Marrone playing the sympathy card

[C.Biscuit97]

Except you keep dancing around the fact that everyone who wants to argue what a bum Marrone is also conveniently says we're terrible at QB. They can't both be bad and have us at 5-5.

 

So, I'll ask, again, is there such thing as a top-third coach who doesn't also have a top-third QB? If the answer is 'no,' then why is your ire directed toward Marrone, and why do you insist on his firing?

 

I love you keep ignoring the fact that Marrone had a huge part in drafting a QB in the first round last year. He trusted a young QB to get developed by Nate Hackett, who was both the OC and QB coach. He then benched EJ for a proven .500 qb.

 

I've said all along that I'd keep Marrone at 5-5 if this was starting EJ. But since he made the switch, anything less than a winning record is a failure. He put that pressure on himself after the switch.

 

The guy couldn't develop one QB, settle for Mr. Average, why should he ever have a shot at drafting another QB?

[The Big Cat]

do you think russell wilson is a top 3rd qb? do you think seattle wins the sb last year with marrone as coach? i say no to both

 

He's on the cusp, and yes, they would have. A run heavy team with a suffocating defense is precisely the game Marrone wants to play. Very little would have changed.

[C.Biscuit97]

do you think russell wilson is a top 3rd qb? do you think seattle wins the sb last year with marrone as coach? i say no to both

 

Seattle was dumb enough to hire a veteran NFL OC.

 

He's on the cusp, and yes, they would have. A run heavy team with a suffocating defense is precisely the game Marrone wants to play. Very little would have changed.

 

Wilson is a good QB but he's not on the cusp. He had like 4 straight games of under 200 yards passing. And according to folks here, passing yards are the only thing that matters.

[The Big Cat]

I love you keep ignoring the fact that Marrone had a huge part in drafting a QB in the first round last year. He trusted a young QB to get developed by Nate Hackett, who was both the OC and QB coach. He then benched EJ for a proven .500 qb.

 

I've said all along that I'd keep Marrone at 5-5 if this was starting EJ. But since he made the switch, anything less than a winning record is a failure. He put that pressure on himself after the switch.

 

The guy couldn't develop one QB, settle for Mr. Average, why should he ever have a shot at drafting another QB?

 

I don't ignore that fact at all. Quite the contrary, I acknowledged it earlier in this thread, stating that the way the FO has managed the QB situation has been pretty terrible.

 

But I also acknowledged that short of bringing in Alex Smith, I don't think there's much else they could have done.

 

I also think that benching EJ was the right thing to do and that Orton is the better QB, period. EJ might have some physical tools that Orton lacks, but there's been plenty of information coming from OBD since Orton took over that his overall approach and preparation and the way he holds the rest of the offense accountable are traits that EJ was sorely lacking.

 

Seattle was dumb enough to hire a veteran NFL OC.

 

 

 

Wilson is a good QB but he's not on the cusp. He had like 4 straight games of under 200 yards passing. And according to folks here, passing yards are the only thing that matters.

 

Wilson has ZERO receivers. And their best tight end is on IR. So, I'm not sure why you cited stats then immediately said stats don't matter, but in Wilson's case especially, they don't even remotely begin to tell the story of their offense.

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't ignore that fact at all. Quite the contrary, I acknowledged it earlier in this thread, stating that the way the FO has managed the QB situation has been pretty terrible.

 

But I also acknowledged that short of bringing in Alex Smith, I don't think there's much else they could have done.

 

I also think that benching EJ was the right thing to do and that Orton is the better QB, period. EJ might have some physical tools that Orton lacks, but there's been plenty of information coming from OBD since Orton took over that his overall approach and preparation and the way he holds the rest of the offense accountable are traits that EJ was sorely lacking.

 

Marrone had much more say in the QB position than you act like he does. And for the most part, EJ was doing Alex Smith type stuff (except he actually threw tds to wrs).

 

And the 9 year vet with a history of average play, helped scored 1 td in our 2 biggest game. That's on the coach for putting him in the first place.

 

I wanted 2 things from this season: playoffs and to see EJ develop. The second you benched EJ, you better make the playoffs. This has been a complete waste of year because of the Orton decision and since you can't fire the team, you fire the coach.

 

I get you like to argue but what have you seen that makes you think Marrone is a good coach? Because all I have seen in a Jauron clone and I actually think Jauron got more out of his players.

[The Big Cat]

Marrone had much more say in the QB position than you act like he does.

 

According to?

 

And for the most part, EJ was doing Alex Smith type stuff (except he actually threw tds to wrs).

 

Mmmmmm, not so sure about that. I'm going to come right out and challenge you on this one, because it's when people say things like this that I'm convinced you don't pay attention to teams outside the Bills. Alex Smith does and has been playing at a level that EJ hasn't graced yet in his career.

 

And the 9 year vet with a history of average play, helped scored 1 td in our 2 biggest game. That's on the coach for putting him in the first place.

 

Okay. So?

 

I wanted 2 things from this season: playoffs and to see EJ develop. The second you benched EJ, you better make the playoffs. This has been a complete waste of year because of the Orton decision and since you can't fire the team, you fire the coach.

 

I get you like to argue but what have you seen that makes you think Marrone is a good coach? Because all I have seen in a Jauron clone and I actually think Jauron got more out of his players.

 

Straight up, I've seen a team that's been coached well enough to be in a position to be 7-3 right now, if not for some terrible execution: EJ in Houston and all the examples I've given from the KC game.

 

I know that you'll come back and tell me the Bills were lucky to win in Detroit, fine. At worse, then, the team has been coached well enough to be 6-4 with a chance to be front runners in the WC race going into the last quarter of the season.

 

And, consistent with everything I've said time and time again for the last EIGHT YEARS on this message board, to be in that position, in a very crowded AFC race, with Kyle !@#$ing Orton as your quarterback, well then clearly you're doing what coaches are paid to do: put your team in a position to sucked succeed. <--- EDIT (lol, greatest autocorrect ever?)

Edited November 24, 2014 by The Big Cat

[reddogblitz]

 

Straight up, I've seen a team that's been coached well enough to be in a position to be 7-3 right now, if not for some terrible execution: EJ in Houston and all the examples I've given from the KC game.

 

 

How much, if any, does the coach affect execution? Or, can a coach only tell players what to do and if they don't execute it's all on the players and not the coach? Maybe coaches can't get the message across or maybe it's just a dumb message.

 

I would argue that a team not executing has coaching problems. Why are they not executing? Do we just have bad players and the coaches are good (we're still waiting for you to tell us exactly what on god's green earth Coach Marrone is even above average at)?

[The Big Cat]

How much, if any, does the coach affect execution? Or, can a coach only tell players what to do and if they don't execute it's all on the players and not the coach? Maybe coaches can't get the message across or maybe it's just a dumb message.

 

I would argue that a team not executing has coaching problems. Why are they not executing? Do we just have bad players and the coaches are good (we're still waiting for you to tell us exactly what on god's green earth Coach Marrone is even above average at)?

 

I would agree with you to an extent, but the execution I'm referring to is a.) getting stripped with a free path to the endzone b.) straight up sailing passes and c.) missing receivers running wide open all over the field.

 

In each case, players were put into a position to make a play and simply didn't.

 

We're not talking about whiffed tackles, we're not even talking about whiffed blocks, we're talking about basic stuff.

 

Plus, they're getting paid too.

 

What is he good at? Fine: finding a good defensive coordinator. Getting the right pieces together to have very reliable special teams. Finding an OC (now I know some of you are going to hate this) that can design plays that have receivers running wide open all over the field.

 

I don't understand why he gets all the blame for the offense failing, but no credit whatsoever when it comes to overseeing a defense that a.) broke a franchise record for sacks last year and is b.) leading the entire NFL now having played one less than game than all but three other teams.

[C.Biscuit97]

I would agree with you to an extent, but the execution I'm referring to is a.) getting stripped with a free path to the endzone b.) straight up sailing passes and c.) missing receivers running wide open all over the field.

 

In each case, players were put into a position to make a play and simply didn't.

 

We're not talking about whiffed tackles, we're not even talking about whiffed blocks, we're talking about basic stuff.

 

Plus, they're getting paid too.

 

What is he good at? Fine: finding a good defensive coordinator. Getting the right pieces together to have very reliable special teams. Finding an OC (now I know some of you are going to hate this) that can design plays that have receivers running wide open all over the field.

 

I don't understand why he gets all the blame for the offense failing, but no credit whatsoever when it comes to overseeing a defense that a.) broke a franchise record for sacks last year and is b.) leading the entire NFL now having played one less than game than all but three other teams.

 

He gets the blame because he is a coach with an offensive background!!! Why is Seattle's defense awesome? Because Pete Carroll has a defensive background. Sean Payton is an offensive coach so he gets credit for that. Marrone does nothing to contribute to the defensive success.

 

And he also has offensive line background and it is one of the worst units on the team. He has completely regressed snce Gailey was here. And he keeps Urbik on the bench for whatever reason when it is clear he is our best guard.

 

In a passing league that encourages you to be aggressive and put points on the board, we struggle to score 17-20 points a game. You are working way to hard to justify a coach who really doesn't have a great resume of success to begin with.

[The Big Cat]

He gets the blame because he is a coach with an offensive background!!! Why is Seattle's defense awesome? Because Pete Carroll has a defensive background. Sean Payton is an offensive coach so he gets credit for that. Marrone does nothing to contribute to the defensive success.

 

And he also has offensive line background and it is one of the worst units on the team. He has completely regressed snce Gailey was here. And he keeps Urbik on the bench for whatever reason when it is clear he is our best guard.

 

In a passing league that encourages you to be aggressive and put points on the board, we struggle to score 17-20 points a game. You are working way to hard to justify a coach who really doesn't have a great resume of success to begin with.

 

And there's just no way shape or form that you're completely overstating the importance of a coach's "background."

 

Even though the coaches themselves undersell it all the time.

 

So, when Bellicheat's defenses were atrocious but his offenses were great, I remember when everyone in New England called for HIS job.

 

And if the inverse is true, then please please please please stop gushing over Chan Gailey because he accomplished the sheer opposite of Marrone, gearing up an offensive game plan and fielding some of the worst defenses in franchise history.

[section122]

 

playing in detroit is a disadvantage to the bills.

 

they should still beat the jets.

 

if they lose, his firing should be confirmed.

 

These 3 things completely contradict themselves. They are at a clear disadvantage. Lost a home game, lost practice time, moving indoors. All of these set the Bills up for failure. I will be hoping for a Bills win but can completely understand if the team doesn't get it after this last week. Football doesn't happen in a vacuum and the players don't live in bubbles. There are many outside factors working against the Bills this week.

 

1. Mike Pettine
    
   
2. Ryan
    
   
3. Fisher
    
   
4. Smith
    
   
5. Coghlin
    
   
6. Garrett
   
7. Fox
    
   
8. Philbin
    
   
9. Gruden
    
   
10. Whisenhunt
    

I can get to 22 easily. 23 and 24th choice is tough as I don't think the rest are any better than Marrone. Marrone is essentially a bottom tier coach.

 

You got to 22 easily but 10 of your selections are highly questionable.

 

I would put Lovie in their better than list even though he is losing a lot in his first year coaching a team that was a train wreck the last 2 seasons.

 

Even though he is losing a lot in his first year coaching a team that was a train wreck the last 13 seasons buys you nothing huh? The fact that this team is at .500 more than halfway through the season buys nothing huh? How about the fact that Lovie will be lucky to get to 6-10 this year?

 

who used the word appalled? i'm dissatisfied as i have been with our coaching for 15 years. it's time we get someone that would be a consensus candidate for top 1/3 of the league. i don't think marrone is that and other than you and possibly a couple others here, you won't find many that would try to argue that.. perhaps with a new owner we can attract such a candidate. as documented in the polian thread, it wasn't a realistic option with wilson as owner. and no, there's no gaurantee that such a candidate will be wildly successful. but it's a more likely scenario than taking whoever could be coerced to sign when the last owner was around.

 

There in lies the rub. It isn't Marrone you are frustrated with it is the last 15 years, 13 of which Marrone had nothing to do with.

 

When did Bills fans become so entitled? Seriously! How can 5-5 be a disappointment for any of you? After the **** show that has been the last 14 years a team that is competitive every single week and at .500 after 11 weeks somehow isn't good enough for you? It is disgusting. The Bills have a horrible o-line, start a bottom of the barrel qb, and have lost their top 2 rbs on what was supposed to be a run dependent team. Go back and look at the preseason threads. People were hoping for 8-8, hoping for it. Now all of a sudden it isn't good enough?!?!

 

Here is what I know. Under Marrone the Bills are competing in every game. Under Marrone the D has been top notch. Under Marrone the Bills haven't dropped a wtf game (Oak-KC, DEN-STL, etc..). Under Marrone you can see the team playing with toughness, they aren't getting beat up every week. I can't believe, after 14 years of terrible football, everyone wants to move on from the first guy who has brought them back to respectability - after less than 2 years!!!

[The Big Cat]

These 3 things completely contradict themselves. They are at a clear disadvantage. Lost a home game, lost practice time, moving indoors. All of these set the Bills up for failure. I will be hoping for a Bills win but can completely understand if the team doesn't get it after this last week. Football doesn't happen in a vacuum and the players don't live in bubbles. There are many outside factors working against the Bills this week.

 

 

 

You got to 22 easily but 10 of your selections are highly questionable.

 

 

 

Even though he is losing a lot in his first year coaching a team that was a train wreck the last 13 seasons buys you nothing huh? The fact that this team is at .500 more than halfway through the season buys nothing huh? How about the fact that Lovie will be lucky to get to 6-10 this year?

 

 

 

There in lies the rub. It isn't Marrone you are frustrated with it is the last 15 years, 13 of which Marrone had nothing to do with.

 

When did Bills fans become so entitled? Seriously! How can 5-5 be a disappointment for any of you? After the **** show that has been the last 14 years a team that is competitive every single week and at .500 after 11 weeks somehow isn't good enough for you? It is disgusting. The Bills have a horrible o-line, start a bottom of the barrel qb, and have lost their top 2 rbs on what was supposed to be a run dependent team. Go back and look at the preseason threads. People were hoping for 8-8, hoping for it. Now all of a sudden it isn't good enough?!?!

 

Here is what I know. Under Marrone the Bills are competing in every game. Under Marrone the D has been top notch. Under Marrone the Bills haven't dropped a wtf game (Oak-KC, DEN-STL, etc..). Under Marrone you can see the team playing with toughness, they aren't getting beat up every week. I can't believe, after 14 years of terrible football, everyone wants to move on from the first guy who has brought them back to respectability - after less than 2 years!!!

 

I love that Mike Smith made the list of better coaches. Nobody watches other teams play, of this I'm certain. If a Bills coach would have mismanaged the clock to the extent that Smith did yesterday, this board and all of Bills Nation would be in flames right now.

[C.Biscuit97]

And there's just no way shape or form that you're completely overstating the importance of a coach's "background."

 

Even though the coaches themselves undersell it all the time.

 

So, when Bellicheat's defenses were atrocious but his offenses were great, I remember when everyone in New England called for HIS job.

 

And if the inverse is true, then please please please please stop gushing over Chan Gailey because he accomplished the sheer opposite of Marrone, gearing up an offensive game plan and fielding some of the worst defenses in franchise history.

 

And that's why Gailey got fired because he couldn't hire a good DC. Marrone couldn't hire a good OC so it should cost him his job. And the fact that defense is good now under 2 different DCs is more of an indictation of how bad Wanny truly was. This defense is loaded.

[Niagara Dude]

The bottom line is winning and this guy has not won enough to keep around.Marrone will say and use any excuse he can find to salvage his job, his background is offence and they have been brutal on this side of bowl.He was a .500 coach at a average college football program and things are about the same in the pros.We hired him because Wilson liked hiring on the cheap side, we now have a owner with the cash to spend on a quality football coach.Lets not waste another year.

[section122]

I love that Mike Smith made the list of better coaches. Nobody watches other teams play, of this I'm certain. If a Bills coach would have mismanaged the clock to the extent that Smith did yesterday, this board and all of Bills Nation would be in flames right now.

I wonder that a lot myself. So many of the mistakes that the Bills or their coaches make are routinely made around the league EVERY SINGLE SUNDAY. Of the 10 names I left on his list that I think are questionable 6 of them have a losing record, Fox got run out of CAR for being so bad but got Peyton and is now good , Garrett routinely went 8-8 even with a team projected to do much better but got brought back for a 5th (!) year (Marrone doesn't even get to finish 2), Pettine has the team at 7-4 and has benefited from playing 7 of 11 teams with losing records (the Bills have played 3 of 10), and Philbin who went 7-9, 8-8, now 6-5 which somehow makes him much better than 6-10 (1 less win) and 5-5.

[Niagara Dude]

This guy was a O-lineman, can anyone defend him and not say this is the worst portion of the Bills.Other teams get better as the season moves on and we get worse (all part of teaching process).No excuses, no sympathy either you win or get fired!

[section122]

And that's why Gailey got fired because he couldn't hire a good DC. Marrone couldn't hire a good OC so it should cost him his job. And the fact that defense is good now under 2 different DCs is more of an indictation of how bad Wanny truly was. This defense is loaded.

 

Gailey got to hire a second dc and also got 3 years. Why doesn't Marrone get the same? Especially considering his first year equaled Gailey's best year.

 

The bottom line is winning and this guy has not won enough to keep around.Marrone will say and use any excuse he can find to salvage his job, his background is offence and they have been brutal on this side of bowl.He was a .500 coach at a average college football program and things are about the same in the pros.We hired him because Wilson liked hiring on the cheap side, we now have a owner with the cash to spend on a quality football coach.Lets not waste another year.

40 posts half of which are in this thread. Obvious troll is obvious. Did Marrone sleep with your wife? No there is no way you have one.... Did Marrone run over your dog?

Edited November 24, 2014 by section122

[reddogblitz]

 

When did Bills fans become so entitled? Seriously! How can 5-5 be a disappointment for any of you? After the **** show that has been the last 14 years a team that is competitive every single week and at .500 after 11 weeks somehow isn't good enough for you? It is disgusting.

 

 

We were 5-5 in 2008 AND 2011 and then went on losing streaks to play ourselves out of it. We appear to be doing the same this year. That's why. I know those years have nothing to do with this year, but we have blown the last 2 games which is not promising.

 

 

Here is what I know. Under Marrone the Bills are competing in every game. Under Marrone the D has been top notch. Under Marrone the Bills haven't dropped a wtf game (Oak-KC, DEN-STL, etc..). Under Marrone you can see the team playing with toughness, they aren't getting beat up every week. I can't believe, after 14 years of terrible football, everyone wants to move on from the first guy who has brought them back to respectability - after less than 2 years!!!

 

Well, except for the Patsies, Chargers, and second Fish game.

 

Honestly I don't see much difference between this team and the last 10 or so. Lose a lot of close games. Strong on one side of the ball, extremely weak on the other. Players have played hard for every coach, big deal.

 

Not so sure 11-15 over the past 2 years and 5-5 is "respectable". 9-7 would be respectable.

[CountDorkula]

32nd coach when we have record better than 12 other teams? Okay. Good stuff.

Yea because that is something to be proud of. "Hey we are not last"

 

This year was said to have the most talent we have had in a long time. What gives?

[SCD]

If we finish 8-8 then we have the best coach Buffalo has seen in a decade. FIRED! Go get 'em Dougie!!