Nanker Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 If the Kelly era Bills had this D, we'd have two or three Lombardis in the trophy case at OBD.
John from Riverside Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 To the people who are saying they are not the best in bills history...... Do you realize just how woefully bad this offense is at times? Because it does play into it
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 Why shouldn't they? If they're really the best, they should play and beat the best. Isn't that how it works? Because that's not how you compare things to determine which one is the best out of a group.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 Party like it's 1999. That defense was boss mode.
billsfan1959 Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) This defense, with this coordinator and this personnel, may be the best the Bills have ever had, maybe one of the best the NFL has seen in recent years. This view might be a consensus if they didn't have one of the worst offenses the Bills have ever fielded. With a competent offense (and coordinator) doing its part--making third downs, scoring in the red zone, giving the defense a rest and a lead so they could really be aggressive--these Bills would be ranked with the '85 Bears. The line, the linebackers, the safeties are all excellent, and the corners are above average. Am I wrong? It is almost impossible to compare defenses from different points in history. With that said, I believe it is at least in the conversation of best defenses in Bills' history; however, IMHO, not even close to the Bears' '85 defense. I have been watching the NFL since 1968 and, again, IMHO, I have never seen a defense as completely dominating (and consistently so) as the '85 Bears. Edited December 2, 2014 by billsfan1959
Bills Fan since '64 Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 The Bruce Smith/Cornelius Bennett/Darryl Talley defenses were spectacular, particularly in 1988.
Buftex Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 If the Kelly era Bills had this D, we'd have two or three Lombardis in the trophy case at OBD. Gosh...if the Kelly Super Bowl teams just had the defense that they had in 1988, they would have won or ring or two. Unfortunately, the offense wasn't up to their speed...then, once the offense was top notch, the defense took a little step back...perhaps it was the "no-huddle" that hurt them. Also, lets not forget the 1979-81 defense. 1980 in particular...they were pretty bad-ass.
Gugny Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 Rule changes, in my opinion, have forced discussions like this to be broken down by era. Much like baseball stats/records discussions have become.
Buftex Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) To the people who are saying they are not the best in bills history...... Do you realize just how woefully bad this offense is at times? Because it does play into it True...but you have been around. Do you really think this is the best defense the team has ever had? Or just the best they had in about 15 years? They have been very dominant at times, but then (say like the first half of this past Sunday's game) they look pretty pedestrian, against a pretty mediocre-bad offense. Nothing wrong with that, most teams have their ups and downs, but to say they are the "best ever" in team history(as the op is saying), or one of the very elite in league history seems to be over-stating things a little. They have been mostly great... Rule changes, in my opinion, have forced discussions like this to be broken down by era. Much like baseball stats/records discussions have become. True. Sometimes I watch a game nowadays, and I hear about how dominant a secondary is, and I see them getting torched every few plays...it is truly a quarterbacks' game now, like never before. Edited December 2, 2014 by Buftex
26CornerBlitz Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 True...but you have been around. Do you really think this is the best defense the team has ever had? Or just the best they had in about 15 years? They have been very dominant at times, but then (say like the first half of this past Sunday's game) they look pretty pedestrian, against a pretty mediocre-bad offense. Nothing wrong with that, most teams have their ups and downs, but to say they are the "best ever" in team history(as the op is saying), or one of the very elite in league history seems to be over-stating things a little. They have been mostly great... True. Sometimes I watch a game nowadays, and I hear about how dominant a secondary is, and I see them getting torched every few plays...it is truly a quarterbacks' game now, like never before. One thing that can't be ignored is the way the rules are set up in today's NFL against aggressive defensive back play with receivers being able to run free and having almost no fear of going across the middle because they know defenders cannot punish them.
billsfan1959 Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 Gosh...if the Kelly Super Bowl teams just had the defense that they had in 1988, they would have won or ring or two. Unfortunately, the offense wasn't up to their speed...then, once the offense was top notch, the defense took a little step back...perhaps it was the "no-huddle" that hurt them. Also, lets not forget the 1979-81 defense. 1980 in particular...they were pretty bad-ass. Yeah, the 79-81 defense was pretty solid. It went into San Diego in the playoffs and almost shut down Dan Fouts and his high octane offense...almost :-(. As for the Super Bowl years, I honestly think the issue was Walt Corey, rather than the talent...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 If the Kelly era Bills had this D, we'd have two or three Lombardis in the trophy case at OBD. Never mind the players, if that defense had Pettine or Schwartz we may have won three.
BearNorth Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 64 & 65 Dline had Sestak [would have been HOF if he had played longer], Ron McDole [240 games played], Tom Day, and Jim Dunaway, all AFL all-stars. They allowed zero rushing touchdowns in 17 straight games, a record that still stands today. The 1964 Bills' defense set an AFL record by giving up the fewest rushing yards in league history, with only 918, or 65.5 yards per game.[1] They also led the league in points allowed (242), total yards allowed (3,878), first downs surrendered (206), and rushing touchdowns allowed (four).[2] They had Mike Stratton [The Keith Lincoln tackle], Butch Byrd, and George Saimes, a Kicker named Gogolak and a punter named Maguire [yep that guy]. They went 12-2 with a QB [Kemp] who threw twice as many INT's [26] as TD's. [13]. Arguably the best defensive player on the team might have been the starting fullback AKA Cookie, truly a man amongst boys.
Mr. WEO Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 I'm with those that say you have to beat the best. There has been but one signficant challenge to this D this season and they didn't look good. If they look good against the these last 3 (of 4) teams, then maybe the best in franchise history. As for in NFL history? No way! First: they aren't even the best in the NFL this year. Second: '85 Bears, '00 Ravens, '13 Seahawks...
GunnerBill Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Yes, I think you're wrong. They've only gone up against two really good QBs and they didn't look good either time. Both at home. Having said that, three of their next four are against elite QBs. We'll see how they do. They got very little help from the offense in either game and actually go back and watch San Diego again. The D played pretty well. As they did in the first half vs New England. 2nd half vs New England I will grant you they had a bad afternoon. Not saying they are the best in history mind you. My Bills history goes back about 12 years. They are the best in that period. Edited December 2, 2014 by GunnerBill
dave mcbride Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) This defense, with this coordinator and this personnel, may be the best the Bills have ever had, maybe one of the best the NFL has seen in recent years. This view might be a consensus if they didn't have one of the worst offenses the Bills have ever fielded. With a competent offense (and coordinator) doing its part--making third downs, scoring in the red zone, giving the defense a rest and a lead so they could really be aggressive--these Bills would be ranked with the '85 Bears. The line, the linebackers, the safeties are all excellent, and the corners are above average. Am I wrong? Too soon to tell. The real challenges are coming up. And they were shredded by Brady earlier in the season at home. Edited December 2, 2014 by dave mcbride
vorpma Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 The Bills '99 D was pretty nasty! The 64-65 AFL Championship defensive teams were lights out. 1980 defense pretty good too, 64 definitely the best.
finn Posted December 2, 2014 Author Posted December 2, 2014 Give me a call on the 2014 D as the best in franchise history when they shut down an offense led by Rodgers, Manning, or Brady. Until then, the answer is NO for me. I had the same thought, but consider that they really did play well against Brady this year, only Schwartz inexplicably rushed three lineman and had Duke Williams cover Gronkowski, which borders on criminal negligence on his part. If they pressured girly Brady like they have Vick and others, they would have shut him down, or so I thought. The other thing is, they did play him well otherwise, but once again the Bills offense was lame as could be. Consider this defense with the Bears '85 or Ravens 2012 offense and you'll see my point. They would be number one in every category.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 The 76 Steelers had the best defense I've ever seen. Talentwise they were just loaded with HOFs and All Pros. Statswise they couldn't be scored on. The Bills best D was probably the 64-65 team,never saw them, but my Dad did and he has a great eye. The stats bear it out as well.
thewildrabbit Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 Lets rehash this conversation after the Denver-Green Bay- New England games. As good as this years defense is, it would be even better with a solid ground game to help keep the defense off the field, and on the bench more to keep them fresh. The offense is not helping this years team at all. Then even better with Kiko, and Leo.
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