YoloinOhio Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 I get that the coach/GM tandem thought it was make or break and swung for the fences but I didn't like the trade. I like Sammy, providing we don't trade him away/lose him he will be a great Bill for years to come. However, i would rather we had OB or Benjamin and our 1st rd pick next year. Actually, I wish we would have taken an o lineman, a QUALITY o lineman. No likey Seantrel? He has started every game at RT.
BillsVet Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 I do think trading up at that price can be justified, even for a WR, but not in the most loaded draft for receivers in NFL history, and not when the team has no quarterback or line (or coaches who can help make up the difference instead of adding to it). The original poster is correct: the Bills messed up. They should have traded DOWN, picked up Beckam and picked up a quality guard. Instead, Whaley got cute. He fell in love with Watkins like the most sophomoric fantasy footballer and traded away a goldmine on the gamble that E.J. Manuel, Doug Marrone and one of the worst lines in the history of football would take us to the playoffs. Here's the thing: Watkins is the real deal, and every time he shows it fans will applaud Whaley. But Beckam and Benjamin are also studs, and we could have had one of them AND our fourth round pick AND our first round next year. (Or Evans at a much less steep price.) So don't buy the line that if Watkins is great Whaley was right. He wasn't right. He was wrong. Even a HOF career from Watkins won't justify this blunder. The question should be, how much better is Watkins than those other WR's who are playing well from the 2014 draft? We're nowhere close to making that conclusion, but from a team-building perspective trading a 1st and 4th in 2014 amid this WR class isn't a slam dunk move. The bigger issue is why the Bills would invest so much in the WR position (Watkins trade, Woods in the 2nd/2013, trading for Mike Williams) without having a decent QB on the roster. Because those 3 guys were acquired before Orton and when they figured Manuel would be OK in 2014.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Here is the bottom line... Could we have taken Evans...yes, we definitely could have, but it still would have cost us a first round pick. Could we have taken Odell, sure, and we keep our first...however, Odell is small, already been hurt, and his ceiling is probably D Jax which isn't great but not bad. Watkins however is going to be special and will have a better career than an undersized WR. Watkins > Odell. I don't care what any delusional Bills fan says, Orton sucks and its not even a debate. His "stats" are padded by the Jets game in which the D was more responsible for the results than him. He has 6 TDs and 5 Turnovers in the other 5 games and this team is statistically worse in every relevant offensive category, including YPG, PPG, and Red Zone % with him under center compared to EJ, and compared to EJ, Thad and Tuel medley last year. Eli is a 2 time SB champ...yes he turns the ball over, but he also moves the ball a lot. He is substantially better than Orton and its not even open for debate. You put Watkins in NY this year and he probably is top 10 and top 5 in most receiving categories. Odell in Buffalo this year would be a blip on the radar. He would probably be the 3rd WR behind Woods and Williams right now. Watkins > Evans. Now this is a little different. They have 2 totally different skill sets at WR and I grade them quite a bit closer. I told everyone pre draft that Manziel was like Dante Culpepper when he was throwing to Moss. Manziel looked better than he was because he could just chuck the ball up to a huge guy who went out and got it in Evans. Evans was the real talent there, not Manziel. That being said, I do feel Watkins has more to offer all around as he is more explosive, better hands and a better route runner, however the gap is a lot closer. Overall, I do feel Watkins will have the best career and is still the right choice. Evans would also take a first round pick to have taken, so its them straight up and I would still choose Watkins. Odell wouldnt have cost us a first round pick but I don't think he will be nearly as good as Evans or Watkins. And as far as this draft goes...people need to stop with the broken record crying about how we can't get a QB this year without the first round pick. We were NEVER going to get a top prospect as our team was never going to finish in the top 5 draft slots or even top 10. Plenty of really good QBs have come from the 2nd and 3rd rounds in recent years. We also still have potential in EJ or can get a guy in FA like Hoyer.
DrDawkinstein Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 I get that the coach/GM tandem thought it was make or break and swung for the fences but I didn't like the trade. I like Sammy, providing we don't trade him away/lose him he will be a great Bill for years to come. However, i would rather we had OB or Benjamin and our 1st rd pick next year. Actually, I wish we would have taken an o lineman, a QUALITY o lineman. I'll ask this again... Who? Which OL did you want to take in the 1st last year? And who do you want to draft in the mid-1st round this year?
YoloinOhio Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Here is the bottom line... Could we have taken Evans...yes, we definitely could have, but it still would have cost us a first round pick. Could we have taken Odell, sure, and we keep our first...however, Odell is small, already been hurt, and his ceiling is probably D Jax which isn't great but not bad. Watkins however is going to be special and will have a better career than an undersized WR. Watkins > Odell. I don't care what any delusional Bills fan says, Orton sucks and its not even a debate. His "stats" are padded by the Jets game in which the D was more responsible for the results than him. He has 6 TDs and 5 Turnovers in the other 5 games and this team is statistically worse in every relevant offensive category, including YPG, PPG, and Red Zone % with him under center compared to EJ, and compared to EJ, Thad and Tuel medley last year. Eli is a 2 time SB champ...yes he turns the ball over, but he also moves the ball a lot. He is substantially better than Orton and its not even open for debate. You put Watkins in NY this year and he probably is top 10 and top 5 in most receiving categories. Odell in Buffalo this year would be a blip on the radar. He would probably be the 3rd WR behind Woods and Williams right now. Watkins > Evans. Now this is a little different. They have 2 totally different skill sets at WR and I grade them quite a bit closer. I told everyone pre draft that Manziel was like Dante Culpepper when he was throwing to Moss. Manziel looked better than he was because he could just chuck the ball up to a huge guy who went out and got it in Evans. Evans was the real talent there, not Manziel. That being said, I do feel Watkins has more to offer all around as he is more explosive, better hands and a better route runner, however the gap is a lot closer. Overall, I do feel Watkins will have the best career and is still the right choice. Evans would also take a first round pick to have taken, so its them straight up and I would still choose Watkins. Odell wouldnt have cost us a first round pick but I don't think he will be nearly as good as Evans or Watkins. And as far as this draft goes...people need to stop with the broken record crying about how we can't get a QB this year without the first round pick. We were NEVER going to get a top prospect as our team was never going to finish in the top 5 draft slots or even top 10. Plenty of really good QBs have come from the 2nd and 3rd rounds in recent years. We also still have potential in EJ or can get a guy in FA like Hoyer. Yeah, I don't see much debate at this point over who is better going back to pre-draft analysis by scouts on NFL.com Beckham - 1st rd worthy WR. From his scouting report: "Talented, competitive, productive, inconsistent college split end who projects as a big-play receiver in the pros." Evans - top 10 worthy WR: From his scouting report: "He's a big, physical, strong-handed, West Coast possession receiver with playmaking ability who projects as a No. 2 in the pros" Watkins - one of 4 elite talent prospects in entire draft. From his scouting report - "A legitimate No. 1-caliber receiver" Having watched all 3, I don't see much different than what was projected. I would take Watkins every time and fill our 2015 1st rd need in FA. Especially if it is a G or TE, who are going to contribute more immediately as a veteran if you pony up cash for a good one like I'm sure Pegula is itching to do. Edited November 23, 2014 by YoloinOhio
thewildrabbit Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 While we know that Watkins was rated as the highest graded player on the Buffalo Bills draft board. The real question is, are you 100% certain that you have a franchise QB in EJ, and if not it makes absolutely no sense to use two future picks, and next years #1 if you are not 100% certain. Then bringing in Kyle Orton was a curious even if you consider EJ the affirmed franchise QB. Also, was the guy worth three players? A 2014 1st rounder, 2015 first & fourth rounders? I see great talent in Sammy Watkins, but so far I don't see him being three players better then the other WR's in the draft. Plus, it looks to me like the Bills are still searching for that elusive "franchise" QB. This entire issue will come more and more under great debate as the teams W/L record goes south. Then it also has consequence as we watch the rest of the WR's do so well. I can only imagine this topic becoming a growing tsunami as we approach the end of the season, and the draft.
Beerball Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 I love the guy and hope that he's a fixture here for his entire career, but...the pick was made out of desperation. Whaley felt (and he's admitted) that the focus had to be win now. Watkins gave them the best chance at this. Unfortunately EJ wasn't able to take advantage of Sammy's talents. What you are left with is another lost season and no #1 pick next year. Moves made out of desperation (EJ, Watkins) rarely work out.(IMO)
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Overreacting to a draft that was 6 months ago is always smart. Remember all those Dareus is a bust threads? I love the guy and hope that he's a fixture here for his entire career, but...the pick was made out of desperation. Whaley felt (and he's admitted) that the focus had to be win now. Watkins gave them the best chance at this. Unfortunately EJ wasn't able to take advantage of Sammy's talents. What you are left with is another lost season and no #1 pick next year. Moves made out of desperation (EJ, Watkins) rarely work out.(IMO) EJ got 4 games with the guy and one was 100 yards.
Beerball Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 EJ got 4 games with the guy and one was 100 yards. How's the win now, playoffs or bust 2014 thing working?
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 How's the win now, playoffs or bust 2014 thing working? Well if one good thing is going to come out of this season, we are developing Kyle Orton. I was big Mike Evans fan but I think Watkins is going to be a very good player. But it's wrong to overreact to one season of a plauer's career, especially because Watkins was a huge reason in 3 wins.
Beerball Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Well if one good thing is going to come out of this season, we are developing Kyle Orton. I was big Mike Evans fan but I think Watkins is going to be a very good player. But it's wrong to overreact to one season of a plauer's career, especially because Watkins was a huge reason in 3 wins. Did you even bother to read my first post in this thread?
Niagara Dude Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 I think you are 100% correct, not saying he is better then Sammy but when you give up a extra number pick>Thank is the big difference!
Solomon Grundy Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Okay, we should've taken Beckham, kept our draft pick and should choose who with the pick?
Bob Malooga Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Wide open, in the middle of the field...OBJ last week had a better catch, tip-toeing the sidelines. However, I would have been pissed if they drafted OBJ over Kelvin Benjamin.
Wayne Cubed Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 While we know that Watkins was rated as the highest graded player on the Buffalo Bills draft board. The real question is, are you 100% certain that you have a franchise QB in EJ, and if not it makes absolutely no sense to use two future picks, and next years #1 if you are not 100% certain. Then bringing in Kyle Orton was a curious even if you consider EJ the affirmed franchise QB. Also, was the guy worth three players? A 2014 1st rounder, 2015 first & fourth rounders? I see great talent in Sammy Watkins, but so far I don't see him being three players better then the other WR's in the draft. Plus, it looks to me like the Bills are still searching for that elusive "franchise" QB. This entire issue will come more and more under great debate as the teams W/L record goes south. Then it also has consequence as we watch the rest of the WR's do so well. I can only imagine this topic becoming a growing tsunami as we approach the end of the season, and the draft. Three players? What are you on? The trade for Watkins is for 2 players. You can't count the #10 pick this year as giving up a player. The Bills still picked a player. Watkins.You can compare him to who they would have picked at 10, which was apparently Ebron. The Bills essentially choose Watkins OVER Ebron. And what does having a franchise QB have to do with acquiring elite talent? So the Bills should never get elite talent because they don't have a franchise QB? What has AJ Green done for Dalton? What has Megatron done for Stafford? Franchise QBs don't grow on trees, there were arguably none to pick from for the Bills. There were none in FA. So the only way to improve the offense and a position that the Bills were severely lacking in was go get Watkins. Could you make an argument for Evans? Sure. But they would have had to trade picks to get him. Beckham was never going to be the pick and if he was he misses the first 4 games and the Bills possibly loose at Chicago.
mountainwampus Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 It was well known that this last draft was stocked with great WRs. Just as it was well known that 2013 was one of the weakest classes for QBs. Bills have a knack for buying high, selling low, and pulling the trigger at the worst possible times.
Lofton80 Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 I love the Watkins pick, he is an incredible talent. With 10 days off to help him heal he will be dominant Monday night. Beckham is a smaller receiver. I recall this board was against smaller receivers.
jumbalaya Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 To this point Beckham, Evans, Benjamin, and Bryant, are all the equal of Sammy. Only time will tell if Sammy clearly exceeds any or all of them.
truth on hold Posted November 23, 2014 Author Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Wide open, in the middle of the field...OBJ last week had a better catch, tip-toeing the sidelines. However, I would have been pissed if they drafted OBJ over Kelvin Benjamin. yeap, Sammy was getting space before but now that defenses have film on him he's not getting that much room. Thats always the way it is in the NFL. After theyve made adjustments and coverage is tight is when you really find out how good you are. And Beckham has the leaping ability to win those tight matchups Edited November 23, 2014 by JTSP
Maury Ballstein Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Or he's playing through injuries that are well known.
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