash than ORton. I have a 9 year history of watching Orton be average at best. Does this post really belong in every thread?
BillsVet Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 I remember going to the home game vs. GB in 2006. The Packers were the league's worst against the pass and JPL managed to throw for only 102 yards that day. Now, I know Jauron and Fairchild weren't offensive masterminds, but a QB who can't do better than that probably isn't going to succeed in the NFL. QB's take time to develop, but watching EJ play he's not even remotely close to being able to adapt on-field. He came from a system (like most college QB's do) which didn't require much more than reading half the field and making a throw to his primary receiver. Now that he's moved on to the NFL that's not going to work and I've seen nothing from year 1 to year 2 in improvement. If there's little to no gain in that time frame, the chance a QB will become successful is minimal IMO.
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