Film Review - Week 13 - Orton Unforced Errors/ O Line Play

[thebandit27]

Isn't amazing how most of the fan base and the coaching staff have totally changed in that regard and now suddenly expect us in a matter of weeks to develop a top ten passing attack . We have gone from the #2 rushing attack to the #24 and are now expecting Orton to win every game with his arm not some of the games but every single game and we are upset at Orton for not being able to do it when we know he is not a elite QB.

 

Why do you keep insisting that folks are saying this? I haven't seen it once.

[Bocephuz]

Good stuff

 

Alas, (for me) the wrong guy / player's under the microscope IMO. I look back at that game and have to think typical Bills this year. We KNOW Kyle Orton isn't an elite QB, and he never was or will be. What he is is an experienced veteran QB who can read the defensive alignment, adjust the protections, and change the play if needed. Orton has a decent arm, and if given proper time in the pocket he usually does a good job.

 

Now, that said lets look at what he was facing this week in the Cleveland secondary. CB Joe Haden who will take away the #1 WR by himself, and even Buster Skrine is a decent CB. Then Cleveland is a middle of the pack defense overall, #18 total, #8 pass defense, #29th in rush defense.

 

So any knowledgeable person would surmise that the best way to beat the Browns would be with a stout run game, and keep the passing to a minimum. Low, and behold the Bills come out throwing just like they have since the Chargers game.

 

1st series, 4 plays, 17 yards pass, run, pass, pass, Punt--three passes, one run

2nd series, 4 plays, 9 yards run, pass, pass, pass, Punt --three passes, one run

3rd series, 7 plays, 55 yards pass, pass, run, pass, run, pass, pass, INT--five passes, two runs

4th series, 3 plays, 4 yards run, pass, run, Punt--one pass, two runs * This series after gaining 9 yards on the first two plays the last run was up the middle (FJ) on third down for no gain. Penalty delay of game on punter -5.

5th series, 3 plays, 6 yards pass,(penalty - pass interference) run, pass, time out- drop back Sacked -9 yards, Punt- three passes, one run

6th series, 6 plays, 11 yards pass, pass, pass, spike ball, missed FG

 

Then during the 3rd quarter with a lead the Bills start running the ball more often with some success, and just like magic Kyle Orton starts to play a whole bunch better when he isn't forced to shoulder the entire offense on his own. In one series in the 3rd the Bills actually went run, run, run, pass.

 

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT 12:27 1 01:33 BUF 29 4 17 Punt 04:51 1 01:35 BUF 20 4 9 Punt 01:44 1 03:45 BUF 38 7 55 Interception 07:24 2 02:11 BUF 27 3 4 Punt 03:34 2 01:48 BUF 25 3 6 Punt 01:02 2 01:02 CLE 46 6 11 Missed FG 15:00 3 00:41 BUF 20 3 5 Interception 12:13 3 04:09 BUF 16 8 84 Touchdown 06:18 3 02:41 BUF 38 5 20 Punt 01:42 3 03:01 CLE 48 6 17 Field Goal 12:59 4 00:58 CLE 21 4 5 Field Goal 08:47 4 05:15 BUF 20 10 64 Field Goal 02:43 4 02:16 CLE 23 4 6 Field Goal

 

http://espn.go.com/n...ameId=400554321

 

I think we get the point here that the Bills didn't even really attempt to run the ball more often until they had an established lead. Then they found out they could run the ball, and did pretty well against that 29th ranked run defense. 30 rushes for 106 yards, a 3.5 YPC average.

 

A defensive score also helped the team get over 20 points against a team with a winning record.

 

I think we can all agree that there is a large enough sample size on Orton to conclude that throwing the ball 40 times/game and relying on his arm to win games is not a good formula. Definitely need to improve/ focus on the run game more. That being said... we could do much worse than Orton if we are in a situation where we are behind late and need a game winning drive.

[Coach Tuesday]

or maybe hes gotten gun shy because everyone cries over turnovers and going into the bye week people said simply dont turn it over and we will win more games .

 

We have no run game and people want to pass for tds but dont want turnovers or sacks even with the knowledge that the Online is not that great

 

This^^ Our offensive philosophy is "hide under the covers."

[thebandit27]

This^^ Our offensive philosophy is "hide under the covers."

 

I really don't think it's too much to ask that Orton hit an open WR and look off a safety instead of throwing an INT in the end zone. Nobody is asking him to be a top 10 QB; his performance over the last 4 games (92/150 for 872 yds, 61.8% completions, 5.81 YPA, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, avg QBR of 42.68, avg QB rating of 81) has been troubling to say the least.

[26CornerBlitz]

I really don't think it's too much to ask that Orton hit an open WR and look off a safety instead of throwing an INT in the end zone. Nobody is asking him to be a top 10 QB; his performance over the last 4 games (92/150 for 872 yds, 61.8% completions, 5.81 YPA, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, avg QBR of 42.68, avg QB rating of 81) has been troubling to say the least.

 

I don't see Orton manipulating coverage in this manner. His deal is the pump fake or the cold stare down that draws coverage to his intended target.

[thewildrabbit]

Isn't amazing how most of the fan base and the coaching staff have totally changed in that regard and now suddenly expect us in a matter of weeks to develop a top ten passing attack . We have gone from the #2 rushing attack to the #24 and are now expecting Orton to win every game with his arm not some of the games but every single game and we are upset at Orton for not being able to do it when we know he is not a elite QB.

Yep, I agree, and at least that #2 rushing attack helped out the QB's quite a bit. What a lot don't get that even when the run game isn't working that well, that when they keep pounding the rock it keeps the defense honest to respect the run, which also helps the QB. It also helps running from a play action formation, and thus the defense isn't always certain its a pass play. The Bills have done mostly shotgun formations game after game after game.

 

Its kinda sad to watch the Bills try a draw play to a RB up the middle with the bunched sets / closed formations. All the RB manages to do is mostly run right into the backs of his blockers. Then it gets funny when Boobie does his Spiller impression and tries to bounce it to the outside.

 

Its almost like Hackett / Marrone morphed into Chan Gailey with all the passing this year, only without the ability to get his players in space, and lacking the imagination / ingenuity we saw at times from Gailey. That 14th ranked offense from 2011, or even the 19th ranked offense in 2012. is a far cry from this years offense. The Bills were at 28th in offense before the Jets 2x, and are now 24th after Cleveland. Believe it or not the Bills offense was better last year with the three rookie QB's, and all that running.

 

I think we can all agree that there is a large enough sample size on Orton to conclude that throwing the ball 40 times/game and relying on his arm to win games is not a good formula. Definitely need to improve/ focus on the run game more. That being said... we could do much worse than Orton if we are in a situation where we are behind late and need a game winning drive.

I agree, no question.

 

I'll say it again. The Bills offense was better last year with three rookie QB's, and all that running. I can only think that pounding the rock 30+ times a game and now with Orton back there it would be easier to win more games.

[Billsfan1972]

The passes to Watkins were horrible. Both Ints were lousy reads and passes. Don't blame Watkins for Orton's errors.

 

Also the Bills ran it plenty and seldom well. People excited by running it into the line for 4 yards are stuck in the 70's. Been a long time since I actually saw a hole created by the O-line (and much of the blame is the formations where the line looks crowded/stacked.

[JC2002]

Why do you keep insisting that folks are saying this? I haven't seen it once.

 

because thats where the perfection people are asking for out of a passing offense 9 games old takes it.

 

People are demanding a top ten passing offense without any rational reasoning for it .

 

We are 16th in points now (22nd) last year and I still believe we should be scoring more than we have been when we get into the redzone .However I find it crazy to put it all on something 9 weeks old when the fact is we had the #2 rushing attack last year and its now 24th. That plays a huge part in the passing game especially for team that is trying to ESTABLISH a passing attack which is what we are trying to do despite the ones who believe we should be elite based on well.....nothing .

[thebandit27]

because thats where the perfection people are asking for out of a passing offense 9 games old takes it.

 

People are demanding a top ten passing offense without any rational reasoning for it .

 

We are 16th in points now (22nd) last year and I still believe we should be scoring more than we have been when we get into the redzone .However I find it crazy to put it all on something 9 weeks old when the fact is we had the #2 rushing attack last year and its now 24th. That plays a huge part in the passing game especially for team that is trying to ESTABLISH a passing attack which is what we are trying to do despite the ones who believe we should be elite based on well.....nothing .

 

You're reasoning is fine; it's the straw man of folks asking for a "top ten passing attack" with which I take issue. Do you really think that scoring more than 1 TD per game is asking for a top ten passing attack? No, no it isn't. If you can show me 1 poster that's asked for anything remotely close to a top 10 passing offense, I'll be happy to apologize and acquiesce.

[bananathumb]

Watkins is beyond criticism at OBD. Why I don't know.

[JC2002]

You're reasoning is fine; it's the straw man of folks asking for a "top ten passing attack" with which I take issue. Do you really think that scoring more than 1 TD per game is asking for a top ten passing attack? No, no it isn't. If you can show me 1 poster that's asked for anything remotely close to a top 10 passing offense, I'll be happy to apologize and acquiesce.

 

We are 16th in scoring this year one more td per game puts us squarely in the top ten in scoring . That little uptick that you think is nothing moves us up dramatically and why do you think that with running game, line issues ,and our 9 week old passing attack that its that easy ? Miami is 10th in scoring but does anyone think Miami has a super dynamic offense ? No but they run the ball and keep things balanced we have no balance and every team ahead of is further along in there passing games . The true elite passing attacks are 3-4+ years in making now why would expect that out of our passing attack now ?

 

We are exactly 37 points behind 10th place Miami in scoring and the argument seems to be that Orton and his arm, should make up all the differences instead of of the top 5 rushing attack that has disappeared.

 

 

We all want to see improvement in the scoring but without some type of balance its going to be extremely difficult

[thebandit27]

We are 16th in scoring this year one more td per game puts us squarely in the top ten in scoring . That little uptick that you think is nothing moves us up dramatically and why do you think that with running game, line issues ,and our 9 week old passing attack that its that easy ? Miami is 10th in scoring but does anyone think Miami has a super dynamic offense ? No but they run the ball and keep things balanced we have no balance and every team ahead of is further along in there passing games . The true elite passing attacks are 3-4+ years in making now why would expect that out of our passing attack now ?

 

We are exactly 37 points behind 10th place Miami in scoring and the argument seems to be that Orton and his arm, should make up all the differences instead of of the top 5 rushing attack that has disappeared.

 

 

We all want to see improvement in the scoring but without some type of balance its going to be extremely difficult

 

The Bills are 16th in scoring because they hung a combined 81 points on the Jets. That's 30% of their total scoring output in 16.7% of their schedule. A wild aberration.

 

Also, you keep talking about folks wanting a top ten passing attack, but just now, you've shifted the focus to total scoring. As I've said, this team needs to score more than 1 offensive TD per game if they want to win down the stretch. In 3 of the last 4 games, they've failed to do so. Asking for more than 1 TD is not asking for a top ten passing attack. That's what I'm saying.

 

Yes, balance will help; so will effectively executing. There have been many times that plays were there to be made, but the execution failed.

[The Big Cat]

The Bills are 16th in scoring because they hung a combined 81 points on the Jets. That's 30% of their total scoring output in 16.7% of their schedule. A wild aberration.

 

Also, you keep talking about folks wanting a top ten passing attack, but just now, you've shifted the focus to total scoring. As I've said, this team needs to score more than 1 offensive TD per game if they want to win down the stretch. In 3 of the last 4 games, they've failed to do so. Asking for more than 1 TD is not asking for a top ten passing attack. That's what I'm saying.

 

Yes, balance will help; so will effectively executing. There have been many times that plays were there to be made, but the execution failed.

 

Horse ****.

 

Atlanta (12): scored 92 of their 291 in two games.

 

We play the games on our schedule, just like the 31 other teams in the league.

[thebandit27]

 

 

Horse ****.

 

Atlanta (12): scored 92 of their 291 in two games.

 

We play the games on our schedule, just like the 31 other teams in the league.

 

Of course we do.

 

My point is that scoring a combined 81 points against a horrible team doesn't make up for NOT scoring against the not horrible ones.

 

Points scored outside of those 2 games are 23, 29, 10, 17, 17, 22, 17, 13, 9, and 26. Five games with 1 or fewer offensive TDs...that's terrible.

[JC2002]

The Bills are 16th in scoring because they hung a combined 81 points on the Jets. That's 30% of their total scoring output in 16.7% of their schedule. A wild aberration.

 

Also, you keep talking about folks wanting a top ten passing attack, but just now, you've shifted the focus to total scoring. As I've said, this team needs to score more than 1 offensive TD per game if they want to win down the stretch. In 3 of the last 4 games, they've failed to do so. Asking for more than 1 TD is not asking for a top ten passing attack. That's what I'm saying.

 

Yes, balance will help; so will effectively executing. There have been many times that plays were there to be made, but the execution failed.

 

unless you are going to go through every team and say well they only scored because .... than that type of reasoning just doesn't fly when you try and apply it to just ONE team .

 

I did not shift focus just illustrating where your ONE more td per game puts us and wondering why you feel its not too much to ask when putting our entire situation in context ?

 

We averaged 1.9 offensive tds per game last year and we average 1.9 again this year so far . The difference is that last year the running game carried the load and this year its the passing game carrying the load so Im simply stating that an uproar in this thread every week is a bit overdone simply because the running game has been mia .I just don't get where the expectation that we should be passing for 2-3 tds per game comes when the entire attack is one big work in progress.

 

Until the rushing attack gets fixed to complaint that the offense is not scoring enough and needs to score is expectation of a top ten offense because thats what it would it be if it did . We have played 12 games and 8 of the 12 have come against teams who defenses have ranked in the top 15 in ppg .

[thebandit27]

unless you are going to go through every team and say well they only scored because .... than that type of reasoning just doesn't fly when you try and apply it to just ONE team .

 

Of course it applies. As I said to El Gato Largo above:

 

My point is that scoring a combined 81 points against a horrible team doesn't make up for NOT scoring against the not horrible ones.

 

Points scored outside of those 2 games are 23, 29, 10, 17, 17, 22, 17, 13, 9, and 26. Five games with 1 or fewer offensive TDs...that's terrible.

 

I did not shift focus just illustrating where your ONE more td per game puts us and wondering why you feel its not too much to ask when putting our entire situation in context ?

 

Ok...at least now I understand your point and why we're at odds on this subject, so thanks for taking the time to clarify.

 

The issue here is that you're assuming that I mean scoring one more TD per game on top of the current scoring pace. I'm speaking more to putting the ball in the end zone instead of settling for FGs. It's the difference between losing to Houston, KC, and Miami and winning those games. Would those additional 4 points put Buffalo in the top 10 scoring (not passing) offenses? Yes. Does sticking the ball in the end zone once more per game instead of kicking a FG mean developing a top 10 passing attack? No. It means not overthrowing Scott Chandler and Chris Hogan in the end zone against KC. It means not missing Sammy Watkins wide open at the goal line against Miami in week 2, or again on a deep route in the Thursday night game against Miami. Hitting on those missed opportunities doesn't jump Buffalo from the 21st passing offense into the top 10...it does, however, make the difference in at least 2 losses this year.

 

I've conversed enough with you to know that you're a good poster that understands this stuff--do you now see the point I'm making?

 

We averaged 1.9 offensive tds per game last year and we average 1.9 again this year so far . The difference is that last year the running game carried the load and this year its the passing game carrying the load so Im simply stating that an uproar in this thread every week is a bit overdone simply because the running game has been mia .I just don't get where the expectation that we should be passing for 2-3 tds per game comes when the entire attack is one big work in progress.

 

Evan last year, Buffalo was a run for quantity team, not so much a run for quality team. They had a YPC last year that was almost identical to teams like Seattle and SF, and was middle-of-the-pack in terms of ranking (14th). The biggest difference I've noted in the run game this year is the lack of attempts per game by comparison. Last year, Buffalo ran the ball 34.1 times per game, which ranked 1st in the NFL. This year, it's only 25.6 times per game, which ranks 22nd. The extra carries were indicative of what appeared to be the entire plan for Buffalo's run game: pound your opponent all game long with your extremely large-bodied OL (the Bills have the 2nd biggest OL in the NFL by weight), and soon enough, you'll break some big gains with Spiller/Jackson. It worked well earlier in the year (see Chicago and Miami games, in which they had 33 carries each and busted some very big runs), but they got away from it. I have to wonder, now that the OL seems to have settled in a bit, if they'd see more success getting back to that formula.

 

Either way, I don't think performance is the reason that the run game isn't supporting the offense as it did last year--it's been lack of opportunities by comparison. Some of that is the loss of Spiller, who was responsible for many of the big plays hit against worn-down defenses (2nd in the NFL in rushes of over 20 yards in each of the last 2 seasons)...that's no reason to quit the philosophy altogether.

 

Until the rushing attack gets fixed to complaint that the offense is not scoring enough and needs to score is expectation of a top ten offense because thats what it would it be if it did . We have played 12 games and 8 of the 12 have come against teams who defenses have ranked in the top 15 in ppg .

 

As I said, score 1 more TD in the red zone than they've been scoring, and it makes a huge difference. It doesn't take a quantum leap in performance to do so; just hitting on a few (badly) missed opportunities.