K-9 Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 I gotta question Billick's acumen when he rates the worst route runner of the bunch as the top overall wideout selected. That is simply ignorant and gives the impression that Billick is merely basing his opinion on Evans' big yardage day against the 'Skins. You'd think he knows better. GO BILLS!!!
thewildrabbit Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Your opinion is respected as much as anyone on the topic IMO. You didn't want him but acknowledged him as a dynamic player. FWIW, you have been fair throughout. I still believe that Sammy will be a unique player but at least you aren't MMQBing the topic. Kudos to you Thanks Kirby. The Bills FO made the trade, and now we all want to see him excel. Nobody wants to see Sammy be the offensive rookie or the year more then I do. Its frustrating to see the Bills offense only throwing to him 3-5 times a game, and its going to only get tougher this week going up against Cleveland's CB Joe Haden. The last 4 games 3 rec, 4 rec, 3, rec, 3 rec. I'd know I'd like to see him get at least 10 targets a game. After all he is the best offensive weapon on the team. BTW, Sammy first injured his groin leading up to that first Jets game where he had 3 catches for 157 yards 1 TD. I don't know how much the injury is holding him back or if the coaches are doing that, as he only had 2 catches against SD, 4 catches against Houston, 2 catches against NE.
Andrew Son Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 I've watched his entire career at Clemson at watched him In person at training camp. I know what a healthy Sammy Watkins looks like. He is not playing at 100%.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Thanks Kirby. The Bills FO made the trade, and now we all want to see him excel. Nobody wants to see Sammy be the offensive rookie or the year more then I do. Its frustrating to see the Bills offense only throwing to him 3-5 times a game, and its going to only get tougher this week going up against Cleveland's CB Joe Haden. The last 4 games 3 rec, 4 rec, 3, rec, 3 rec. I'd know I'd like to see him get at least 10 targets a game. After all he is the best offensive weapon on the team. BTW, Sammy first injured his groin leading up to that first Jets game where he had 3 catches for 157 yards 1 TD. I don't know how much the injury is holding him back or if the coaches are doing that, as he only had 2 catches against SD, 4 catches against Houston, 2 catches against NE. I think that it's a combination. He's clearly beat up and they clearly don't target him like other teams target their top WRs. Look at the catches and targets this week for AJ Green, Josh Gordon, Julian Edelman and OBJ. Those teams all make it a point to make sure that those guys are getting opportunities to make plays. I feel like the Bills subscribe more to a "take what they are giving you" philosophy. There is something in the middle that is the reality. The reason that teams will give you Lee Smith, Chandler, Gragg and Hogan is because if that if those guys are getting a high percentage of the balls the big plays will be mitigated. The defense has it under control. Think about how much better you will feel next week if Miles Austin has 12 targets and Josh Gordon 4? With that being said, the Jets didn't just roll coverage to Sammy yesterday, they doubled him. It helped open things up elsewhere. I'd like to see him get healthy and have more opportunities to make plays but I'm not going to complain about a 35 point win. He has been reliable when needed in close games this year (Minnesota & Detroit specifically).
Dibs Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Yea because picking OL in the top 10 has yielded tons of Super Bowls. In the past 15 years at total of 1 OL picked in the top 10 has contributed to a Super Bowl and only 1 team that picked an OL in the top 10 has even been to the Super Bowl. Here is the list of OLmen that were drafted in the top 10 that contributed to a superbowl appearance for their drafting teams in the last 15 SBs: Ogden BALT (W) Jones SEA (L) Pace STL (W & L) Brown ARI (L) Okung SEA (W) I'm not sure of what value this provides as teams that draft in the top 10 are usually bad teams.....and teams that make the SB are usually good teams.....and teams that go from one to the other usually have found their Franchise QB. For interest sake, here are the WRs (same criterea as above): Crabtree SF (L) Fitzgerald ARI (L) Holt STL (W &L) Hilliard NYG (L) Glenn NE (W)
thewildrabbit Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 I think that it's a combination. He's clearly beat up and they clearly don't target him like other teams target their top WRs. Look at the catches and targets this week for AJ Green, Josh Gordon, Julian Edelman and OBJ. Those teams all make it a point to make sure that those guys are getting opportunities to make plays. I feel like the Bills subscribe more to a "take what they are giving you" philosophy. There is something in the middle that is the reality. The reason that teams will give you Lee Smith, Chandler, Gragg and Hogan is because if that if those guys are getting a high percentage of the balls the big plays will be mitigated. The defense has it under control. Think about how much better you will feel next week if Miles Austin has 12 targets and Josh Gordon 4? With that being said, the Jets didn't just roll coverage to Sammy yesterday, they doubled him. It helped open things up elsewhere. I'd like to see him get healthy and have more opportunities to make plays but I'm not going to complain about a 35 point win. He has been reliable when needed in close games this year (Minnesota & Detroit specifically). I feel like the current offensive coaches really don't have the first clue on how to beat the better teams. The better offensive teams in the league dictate to their opponents. Against the #1 pass defense in the league in the KC Chiefs the Bills throw 48 times, and rush only 22 times while having a 5.0 YPC average. It just makes no sense to game plan like that, or try and force the weakest part of the team into the opponents strongest area. 13 points of offense is simply not acceptable, even against a good team. Then against Miami with the #2 pass defense in the league the Bills throw 39 times while rushing only 19 times. Again only 9 points on offense is not acceptable. The Bills put up 38 points on one of the worst teams in the league, a team that clearly doesn't have a viable NFL starting QB. The Jets didn't have more then 50 passing yards in the first half. I'm not thinking that the scoring drought is over now because the Jets suck so badly. Out of 10 offensive drives against the Jets the Bills had 4 drives that went for more then 45 yards, 3 TD's and a FG. While better then that first game, they still had drives of 5 yards, 6 yards, 36 yards, 16 yards, 4 yards, -2 yards. While I'm happy the Bills pounded a hated division rival, and made their HC look out coached by Schwartz. Its tough for me to feel euphoric about a win against a team as bad as the Jets. We will see how the rest of the season plays out against four teams with winning records vs one more bad team. I don't feel Sammy will ever see his full potential this season with these offensive coaches. A shame, because I was hoping he would get RotY. The Bills are fielding a championship defense, and a JV college offense.
FireChan Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) I feel like the current offensive coaches really don't have the first clue on how to beat the better teams. The better offensive teams in the league dictate to their opponents. Against the #1 pass defense in the league in the KC Chiefs the Bills throw 48 times, and rush only 22 times while having a 5.0 YPC average. It just makes no sense to game plan like that, or try and force the weakest part of the team into the opponents strongest area. 13 points of offense is simply not acceptable, even against a good team. Then against Miami with the #2 pass defense in the league the Bills throw 39 times while rushing only 19 times. Again only 9 points on offense is not acceptable. The Bills put up 38 points on one of the worst teams in the league, a team that clearly doesn't have a viable NFL starting QB. The Jets didn't have more then 50 passing yards in the first half. I'm not thinking that the scoring drought is over now because the Jets suck so badly. Out of 10 offensive drives against the Jets the Bills had 4 drives that went for more then 45 yards, 3 TD's and a FG. While better then that first game, they still had drives of 5 yards, 6 yards, 36 yards, 16 yards, 4 yards, -2 yards. While I'm happy the Bills pounded a hated division rival, and made their HC look out coached by Schwartz. Its tough for me to feel euphoric about a win against a team as bad as the Jets. We will see how the rest of the season plays out against four teams with winning records vs one more bad team. I don't feel Sammy will ever see his full potential this season with these offensive coaches. A shame, because I was hoping he would get RotY. The Bills are fielding a championship defense, and a JV college offense. You realize you're ignoring much of the context in the KC and Dolphins game? Like how we started throwing the ball a lot once we got down and the clock started running out, like every team in the NFL does. I know shouting out "48 passes!" is hard to resist, but try to be a little fair. You don't keep a run:pass ratio of 1 when you're down 12 with 5 minutes left in the 4th. I know you know that. Edited November 26, 2014 by FireChan
bbb Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Ranking the rookie receivers Excellent. Well at least we got the third best receiver at pick 4 and no pick next year.
Wayne Cubed Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Here is the list of OLmen that were drafted in the top 10 that contributed to a superbowl appearance for their drafting teams in the last 15 SBs: Ogden BALT (W) Jones SEA (L) Pace STL (W & L) Brown ARI (L) Okung SEA (W) I'm not sure of what value this provides as teams that draft in the top 10 are usually bad teams.....and teams that make the SB are usually good teams.....and teams that go from one to the other usually have found their Franchise QB. For interest sake, here are the WRs (same criterea as above): Crabtree SF (L) Fitzgerald ARI (L) Holt STL (W &L) Hilliard NYG (L) Glenn NE (W) The bold was really the point of my post. I only had Okung as winning the SB being drafted in the top 10 the past 15 years. A previous poster, which I responded to, had said that you don't draft WR's in the top 10 because they don't win Championships. My point was that no matter what position you pick in the top 10 you are picking there for a reason. Probably because you lack talent. So acquiring and identifying elite talent, no matter what the position, should be the priority. A team can't keep picking certain positions in the top 10, if they are constantly picking there, just because you think they are more important. You could be passing up elite talent at other positions. Look at the elite QB's in the NFL: Peyton Manning Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers Drew Bree's One of them was picked in the top 10 and he's not even on the team that drafted him. The draft in my mine has been and always will be about identifying talent no matter where they are picked.
thewildrabbit Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) I think that it's a combination. He's clearly beat up and they clearly don't target him like other teams target their top WRs. Look at the catches and targets this week for AJ Green, Josh Gordon, Julian Edelman and OBJ. Those teams all make it a point to make sure that those guys are getting opportunities to make plays. I feel like the Bills subscribe more to a "take what they are giving you" philosophy. There is something in the middle that is the reality. The reason that teams will give you Lee Smith, Chandler, Gragg and Hogan is because if that if those guys are getting a high percentage of the balls the big plays will be mitigated. The defense has it under control. Think about how much better you will feel next week if Miles Austin has 12 targets and Josh Gordon 4? With that being said, the Jets didn't just roll coverage to Sammy yesterday, they doubled him. It helped open things up elsewhere. I'd like to see him get healthy and have more opportunities to make plays but I'm not going to complain about a 35 point win. He has been reliable when needed in close games this year (Minnesota & Detroit specifically). In regards to the OP's topic. The Bills could have drafted any one of the #1 picks at WR Beckham, Benjamin and used him as a decoy to get the scrub receivers open. The entire intent to trade up and give up two 2015 picks to draft an explosive playmaker like Watkins should be to use him often every game! They even stated they used him as a decoy against the Patriots Revis Island. Makes no sense to me. Edited November 26, 2014 by FeartheLosing
thewildrabbit Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 You realize you're ignoring much of the context in the KC and Dolphins game? Like how we started throwing the ball a lot once we got down and the clock started running out, like every team in the NFL does. I know shouting out "48 passes!" is hard to resist, but try to be a little fair. You don't keep a run:pass ratio of 1 when you're down 12 with 5 minutes left in the 4th. I know you know that. Lets talk about the 48 passes game. The Bills lost that game 13-17, and were in the lead until the 4th quarter. The simple fact is they came out passing against the Chiefs #1 pass defense in the league. The idea behind pounding the rock is to control the LoS, and clock. Thus wearing down the opposing defense while keeping your own defense fresh, and on the bench. I think its unbelievably moronic to come out passing against the #1 ranked pass defense, and then not to run more when you see your team is gashing the opponent 5.0 yards per carry, per rush. Again, against the Dolphins the Bills had the lead going into the second half of the game, and even into the third quarter they were up 9-3. They couldn't convert those three drives into the Dolphins redzone into TD's and settled for FG's. The Bills were in the shotgun almost the entire game both games, and didn't try to establish play action that would greatly help in running the ball. This against the Miami #2 pass defense in the league. Like I've said before. Its almost like the Bills OC is taking bribes to throw games by forcing his offense into the opponents strengths or he is purposely trying to lose games so they fire Marrone, so he can be the HC. I find it almost unbelievably stupid that a sane person would try to play right into an opponents strengths, and he has been doing this since the Chargers game in week 3. A little fair? I'm being a little fair in not calling the man every derogatory name I can think of, and because he appears to be so very simple minded, I resist.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 I feel like the current offensive coaches really don't have the first clue on how to beat the better teams. The better offensive teams in the league dictate to their opponents. Against the #1 pass defense in the league in the KC Chiefs the Bills throw 48 times, and rush only 22 times while having a 5.0 YPC average. It just makes no sense to game plan like that, or try and force the weakest part of the team into the opponents strongest area. 13 points of offense is simply not acceptable, even against a good team. Then against Miami with the #2 pass defense in the league the Bills throw 39 times while rushing only 19 times. Again only 9 points on offense is not acceptable. The Bills put up 38 points on one of the worst teams in the league, a team that clearly doesn't have a viable NFL starting QB. The Jets didn't have more then 50 passing yards in the first half. I'm not thinking that the scoring drought is over now because the Jets suck so badly. Out of 10 offensive drives against the Jets the Bills had 4 drives that went for more then 45 yards, 3 TD's and a FG. While better then that first game, they still had drives of 5 yards, 6 yards, 36 yards, 16 yards, 4 yards, -2 yards. While I'm happy the Bills pounded a hated division rival, and made their HC look out coached by Schwartz. Its tough for me to feel euphoric about a win against a team as bad as the Jets. We will see how the rest of the season plays out against four teams with winning records vs one more bad team. I don't feel Sammy will ever see his full potential this season with these offensive coaches. A shame, because I was hoping he would get RotY. The Bills are fielding a championship defense, and a JV college offense. Agree 100% It can be frustrating watching how some of these teams dictate what they want to do instead of react to what the other team is making them do. The Bills often dictate on defense though.
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