truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) just to remind all the woulda coulda should'ves had we stayed at #9...we would have drafted TE Ebron. that doesnt exactly bolster confidence in our ability to assess WR/TE talent in that draft Edited November 24, 2014 by JTSP
mannc Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 just to remind all the woulda coulda should'ves had we stayed at #9...we would have drafted TE Ebron. Please, not that argument again. "Our backup plan sucked, therefore, the trade up was the right move."
Maury Ballstein Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Please, not that argument again. "Our backup plan sucked, therefore, the trade up was the right move." So you would rather have Ebron then ? That's interesting.
mannc Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 So you would rather have Ebron then ? That's interesting. Where did you read that?
Fixxxer Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 that doesnt exactly bolster confidence in our ability to assess WR/TE talent in that draft so, Watkins isn't talented?
Wayne Cubed Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 that doesnt exactly bolster confidence in our ability to assess WR/TE talent in that draft You only know that because of hindsight. Tell us all who the next best players will be in the 2015 draft that the Bills will be missing out on.
papazoid Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 WR's get 10 touches if lucky. use first round picks on front 7 either side of ball. NY Giants (beckham) are the 14th seed in the NFC. Bills (watkins) are the 11th seed in the AFC. Tampa Bay (evans) are the 16th seed in NFC New Orleans (cooks) are 4-6 losing record Carolina (Benjamin)are the 13th seed in NFC Jax (lee) are 15th seed in AFC
Tintonfallsbillsfan Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 This is not looking like a strong draft , let's see who cleveland takes and how everyone's career plays out before making knee jerk predictions
mannc Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 WR's get 10 touches if lucky. use first round picks on front 7 either side of ball. NY Giants (beckham) are the 14th seed in the NFC. Bills (watkins) are the 11th seed in the AFC. Tampa Bay (evans) are the 16th seed in NFC New Orleans (cooks) are 4-6 losing record Carolina (Benjamin)are the 13th seed in NFC Jax (lee) are 15th seed in AFC You win. Never draft a WR in the first round. The position obviously is all but irrelevant in the NFL.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 How many games has Beckham won for the Giants? I'll wait. Football is not an individual sport. There is at least a minimum of 33 players/game that work in units of 11 in three different phases. To attribute wins to a single player based off a few plays in a game is a casual football fan rationalization as you can get.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 The problem with that kind of thinking is where does it end? If you want to say some entire drafts by Bills have been poor, should we trade our entire draft for one WR? It's also not true our firsts never work out --- Dareus is the best DT in the NFL this year, for example. Fact is 1st round picks have a lot of value, it's established within the NFL by how much you can get for trading them. Someone on here talked about this a while ago and had an interesting thought. If you could land a Dareus & Watkins every 2nd year as opposed to Gilmore, McKelvin, Spiller, Maybin, Whitner, EJ, etc... should you? The draft is kind of hit and miss. Should you target a particular star every couple of years and use the next years pick (or current year's 2nd) to go get him? It depends on the draft obviously. 2011 draft was loaded with stars and you needed a pick there but 2013 was a terrible draft and who cares if you had a 1st. If the Bills would have parted with this year's 2nd instead of next year's 1st no one would care. Is the team better off with Ebron and Kuoandjio or Watkins? That was a realistic option. Everyone on here at the time was thrilled that they kept the 2nd in such a deep draft. Once you plug in an actual player though things change. Everyone will look back at the draft about 1/2 way through the season and say take the best player picked after the Bills would have selected would have been the pick. "I can't believe that we missed out on ___." It's the Tom Brady theory.
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Football is not an individual sport. There is at least a minimum of 33 players/game that work in units of 11 in three different phases. To attribute wins to a single player based off a few plays in a game is a casual football fan rationalization as you can get. And yet, we can very easily and very obviously point to 3 different Bills' games in the 2014 season that would not be wins without Sammy Watkins. Amazing, isn't it?
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 You win. Never draft a WR in the first round. The position obviously is all but irrelevant in the NFL. I would say more like WR's are a dime a dozen in the NFL. IMO they are becoming more like the running back position. Definitely important but a position you do not need to reach for or draft really high in the 1st round. And yet, we can very easily and very obviously point to 3 different Bills' games in the 2014 season that would not be wins without Sammy Watkins. Amazing, isn't it? Not really.
papazoid Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 I would say more like WR's are a dime a dozen in the NFL. IMO they are becoming more like the running back position. Definitely important but a position you do not need to reach for or draft really high in the 1st round. exactly !!
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Not really. So then perhaps it's not altogether a "a casual football fan rationalization" to attribute a win to a single player...or maybe you were simply arguing semantics in the first place.
GunnerBill Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Someone on here talked about this a while ago and had an interesting thought. If you could land a Dareus & Watkins every 2nd year as opposed to Gilmore, McKelvin, Spiller, Maybin, Whitner, EJ, etc... should you? The draft is kind of hit and miss. Should you target a particular star every couple of years and use the next years pick (or current year's 2nd) to go get him? It depends on the draft obviously. 2011 draft was loaded with stars and you needed a pick there but 2013 was a terrible draft and who cares if you had a 1st. If the Bills would have parted with this year's 2nd instead of next year's 1st no one would care. Is the team better off with Ebron and Kuoandjio or Watkins? That was a realistic option. Everyone on here at the time was thrilled that they kept the 2nd in such a deep draft. Once you plug in an actual player though things change. Everyone will look back at the draft about 1/2 way through the season and say take the best player picked after the Bills would have selected would have been the pick. "I can't believe that we missed out on ___." It's the Tom Brady theory. It is an interesting question, however, in order to make giving first rounders like Gilmore, McKelvin and Spiller up you better be better at drafting in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th (Whitner was the classic "draft for need" and Maybin just a bust). Because having 3 or 4 stars on your roster from alternate year's first round picks is great, but if the rest of your roster is Koundjios and TJ Grahams then you ain't going to be winning many games.
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 exactly !! Again, why does Seattle trade 1st, 4th, and 7th round picks for Percy Harvin, who comes back in the playoffs to help them win a Superbowl? Why do they then follow up that trade by drafting yet another WR with their first pick in the 2014 draft? WRs aren't a dime a dozen; they are, however, superseded by quality QB play. If one wants to claim that getting a QB is more important than a WR, fine, I can buy that. However, one needs to look no further than Brady without Welker/Gronk to see how not having a quality No. 1 target affects the passing game.
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) And yet, we can very easily and very obviously point to 3 different Bills' games in the 2014 season that would not be wins without Sammy Watkins. Amazing, isn't it? silly comment if the discussion is should we have taken A instead of B, when we don't know what contribution A would have made. How do you know we wouldnt have won more games with Beckham, for example? It's also not an apples to apples comparison because the Bills have a much better defense than Giants, and have been in a lot more close games Edited November 24, 2014 by JTSP
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) So then perhaps it's not altogether a "a casual football fan rationalization" to attribute a win to a single player...or maybe you were simply arguing semantics in the first place. It sure is a casual fan rationalization, because an individual player can't "win" a football game. Football isn't broken down that simple except to a casual eye. There are hundreds of variables in a single outcome of a game. The single player argument doesn't exist. Edited November 24, 2014 by BuffaloBillsForever
mannc Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 I would say more like WR's are a dime a dozen in the NFL. IMO they are becoming more like the running back position. Definitely important but a position you do not need to reach for or draft really high in the 1st round. That is an interesting point, but I maintain that a true game beaking WR is incredibly valuable because the defense has to account for him on every play, which opens up the field for other players. It is certainly true that very good ones can be found outside the first round, but that is true of every position, isn't it?
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