Just for clarification, Hackett still calls plays

[John from Riverside]

I just feel like this team is immensely talented.....even on the offensive side of the ball

 

They should be better then this offensively

[Formerly Allan in MD]

I completely and emphatically agree with everything you've observed, as well.

 

The one thing holding this team back is the offense, that much is clear. And, yes, we can stand to improve the QB, TE, and Guard positons. But, the offense as a whole is underperforming based on the overall talent and resouces that have been put into it. IMO, largely because of situational playcalling and the overall design and "adaptability" of our offense. The coaches are responsible for those aspects of the game, not the players.

 

Let me be clear, I like many of the things Marrone has done and am by no means saying he should be fired. However, the offensive disfunction is squarely on the shoulders of the Offensive Coordinator who has had 2 years to figure it out. How many more years do you allow him to figure out how to do his job? I think Marrone has the toughest decision of his tenure upcoming, and it likely will seal his fate and ours for the next several years.

You don't have offensive dysfunction if you have a really solid quarterback and offensive line. The offensive coordinator, whether you like him or not, does not have a magic wand.

[3rdand12]

I'm ok w/ keeping Marrone as long as Hackett is gone. If Marrone wants Nate back, bye, bye boys.

 

I don't see the new owner being insistent on keeping coaching costs under some imaginary Mendoza line, so there is no reason to stick w/ Nate IMHO. Let Marrone have input, just don't waste this D w/ this horrible offensive playcalling.

I do agree. The financial commitment might be bolstered with T Pegula at the helm. J. Littman is gone and a new program is in place i would hope by now.

There is a cap on players but i dont think there is a cap upon Coaches is there ?

Edited November 28, 2014 by 3rdand12

[Kelly the Dog]

I do agree. The financial commitment might be bolstered with T Pegula at the helm. J. Littman is gone and a new program is in place i would hope by now.

There is a cap on players but i dont think there is a cap upon Coaches is there ?

No. And that will be one of the best perks and differences in the Pegula era.

[3rdand12]

No. And that will be one of the best perks and differences in the Pegula era.

This is a rather exciting time to be a part of , with regard to our Buffalo Bills .

I think.

[Dibs]

I just feel like this team is immensely talented.....even on the offensive side of the ball

 

They should be better thAn this offensively

 

I see so many people commenting on the supposed great talent we have on offense but I just don't see it.

 

The only real players of note on offence are Glenn, Wood, Jackson, Watkins and Woods. Glenn and Woods are having down years (Glenn missing nearly all of preseason didn't help). Jackson is no longer a feature back, is aging and has been hampered by injury. Woods is developing, but like many players, likely won't come into his own till year 3. And Watkins has been hampered by injury and is a rookie(still learning the game and making rookie mistakes).

 

Really, the only A-grade star player on offense is Glenn. We should likely develop some more over the next couple of years(that are already on the roster) but at the moment we severely lack true star players as well as consistent good players.

 

 

Compared to our defence where we are loaded with stars and consistent good players at every posistion, our offence is IMO performing at a level which is only slightly below their current talent level.

 

Don't get me wrong here. I see a huge amount of potential talent on the offence(mainly WR & OL) but that potential talent has not yet manifested into true talent......and in combination with injuries, we have at best a mediocre offensive unit at this point in time.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Dibs

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Experianced coordinators are really important. Just look at what Schwartz has done with this D. The D is much better than last year. Hackett is in over his head. In the KC game and Miami game Orton had the same issues Manuel got benched for. Inaccurate, missing open receivers, inability to score TDs in red zone. Two coaches were brought in to help Hackett, but not much has changed. Can anyone explain the forth and one formation with Dixon as FB and Watkins at TB? Have they ever used that formation?

 

What happened to the fast paced offense? These guys tried to make a raw rookie run the fast pace, but not a ten year veteran? I'm not saying they should run it, but what is their plan? What is this offense?

 

 

I don't get this statement. First the KC game was all but won outside of poor player execution and mistakes, how does that show Hackett is in over his head? For the most part this team has been in positions to win in every game. Wouldn't the scores be more lopsided if he was truly over his head? That said, I believe an experienced OC may gave had better game plans against certain teams over the last 2 years but I do not know if you can say he is as bad as some of the OCs the team had under Jauron.

Edited November 28, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[#34fan]

Just for clarification, it was the f%*ing JETS! -They suck @ss.

 

We could have beaten those chumps with no OC at all.

[TPS]

I thought the Oline had one of its better games Monday, and Hackett was persistent in running the ball. A successful running game makes everything else work and look better. Without solid Oline play and a good running game, the Bills O looks like crap and Hackett looks like crap. Winning the next 4 games, and staying in the hunt, will come down to how well the Bills run the ball.

[K-9]

I see so many people commenting on the supposed great talent we have on offense but I just don't see it.

 

The only real players of note on offence are Glenn, Wood, Jackson, Watkins and Woods. Glenn and Woods are having down years (Glenn missing nearly all of preseason didn't help). Jackson is no longer a feature back, is aging and has been hampered by injury. Woods is developing, but like many players, likely won't come into his own till year 3. And Watkins has been hampered by injury and is a rookie(still learning the game and making rookie mistakes).

 

Really, the only A-grade star player on offense is Glenn. We should likely develop some more over the next couple of years(that are already on the roster) but at the moment we severely lack true star players as well as consistent good players.

 

 

Compared to our defence where we are loaded with stars and consistent good players at every posistion, our offence is IMO performing at a level which is only slightly below their current talent level.

 

Don't get me wrong here. I see a huge amount of potential talent on the offence(mainly WR & OL) but that potential talent has not yet manifested into true talent......and in combination with injuries, we have at best a mediocre offensive unit at this point in time.

 

I think this is a fair assessment. For all our dislike of the formations and personnel groups he prefers, Hackett's passing schemes routinely have two guys getting open on every play. Even in the redzone. And it's been like that all year. Crappy OCs just don't do that on a consistent basis. Biggest problem with the O is lack of consistent QB and OL play. Very hard to establish any rhythm without that. More stars would help.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Dan]

I see so many people commenting on the supposed great talent we have on offense but I just don't see it.

 

The only real players of note on offence are Glenn, Wood, Jackson, Watkins and Woods. Glenn and Woods are having down years (Glenn missing nearly all of preseason didn't help). Jackson is no longer a feature back, is aging and has been hampered by injury. Woods is developing, but like many players, likely won't come into his own till year 3. And Watkins has been hampered by injury and is a rookie(still learning the game and making rookie mistakes).

 

Really, the only A-grade star player on offense is Glenn. We should likely develop some more over the next couple of years(that are already on the roster) but at the moment we severely lack true star players as well as consistent good players.

 

 

Compared to our defence where we are loaded with stars and consistent good players at every posistion, our offence is IMO performing at a level which is only slightly below their current talent level.

 

Don't get me wrong here. I see a huge amount of potential talent on the offence(mainly WR & OL) but that potential talent has not yet manifested into true talent......and in combination with injuries, we have at best a mediocre offensive unit at this point in time.

But couldn't you make many of those same arguements about the defense just a short time ago? A. Williams was no good as a corner. McKelvin was a bust. Marcel was underperforming and a distraction. M.Williams needed to be traded. Then what happened? We got good defensive coaching, along with a few good player acquisitions. Now.... we have this uber talented defense.

 

It's hard to have one without the other. Talented players make the coaches look good, but good coaches bring out the talent in the players.

 

We have good players on offense. They're just consistently being put in difficult positions due to the scheme. When I see the formation and know the RB is getting the ball and hitting the A gap, I'm sure the defense does as well. So, where does the problem lie? With the line for not blocking? The RB for not breaking the tackles? Or the coach for asking his players to perform under such a circumstance?

[Beerball]

I think this is a fair assessment. For all our dislike of the formations and personnel groups he prefers, Hackett's passing schemes routinely have two guys getting open on every play. Even in the redzone. And it's been like that all year. Crappy OCs just don't do that on a consistent basis. Biggest problem with the O is lack of consistent QB and OL play. Very hard to establish any rhythm without that. More stars would help.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Still would like to see them use the middle of the field more in the passing game (not to the TE's, it's ok for WR's to venture there).

 

Regarding KTFABD's original point...I found myself thinking the exact same thing on Monday night. Less TE, more WR would IMO open things up for both the passing and running games.

[Dibs]

But couldn't you make many of those same arguements about the defense just a short time ago? A. Williams was no good as a corner. McKelvin was a bust. Marcel was underperforming and a distraction. M.Williams needed to be traded. Then what happened? We got good defensive coaching, along with a few good player acquisitions. Now.... we have this uber talented defense.

 

It's hard to have one without the other. Talented players make the coaches look good, but good coaches bring out the talent in the players.

 

We have good players on offense. They're just consistently being put in difficult positions due to the scheme. When I see the formation and know the RB is getting the ball and hitting the A gap, I'm sure the defense does as well. So, where does the problem lie? With the line for not blocking? The RB for not breaking the tackles? Or the coach for asking his players to perform under such a circumstance?

 

Yes, we could have said the same about the defence a short time ago. Dareus, A.Williams, Bradham & McKelvin were not going to be "good" back then. Like most players they needed a few years(& a few more for McK) to develop into consistently talented players. Mario wasn't going to miraculously recover from his injury......and Hughes, Brown, Lawson & Kiko were not on the team.

 

You seem to be making the error of mistaking potential or future talent with that of actual or present day talent. As I said above......I think we have a tonne of potential talent on the offense, but right now we are not abundantly talented on the offensive side of the ball(injuries also factor into the talent that we can put on the field today).

[Gray Beard]

I think this is a fair assessment. For all our dislike of the formations and personnel groups he prefers, Hackett's passing schemes routinely have two guys getting open on every play. Even in the redzone. And it's been like that all year. Crappy OCs just don't do that on a consistent basis. Biggest problem with the O is lack of consistent QB and OL play. Very hard to establish any rhythm without that. More stars would help.

 

GO BILLS!!

I agree with this post.

 

Next year Hackett will be an OC with two years of experience. Who will be available that will be a guaranteed improvement? Without a disruptive transition period?

 

His play-calling is getting better. The Bills have tried (weakly) to upgrade the O-Line with drafts and free-agents, but it is still a problem. They will probably keep trying.

 

I am not a Hackett fan, but the calls for "get a better OC" and "get a franchise QB" and "improve the O-Line" etc. are not realistic unless somebody can name the people who fit that description and are available.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Gray Beard

[C.Biscuit97]

Thank GOd!!!!!

[NoSaint]

I am not a Hackett fan, but the calls for "get a better OC" and "get a franchise QB" and "improve the O-Line" etc. are not realistic unless somebody can name the people who fit that description and are available.

 

realistically, there will be offensive minds, and offensive lineman available. there are every year. qb is a different discussion than those two. especially with coordinators, we will have to wait and see who comes free. i would be shocked if you looked at the list available in january and said "yup hackett is the best around" unless he shows some real growth the next month.

[Dan]

Yes, we could have said the same about the defence a short time ago. Dareus, A.Williams, Bradham & McKelvin were not going to be "good" back then. Like most players they needed a few years(& a few more for McK) to develop into consistently talented players. Mario wasn't going to miraculously recover from his injury......and Hughes, Brown, Lawson & Kiko were not on the team.

 

You seem to be making the error of mistaking potential or future talent with that of actual or present day talent. As I said above......I think we have a tonne of potential talent on the offense, but right now we are not abundantly talented on the offensive side of the ball(injuries also factor into the talent that we can put on the field today).

I'm saying that our present talent is underperforming based on the coaching staff and design of the offense. So, yes, there is a lot of potential talent on the offensive side of the ball, to that I agree with you. But, I contend that with our current offensive philospohy and coaching each individual's talent is not going to be fully realized.

 

The debate on this board seems to take two sides... 1) coaching is fine, we need a franchise QB, 2 Guards, and TE. And (2) coaching is not fine, we need that more than new players players.

 

I'm in the later group. I honestly don't think it matters which players we sign this off season, with the current OC and design of our offense, they're going to struggle and underperform against the better teams in the league.

[NoSaint]

 

I'm saying that our present talent is underperforming based on the coaching staff and design of the offense. So, yes, there is a lot of potential talent on the offensive side of the ball, to that I agree with you. But, I contend that with our current offensive philospohy and coaching each individual's talent is not going to be fully realized.

 

The debate on this board seems to take two sides... 1) coaching is fine, we need a franchise QB, 2 Guards, and TE. And (2) coaching is not fine, we need that more than new players players.

 

I'm in the later group. I honestly don't think it matters which players we sign this off season, with the current OC and design of our offense, they're going to struggle and underperform against the better teams in the league.

 

the only thing id add is im nervous about the prospect of marrone/hackett with another young qb. could work, but im not confident that even if we picked the right guy that they would be able to get him to where he needs to be.

[billykaykay]

some experienced OCs really suck too. Some inexperienced ones are really good. Just sayin. If you don't like Hackett, it may not be due to his inexperience. He just might not be very good.

I have friends & family in Oakland, NY, D.C., Tampa, & TN. All of them want to kick their OC to the curb. Except for perhaps Eli, all of them have average to below average Quarterbacking. Fans love to play OC during a game & we all want to have a Denver offense. Get a good QB & Hackett will look less like a rookie & more like a fresh young talent.

Complaining that Hackett keeps calling runs up the middle ignores the possibility that our Guards are unable to pull. Of course they don't really do that great with their straight ahead blocking either.

[Dan]

the only thing id add is im nervous about the prospect of marrone/hackett with another young qb. could work, but im not confident that even if we picked the right guy that they would be able to get him to where he needs to be.

I would add to that.... what good young QBs are they going to find as well? Is there anyone in the league currently to trade for that's a sure fire upgrade? Are there any top "sleeper" draft prospects (considering we don't have a first round pick)? I honestly don't know.

 

So, if you consider next year we'll have Orton/EJ and perhaps another questionable signing (i.e. Bradford, RG3, mid-round draft pick, etc.), my question then becomes what has Hackett shown to make anyone believe that in year 3 he'll suddenly wake up and figure out how to put our current players in the best position to win?

 

Essentially, I think we're in a position where it's easier to upgrade the offensive design and play calling (i.e. new OC) than it is the QB and possibly line.

 

I would add that I'm also highly skeptical of replacing Marrone. I feel the team is close to breaking through. If you bring in a new HC, that invariably means overhaul of assistants, defensive/offensive schemes, many players, and so forth. I truly don't think we need to do all that to become a winning franchise. But, we do need to upgrade our offensive production and I've seen no improvement from year 1 to year 2 with our current offense. Hence, to keep status quo and hope year 3 sudnly it all clicks seems illogical.