Has Marrone "evolved" with regard to 4th down?

[plenzmd1]

Marrone is cautious by nature with regard to taking risks on fourth down. If he has a defense that has suffocated the opposition then the risk of not making a first down on a fourth down try is potentially less damaging. That's simply my point.

 

and it is one i hear quite often, and i know i am slow, but i cant for the life of me wrap my heard around it. Now, it most likely comes from my bias of beinga strong advocate of going for it on 4th more then most.

 

I think i can make the argument for going for it on 4th if I have a strong or weak defense, or a strong or weak offense, or any combination of the 4 LOL.

 

Next week for instance, i dont care what our D is doing, we need to possess the ball and score touchdowns, and yes there will be some 4th down situations in there. I am going to be fine with giving up 3 to get a chance to extend a drive and get 7...and if they fail on 4th so be it.

 

I am convinced that it is the right way to beat a powerful offensive team such as the Broncos in their stadium

Edited December 2, 2014 by plenzmd1

[JohnC]

and it is one i hear quite often, and i know i am slow, but i cant for the life of me wrap my heard around it. Now, it most likely comes from my bias of beinga strong advocate of going for it on 4th more then most.

 

I think i can make the argument for going for it on 4th if I have a strong or weak defense, or a strong or weak offense, or any combination of the 4 LOL.

 

Next week for instance, i dont care what our D is doing, we need to possess the ball and score touchdowns, and yes there will be some 4th down situations in there. I am going to be fine with giving up 3 to get a chance to extend a drive and get 7...and if they fail on 4th so be it.

 

I am convinced that it is the right way to beat a powerful offensive team such as the Broncos in their stadium

 

It's an issue of mindset. While you focus on the opportunity for the success of the fourth down attempt Marrone is more inclined to focus on the risk that the play won't work. There is no doubt that the situation is factored in when making the decision go for it or not. But with Marrone his disposition becomes part of the calculation in his decision-making.. His comfort level in taking risks is more limited than for most other coaches. .

Edited December 2, 2014 by JohnC

[GaryPinC]

With our offense and defense, I don't think being conservative on fourth down is the wrong way to go, in general.

 

I disagree. Marrone needs to challenge our offense at certain points in the game to dig deep and make a play to keep a drive alive. At certain points of the game, our offense needs to stomp on the throats of the opposition to break their will, momentum and take control of the game. Field goals and trying to pin them deep doesn't cut it long term.

 

How can you task your offense to come up with a string of positive plays/drives when we are losing late in a critical game if you don't have the confidence to take chances when we're winning and a touchdown will break the opposition? It shows the utmost confidence in your players and they will relish the opportunity.

 

Do it intelligently, do it to challenge your offense to improve themselves, and do it to instill an attitude and confidence. Plus, we have the defense to cover it if they can't get it done on occasion. Kudos to Aaron Williams for being willing to discuss it publicly recently. I know it goes against the team and handling it in the locker room but Marrone needs to change and I would rather not have another coach fired to start the cycle over again.

[FireChan]

 

 

I disagree. Marrone needs to challenge our offense at certain points in the game to dig deep and make a play to keep a drive alive. At certain points of the game, our offense needs to stomp on the throats of the opposition to break their will, momentum and take control of the game. Field goals and trying to pin them deep doesn't cut it long term.

 

How can you task your offense to come up with a string of positive plays/drives when we are losing late in a critical game if you don't have the confidence to take chances when we're winning and a touchdown will break the opposition? It shows the utmost confidence in your players and they will relish the opportunity.

 

Do it intelligently, do it to challenge your offense to improve themselves, and do it to instill an attitude and confidence. Plus, we have the defense to cover it if they can't get it done on occasion. Kudos to Aaron Williams for being willing to discuss it publicly recently. I know it goes against the team and handling it in the locker room but Marrone needs to change and I would rather not have another coach fired to start the cycle over again.

 

I meant in general, like not when we're down late in the game. That's an easy decision, and you should go for it. I just mean, 1st quarter, 4th and 3 on the 50, we should probably punt.

[34-78-83]

I don't think so at all. He's conservative on the issue. But the one Sunday was a no brainer, and he would have done the same thing earlier in the year. He's not against going for it, he's just a conservative coach. They had already decided before the game that if they got right to that part of the field they were going for it. I would imagine every coach in the league would go for it in that specific situation at that specific spot at home on a windy day with our defense playing the way it was. It was at the 37 yard line. To me, that call was absolutely zero indication whatsoever that Marrone has changed his attitude toward 4th down.

 

THIS ^^^^

 

All I will add (not saying this is your opinion KTG) is that the lack of going for it earlier in certain games was not the "no brainer" that fans and football math guys believe it to be. There are 2 to 3 obvious variables we all can look at in these situations, and there are always a number of other variables that we don't know about or think about (injuries, no push at guard, etc. etc.)

[GaryPinC]

I meant in general, like not when we're down late in the game. That's an easy decision, and you should go for it. I just mean, 1st quarter, 4th and 3 on the 50, we should probably punt.

 

I hear you. It's easy to talk in generalities because generally you'll always be right but that doesn't speak to the mentality behind the decision making which is my point. Also, it's not an easy decision for Marrone when we're down late in the game as evidenced by the 4th quarter of the Miami game. Miami was moving the ball decently most of the game against our defense and IMO with 9+ minutes left we needed to take a chance on that 4th down he decided to punt away. Wrong message to send your team, Doug.

 

As far as a 1st quarter 4th and 3 from the 50, let's say we started with it on the 2 and have overcome multiple penalties, including multiple holding calls to move the ball out to our 43. It's the first signs of life our offense has shown and every play we're getting 4+ yards a play but penalties are killing us and we're already losing to Denver 10-0. Let's say after a 1st and 10 from the 43 we had more penalties that moved us back to a second and 25 but we ended up fourth and 3 from the 50.

 

As the head coach, Denver has already beaten your defense twice and we're trying to sort that out, but right now you are moving the ball well and you know their defense will make adjustments after they get off the field. You're playing Payton Manning. No question old Marrone punts in that situation but your offense is finding a rhythm and chomping at the bit. I would like to see a new Marrone go for it in that situation.

[Kelly the Dog]

Inside opponents territory is what hangs people here up I think. But it shouldn't. Each yard inside the 50 changes your perspective about going for it on fourth. Going for it 4th and 2 from the 47 is a completely different decision than going for it on 4th and 2 from the 42. It's not, as some seem to believe, "going for it on 4th down in the opponents territory."