BuckeyeBill Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 "I don't think Drew can win the SB in '05 but he played well enough to earn a shot at the starting job next year." That right there is a loser mentality. 226029[/snapback] Briliant Cliff Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I have been saying the same thing all along, you just haven't listened. Not that it's surprising. Most posters on this board are that way. hell when shittoejam, PF, and ice are your heroes I can understand why it took so long to get through. In reality, I am surprised it ever got through. 226217[/snapback] Well, at least we still have personal attacks to fall back on in lieu of the Bledsoe thing For the record, I have no idea who PF is.....ICE I could never stand to begin with........and if the other guy you mentioned is Stojan, then yeah, I think the guy is pretty funny. I've only got room for one 'hero' in my life, so I can't really agree with ya there........but in the words of Alaska Darin, "don't let that get in the way". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Well, at least we still have personal attacks to fall back on in lieu of the Bledsoe thing For the record, I have no idea who PF is.....ICE I could never stand to begin with........and if the other guy you mentioned is Stojan, then yeah, I think the guy is pretty funny. I've only got room for one 'hero' in my life, so I can't really agree with ya there........but in the words of Alaska Darin, "don't let that get in the way". 226235[/snapback] Not really a personal attack, just reality for the most part on this board. I have been stating what I did above for a while, just you have seen it. Oh and yes shittoejam is the person you mentioned. PF is the person on vacation from Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Not really a personal attack, just reality for the most part on this board. I have been stating what I did above for a while, just you have seen it. Oh and yes shittoejam is the person you mentioned. PF is the person on vacation from Indiana. 226239[/snapback] Well I don't have the time or the energy to dig up past postings, but I could swear that you were defending Bledsoe pretty hard for a while, bro. One of the other things that people do a lot on this board is switch positions......but since you're saying you've been consistent all along, I'll leave it at your word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Well I don't have the time or the energy to dig up past postings, but I could swear that you were defending Bledsoe pretty hard for a while, bro. One of the other things that people do a lot on this board is switch positions......but since you're saying you've been consistent all along, I'll leave it at your word 226243[/snapback] What I have always said is I have my doubts about JP. I feel Drew is the better QB, but if the Bills give them a fair open competition, then put the best man out there. If the Bills cut bait with Drew and don't bring someone in to push JP and they just give the rains to him and he sucks, I will be pretty damn pissed is what I have said.dd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 What I have always said is I have my doubts about JP. I feel Drew is the better QB, but if the Bills give them a fair open competition, then put the best man out there. If the Bills cut bait with Drew and don't bring someone in to push JP and they just give the rains to him and he sucks, I will be pretty damn pissed is what I have said.dd 226251[/snapback] I don't think there is any doubt that Drew is the better QB right now. JP has never started a game in the NFL. That's the main reason I have been saying that I don't think you can expect a level playing field when it comes to training camp. JP is not going to be able to outperform Drew in the beginning. That being said, most of us who are on the crusade think they should bring in an established vet, too. I don't think anyone on here is advocating JP as the starter with nobody proven behind him - Blesdoe or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I don't think there is any doubt that Drew is the QB right now. JP has never started a game in the NFL. That's the main reason I have been saying that I don't think you can expect a level playing field when it comes to training camp. JP is not going to be able to outperform Drew in the beginning. That being said, most of us who are on the crusade think they should bring in an established vet, too. I don't think anyone on here is advocating JP as the starter with nobody proven behind him - Blesdoe or otherwise. 226254[/snapback] Yeah I have seen the names. Kordell, Batch, Fiedler, Warner, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP-era Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Don't get me wrong, I still think his '04 play was inadequate as he and the O, the ST (the Lindell miss and Clements PR fumble), and the D (letting the Pitt scrubs run al over them- a 4th string RB? please) screwed up their chance to make the playoffs in the Pitts game in a big way. However, after the major disaster of his play in '03 where this team failed to rack up any points multiple quarters in a row and the O dragged down a pretty gritty and real D performance I rerally expected nothing at all (again) from Bledsoe in 2004. I was wrong in my estimation of how he would play in 2004. While it still may be true that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, I had allowed the tirades by many against Bledsoe on TSW to allow me to forget that he actually knew a few old tricks which under Clements/MM/Wyche he was able to bring to bear which allowed Bledsoe to play a good role in the winning streak before his and the team's power outage and untimely demise versus Pitts. DOES ANYONE OUT THERE DENY THAT BLEDSOE IMPROVED IN SIGNIFICANT WAYS (not significant enough to be part of a playoff team unfortunately) IN 2004? Specifically, I would point to: 1. Clements and the team did not over-rely on his arm like Kevin Killdrive- I think one of the things the Bills did which grealy increased the productivity of Bledsoe and the O was to limit his ability to audible. Bledsoe himself said this grealy simplified the O which I think made it easier for him and the WR's and for him and the blockers to be on the same page, Part of the problem I saw was that Killdrive himself called too many pass plays to have balance and that Bledsoe like most competitors would often try to do to much and relied too much on what he liked to do and would audible out of the too few rushes called by Killdrive to pass the ball even on third and short. I think the better game calling and the limiting of Bledsoe's ability to audible or call pass-happy audibles really helped his production. 2. The Statue can actually run the ball- I think folks fell into the trap of taking the fact that Bledsoe is far better as a thrower than as a runner as actually meaning he can't run the ball at all. A QB has to at least provide some threat that he may run the ball and pick up critical yards at least some of the time, or the D is going to sell itself out completely on the blitz and be more effective at rushing the QB. Bledsoe is a big boy in size and has bounced back up from punishment and tackles when he is sacked so there should be no fear that he is so fragile we should never run the ball. I really liked the several play calls we made where Bledsoe was able to pick up 5-7 yards running the QB draw on 2nd and 10 type plays. The key to being successful in getting the first down if you blow a first down pass or WM is held to a yard or two on a first down run is to know we have 2 plays to get 8-10 yards. If we misfire on a second down pass then fuggaboutit on 3rd down as the blitz will kill us on a must pass down, by having Bledsoe pick up positive yards on the draw on 2nd down by showing pass and then having him run this was simply good football. I think this use of him also reminded me that like any QB who plays this game for awhile, Bledsoe does have the ability to not only hang in the pocket and throw it at the last second but also make some nifty sidestep moves from time to time. Use of the alarm clock set for 4 seconds in practice and reinforcing the habit of Bledsoe delivering the ball rather than locking onto his favorite receiver and going into his familiar pat-pat-pat-sack, was a great replacement for Parcells constantly yelling at Bledsoe just throw the damn ball. 3. He really did a nice job with play fakes and running the play out- The cadillac example of this was when MM actually took points of the board when the Bills called TO on a 4th and 1 and Lindell actually put the kick through the uprights from outside the 40. We instead lined up and Bledsoe apparently was going to do a QB sneak to the right side but at the last minute he turned and pitched it to WM who scampered over 40 yards for the TD. Great call by the Bills and great fake and pitch by Bledsoe. He consistently showed good ability to keep moving even after hand-offs to WM, thus on the several plays where WM turned back to him and pitched him the ball, the D was fooled and he was able to throw some nice bombs to Evans and Moulds for big gains. Even better for the Bills who want the future to happen as quickly as possible, when you watch Losman play now he is doing the same thing when he plays and this development is good to see. Overall, I was a pretty vocal advocate of the Bills looking elsewhere for our 2004 QB after last year's Bledsoe debacle. I admit I was a bit disappointed by TD redoing his deal rather than cutting him and simply considering his acqusition a good move when he did it as we needed to replace RJ, but it was a wash at best since he played well in 2002 and sucked in 2003. Yet, what impressed me most was that I think last year showed that MM/Clements revival of the careers of Maddox and Kordellia were not flukes and they really squeezed far more out of Bledsoe than I thought they would last year. This brings us to 2005 and I think that TD/MM are doing just the right thing with handling the QB situation. I do not think Bledsoe is a good bet to deliver us to the promised land in '05. However, with the better production they got out of Bledsoe in 04 winning and making the playoffs with him as QB is still not likely but is not impossible in my judgment. By insisting that the QB job is one to be won on the field and setting the groundwork for a competition between Bledsoe and our QB of the future they bith put pressure on Bledsoe to perform even better because we need it and also on Losman to step up as quickly as he can. Even better, by attaching this call to the specifics of Bledsoe giving back (or simply extending his contract and lowering his immediate cap hit) on his contract so we have more cap room to make more deals, it will put us in a better situation to win. Ultimately I hope Bledsoe is strong enough to face reality that he is on the backside of his career and the best thing for the Bills (and I think also for his legacy and his finances) is to be the team player he has been in the past and accept that he will get a fair shot to win this job on the field if he pulls off the unlikely and improves his play in 05 over 04 just as he improved his play and production in 04 over 03. It is to be hoped that he trusts in MM/Clements/Wyche to be good at what they do and fair in assessing Losman's development and his play and let him play and lead the team if he stands a good chance of putting up playoff level Ws and bench him if Losman shows that his future is now. My sense is that it is not unlikely that even if Losman proves to be the real deal that a chance like the one Bledsoe had and performed well with in the 2001 AF championship will occur. I insist that Bledsoe fully deserves his SB ring for that season because though it was clearly Brady's team, they would not have the ring if Bledsoe has not done what he did and played QB for them in the majority of a must-win game against Oakland and even throw the winning TD. My sense is that the Bledsoe legacy will be a great one and he will even totally deserve entry into the HOF if his legacy is one of leading the Pats to the SB under Parcells, playing an essential role in the Pats winning the SB under Belichick and him being on an SB winning team as a back-up (and in the NFL it is simply the reality that back-up QBs are quite likely to be called upon to make a few critical plays and even start) for the Buffalo Bills with and behind JP Losman in 2005. I hope Losman proves worthy of starting in 2005, but if he isn't there yet (he doesn't have to be perfect in my mind, just good enough to win some while he is learning) I feel OK abou the Bills going with Bledsoe if he is man enough, athlete enough, team player enough and Buffalo Bill enough to take a paycut. 225990[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I guess my expectations are a little higher.... I would actually like to see this team make the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 "I don't think Drew can win the SB in '05 but he played well enough to earn a shot at the starting job next year." That right there is a loser mentality. 226029[/snapback] start for who ??????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP-era Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Don't get me wrong, I still think his '04 play was inadequate as he and the O, the ST (the Lindell miss and Clements PR fumble), and the D (letting the Pitt scrubs run al over them- a 4th string RB? please) screwed up their chance to make the playoffs in the Pitts game in a big way. However, after the major disaster of his play in '03 where this team failed to rack up any points multiple quarters in a row and the O dragged down a pretty gritty and real D performance I rerally expected nothing at all (again) from Bledsoe in 2004. I was wrong in my estimation of how he would play in 2004. While it still may be true that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, I had allowed the tirades by many against Bledsoe on TSW to allow me to forget that he actually knew a few old tricks which under Clements/MM/Wyche he was able to bring to bear which allowed Bledsoe to play a good role in the winning streak before his and the team's power outage and untimely demise versus Pitts. DOES ANYONE OUT THERE DENY THAT BLEDSOE IMPROVED IN SIGNIFICANT WAYS (not significant enough to be part of a playoff team unfortunately) IN 2004? Specifically, I would point to: 1. Clements and the team did not over-rely on his arm like Kevin Killdrive- I think one of the things the Bills did which grealy increased the productivity of Bledsoe and the O was to limit his ability to audible. Bledsoe himself said this grealy simplified the O which I think made it easier for him and the WR's and for him and the blockers to be on the same page, Part of the problem I saw was that Killdrive himself called too many pass plays to have balance and that Bledsoe like most competitors would often try to do to much and relied too much on what he liked to do and would audible out of the too few rushes called by Killdrive to pass the ball even on third and short. I think the better game calling and the limiting of Bledsoe's ability to audible or call pass-happy audibles really helped his production. 2. The Statue can actually run the ball- I think folks fell into the trap of taking the fact that Bledsoe is far better as a thrower than as a runner as actually meaning he can't run the ball at all. A QB has to at least provide some threat that he may run the ball and pick up critical yards at least some of the time, or the D is going to sell itself out completely on the blitz and be more effective at rushing the QB. Bledsoe is a big boy in size and has bounced back up from punishment and tackles when he is sacked so there should be no fear that he is so fragile we should never run the ball. I really liked the several play calls we made where Bledsoe was able to pick up 5-7 yards running the QB draw on 2nd and 10 type plays. The key to being successful in getting the first down if you blow a first down pass or WM is held to a yard or two on a first down run is to know we have 2 plays to get 8-10 yards. If we misfire on a second down pass then fuggaboutit on 3rd down as the blitz will kill us on a must pass down, by having Bledsoe pick up positive yards on the draw on 2nd down by showing pass and then having him run this was simply good football. I think this use of him also reminded me that like any QB who plays this game for awhile, Bledsoe does have the ability to not only hang in the pocket and throw it at the last second but also make some nifty sidestep moves from time to time. Use of the alarm clock set for 4 seconds in practice and reinforcing the habit of Bledsoe delivering the ball rather than locking onto his favorite receiver and going into his familiar pat-pat-pat-sack, was a great replacement for Parcells constantly yelling at Bledsoe just throw the damn ball. 3. He really did a nice job with play fakes and running the play out- The cadillac example of this was when MM actually took points of the board when the Bills called TO on a 4th and 1 and Lindell actually put the kick through the uprights from outside the 40. We instead lined up and Bledsoe apparently was going to do a QB sneak to the right side but at the last minute he turned and pitched it to WM who scampered over 40 yards for the TD. Great call by the Bills and great fake and pitch by Bledsoe. He consistently showed good ability to keep moving even after hand-offs to WM, thus on the several plays where WM turned back to him and pitched him the ball, the D was fooled and he was able to throw some nice bombs to Evans and Moulds for big gains. Even better for the Bills who want the future to happen as quickly as possible, when you watch Losman play now he is doing the same thing when he plays and this development is good to see. Overall, I was a pretty vocal advocate of the Bills looking elsewhere for our 2004 QB after last year's Bledsoe debacle. I admit I was a bit disappointed by TD redoing his deal rather than cutting him and simply considering his acqusition a good move when he did it as we needed to replace RJ, but it was a wash at best since he played well in 2002 and sucked in 2003. Yet, what impressed me most was that I think last year showed that MM/Clements revival of the careers of Maddox and Kordellia were not flukes and they really squeezed far more out of Bledsoe than I thought they would last year. This brings us to 2005 and I think that TD/MM are doing just the right thing with handling the QB situation. I do not think Bledsoe is a good bet to deliver us to the promised land in '05. However, with the better production they got out of Bledsoe in 04 winning and making the playoffs with him as QB is still not likely but is not impossible in my judgment. By insisting that the QB job is one to be won on the field and setting the groundwork for a competition between Bledsoe and our QB of the future they bith put pressure on Bledsoe to perform even better because we need it and also on Losman to step up as quickly as he can. Even better, by attaching this call to the specifics of Bledsoe giving back (or simply extending his contract and lowering his immediate cap hit) on his contract so we have more cap room to make more deals, it will put us in a better situation to win. Ultimately I hope Bledsoe is strong enough to face reality that he is on the backside of his career and the best thing for the Bills (and I think also for his legacy and his finances) is to be the team player he has been in the past and accept that he will get a fair shot to win this job on the field if he pulls off the unlikely and improves his play in 05 over 04 just as he improved his play and production in 04 over 03. It is to be hoped that he trusts in MM/Clements/Wyche to be good at what they do and fair in assessing Losman's development and his play and let him play and lead the team if he stands a good chance of putting up playoff level Ws and bench him if Losman shows that his future is now. My sense is that it is not unlikely that even if Losman proves to be the real deal that a chance like the one Bledsoe had and performed well with in the 2001 AF championship will occur. I insist that Bledsoe fully deserves his SB ring for that season because though it was clearly Brady's team, they would not have the ring if Bledsoe has not done what he did and played QB for them in the majority of a must-win game against Oakland and even throw the winning TD. My sense is that the Bledsoe legacy will be a great one and he will even totally deserve entry into the HOF if his legacy is one of leading the Pats to the SB under Parcells, playing an essential role in the Pats winning the SB under Belichick and him being on an SB winning team as a back-up (and in the NFL it is simply the reality that back-up QBs are quite likely to be called upon to make a few critical plays and even start) for the Buffalo Bills with and behind JP Losman in 2005. I hope Losman proves worthy of starting in 2005, but if he isn't there yet (he doesn't have to be perfect in my mind, just good enough to win some while he is learning) I feel OK abou the Bills going with Bledsoe if he is man enough, athlete enough, team player enough and Buffalo Bill enough to take a paycut. 225990[/snapback] Sure, he was better. Turns out cat sh_t is better than dog sh_t. Sorry to be crass but your point is only that he is better, not that he is good enough. I feel strongly as do many others, that HE IS NOT!!! I hope your not implying that he is good enough. Are you? This team needs better performance from our QB. I want a guy that can actually beat the Pats, remember them? They are the team keeping us from winning the division. A division win would mean potentially a bye and home field advantage. That is HUGE! Besides, I hope you arent trying to lead us to embracing this clown as our starter again. Did you mark your calendar and highlight a date that you would come here and say that he was just fine after he couldnt beat the damn Steelers 3rd stringers? Fans dont forget. I wont forget. I know that HE cost us the playoffs this year. That HE lost the NE game and the Steelers game. Say what you will, but a guy who can scramble might have avoided those sacks for fumbles and TD's. Drew CANT AND NEVER WILL. I simply wont hear the offseason ridiculousness where everything blue becomes green and the sky is actually brown. The only thing thats brown is the sh_t that many try to convince us is the truth. Drew is mediocre and stands a very good chance of getting even worse. Even if he is the same player, we should expect the same results. I dont want to watch other teams in the playoffs any more! Drew cant get it done, game over, move on! Hell using your mentality, Harrington should be our guy, he did have a better passers rating than Drew after all! We both know better. 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DeeRay Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 you're pleasantly surprised by Bledsoe's performance this year over last year? Wow... dare to be adequate, will ya!!! we're talking about a 12 year veteran QB that flat out sucks...and you're giving him an "atttaboy" for jumping from a 73.0 QB rating in 2003 to a whopping 76.6 QB rating in 2004???????? Let's be real... for his rating to only go up that much when he had a better ST unit and defensive unit that handed the ball over to the offense more than any other team over the last half of the season.... well, is absolutely pathetic... and his sack total was cut but at least a third over the previous season. the bottom line is... we all have got to stop this bull sh-- coddling and apologizing of this 12 year veteran piece of sh-- qb and hold his sorry ass accountable for his piss poor performance. he's done... at least as a starter for the Bills... stick a fork in him and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 hell when shittoejam, PF, and ice are your heroes I can understand why it took so long to get through. In reality, I am surprised it ever got through. 226217[/snapback] I being dead serious right now, I haven't heard someone make fun of my last name by saying "toe jam" since 4th grade. Seriously. Oh, the sweet irony of someone who is trying to prove they are somehow superior being the next to do so. I love it. You say myself and Ice are the "heros". Well, maybe people prefer others who are at worst off beat, loud, or intrusive over a group who constantly reminds them how much "better" or "smarter" they are than the masses. You "smart" guys crack me up. Keep re-assuring yourself how smart you are, and maybe one day others will believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGTEleven Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 The first post of this thread reminds me of most of my tee shots. It is long and wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 The first post of this thread reminds me of most of my tee shots. It is long and wrong. 226449[/snapback] Or how many girls describe.... oh, nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I being dead serious right now, I haven't heard someone make fun of my last name by saying "toe jam" since 4th grade. 226440[/snapback] Your scars are showing, such a long time ago. Tis a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 "I don't think Drew can win the SB in '05 but he played well enough to earn a shot at the starting job next year." That right there is a loser mentality. 226029[/snapback] I don't think this is a loser mentality at all, its merely a recognition on my part that you may and the Prez on Iraq may be all-seeing and all-knowing on everything or simply on how Bledsoe will do, but I really underestimated MM/Clements/Wyche 's ability to win games with Bledsoe running the O. I thought the Bills were likely condemned to a losing record when an extension was reached with Bledsoe, but thankfully I was wrong. I'm willing to at least acknowledge that I may in fact be wrong that the Bills O braintrust can squeeze eveb more success out of the team with Bledsoe (if he were to aggree to the chopped down contract). If he is willing to take back-up money I think he would be one of the better back-ups we could get for Losman and I would be happy to give him a fair shot at keeping the starting job if he proves on the field he is up to it. Look at it this way. Do you think JP can win the '05 SB? I don't. Even though I think he is not going to lead us to an SB win I think he deserves a shot at the starting job. Is this a loser mentality? Perhaps you simply are sure JP will win the '05 SB and because of this you have a winning mentality in contrast to my loser mentality. If so, then I have some WMD fresh from Iraq to sell to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 I guess my expectations are a little higher.... I would actually like to see this team make the playoffs 226337[/snapback] My original post was actually meant as a tip of the hat to what I thought was some work by Clements/MM/Wyche which surprised me that a new coaching staff could do in turning around the Bills' season. If they are able to achieve the same level of improvement in this team which turned a 6-10 record into a 9-7 mark then the playoffs are certainly possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 If so, then I have some WMD fresh from Iraq to sell to you 226921[/snapback] I'm confused.. is JP = Bush and Drew = Kerry.. or.. JP = Kerry and Drew = Bush... and does that mean Travis = Sharpton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 I guess it's safe to say vs. expectations that were close to none on My part, DB exceeded those expectations...But that's not saying much... I hope all this speculation concerning the future of the Bills QB is over VERY soon...I'm sick of it to be honest...Let's move on with JP and let the chips fall where they may... I don't think I can take another year of this debate...It's boring me to death... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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