truth on hold Posted November 23, 2014 Author Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) This catch is why Watkins was drafted. because the throw is a typical pass by __________. _______________ Playing QB for the Bills. Big deal if he is not a stat leader through 10 games in a rookie season. I'll give the kid a few more years, and not base woulda, coulda, shoulda on a few games in a rookie season. I think there's some truth in this .... he was drafted with the crappy QB in mind. As in we'll throw some slop around there and this guy has a decent chance of getting it. However that's not how the top passing games function. That leaping catch made by Beckham was thrown in the precise spot where the DB can't get it but the WR still has a chance. And isn't building around sub-standard QBs a flawed approach in a QB driven league? Which again supports Beckham as the better pick because his skill set is more aligned with the big time offense. Edited November 23, 2014 by JTSP
finn Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 I do think trading up at that price can be justified, even for a WR, but not in the most loaded draft for receivers in NFL history, and not when the team has no quarterback or line (or coaches who can help make up the difference instead of adding to it). The original poster is correct: the Bills messed up. They should have traded DOWN, picked up Beckam and picked up a quality guard. Instead, Whaley got cute. He fell in love with Watkins like the most sophomoric fantasy footballer and traded away a goldmine on the gamble that E.J. Manuel, Doug Marrone and one of the worst lines in the history of football would take us to the playoffs. Here's the thing: Watkins is the real deal, and every time he shows it fans will applaud Whaley. But Beckam and Benjamin are also studs, and we could have had one of them AND our fourth round pick AND our first round next year. (Or Evans at a much less steep price.) So don't buy the line that if Watkins is great Whaley was right. He wasn't right. He was wrong. Even a HOF career from Watkins won't justify this blunder.
Charles Romes Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 And Evans is catching balls from Josh McCown and Mike Glennon - clearly the creme de la creme of QB talent. More catches, more TDs, more YPC, 13 fewer targets. With Vincent Jackson on the other side. Sammy has a converted lacrosse player and another guy regressing right out of the league.
GunnerBill Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 I think there's some truth in this .... he was drafted with the crappy QB in mind. As in we'll throw some slop around there and this guy has a decent chance of getting it. However that's not how the top passing games function. That leaping catch made by Beckham was thrown in the precise spot where the DB can't get it but the WR still has a chance. And isn't building around sub-standard QBs a flawed approach in a QB driven league? Which again supports Beckham as the better pick because his skill set is more aligned with the big time offense. So Beckham was a better pick because his team had a better Quarterback and a better offensive scheme? That seems to be what you are saying. So if our QB is crap and our OC is crap why did we pick a wide receiver? Maybe your title should be "it's now clear we should have taken Anthony Barr?"
truth on hold Posted November 23, 2014 Author Posted November 23, 2014 So Beckham was a better pick because his team had a better Quarterback and a better offensive scheme? That seems to be what you are saying. So if our QB is crap and our OC is crap why did we pick a wide receiver? Maybe your title should be "it's now clear we should have taken Anthony Barr?" No, my point is that he was taken as the best NFL-prospect to go with a real NFL QB, whether that QB was on the roster or not. Which is the right way to go about it. Its chicken or egg do you get the QB or WRs first. The right answer there is you take what's best available. And where they were hard to argue with beckham as the call
Nanker Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 I've seen Beckham drop a bunch of passes this year.
OCinBuffalo Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) I was a bit of a doubter at the time of the trade, but Sammy has shown me enough so far for me to put my hands up and say I think I was wrong. And you've just earned respect here. Too bad so many unfortunate posters seem to require a whipping before they can be objective and/or admit that their "thought process" isn't theirs at all, as it comes directly from Bulldog. Hey, I started a thread on this topic weeks ago, and there was all sorts of "why do you have to be so sardonic" posts? (Btw, haven't heard a peep from WGR since = results). This thread is precisely why. Eradication of this Bulldog canard is the goal. I liked Mike Evans a lot though.... I maintain that without him Johnny Football is a 2nd rounder at best.... and Beckham and Cooks and Benjamin are all fine players. Ultimately the story will be written in the next couple of years as others have said. Of course. However, we've already seen enough from Sammy to fully understand why the move was made. That is unless "we" includes unmitigated morons/people who attempt to resolve their unhappiness with their life by transferring their problems onto the Bills. These folks are the fan equivalent of abusive husbands. Again, the Bills are not their problem. As for should have kept our 2015 first rounder..... if the argument is Quarterback I'll leave OC to dismiss that as he has above. Oh, don't you worry, I have tons of dismiss. I will never run out. I own a factory. Some of it is sitting right next to the three bottles of Sapphire I'm bringing for the Detroit Exodus(F no, I ain't driving), and the 4 extra original tickets I have collected, which I will expend on those I deem worthy to accompany us.(The current thinking is to engage hipster chicks = die their hair Bills colors, wear what we give them, bring our inappropriate signs and display them on demand = ticket. We'll see. We don't want to exchange 3 hours of hell for 10 minutes of hilarious.) I may have to use some of my dismiss on the still butthurt, "Jim Schwartz was carried off your field", Lions fans....but I am going to do everything I can to avoid that. After all, dismiss is valuable, especially on this board lately. I do think trading up at that price can be justified, even for a WR, but not in the most loaded draft for receivers in NFL history, and not when the team has no quarterback or line (or coaches who can help make up the difference instead of adding to it). The original poster is correct: the Bills messed up. They should have traded DOWN, picked up Beckam and picked up a quality guard. Instead, Whaley got cute. He fell in love with Watkins like the most sophomoric fantasy footballer and traded away a goldmine on the gamble that E.J. Manuel, Doug Marrone and one of the worst lines in the history of football would take us to the playoffs. Here's the thing: Watkins is the real deal, and every time he shows it fans will applaud Whaley. But Beckam and Benjamin are also studs, and we could have had one of them AND our fourth round pick AND our first round next year. (Or Evans at a much less steep price.) So don't buy the line that if Watkins is great Whaley was right. He wasn't right. He was wrong. Even a HOF career from Watkins won't justify this blunder. Hey, if you want to argue against Watkins solely on the merits of Watkins...even though you probably want to wait until after next year at least? No one's stopping you. But...keep in mind, barring something bizzarre, I'll be here, 3 years from now, with my axe. The good news is: I keep it sharp, so, it'll be over before you feel a thing. Let's just keep the "could've drafted a QB" canard where it belongs: in the same dumpster fire where Mike Schopp's understanding of analytics(example: Sabres team shot % is an...individul stat ) resides. Edited November 23, 2014 by OCinBuffalo
thebandit27 Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Watkins' play has DIRECTLY lead to 3 wins that the team would not otherwise have in 2014. Feel free to show me the games that Beckham dominated to that degree--I'd also like to see his NFL game-winning catch log. I've seen two so far from Sammy. Beckham is a future #1 WR in this league; Sammy is a budding superstar.
GunnerBill Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Of course. However, we've already seen enough from Sammy to fully understand why the move was made. That is unless "we" includes unmitigated morons/people who attempt to resolve their unhappiness with their life by transferring their problems onto the Bills. These folks are the fan equivalent of abusive husbands. Yep. That is exactly my position. I wanted Evans before the draft, I was sceptical about trading up and yet I can now sit back even with all the other rookie wideouts playing well and say "the move made a lot of sense." If people want to look for problems with this football team there are plenty more glaring ones than the drafting of Sammy Watkins. EDIT: Of course as it happens Evans wouldn't have made it to us anyway, further proving Whaley was right and I wasn't. Edited November 23, 2014 by GunnerBill
26CornerBlitz Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Bills GM says trade trade still worth it Edited November 23, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
thebandit27 Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Let's also remember that Beckham wouldn't have played for this team until week 4 at the earliest, since he was out with an injury, so forget about getting any production from him in the wins over Chicago or Miami, or the losses against Houston and San Diego.
truth on hold Posted November 23, 2014 Author Posted November 23, 2014 Bills GM says trade trade still worth it Not surprised the guy with his nuts on the line if it doesn't work out says he'd still do the trade.... be shocked if he said otherwise. Heck colts are still saying they trade their first for Trent richardson ... lol. And his standard that sammy won 3 games for them as a test is silly. Most bills wins were close games so a play or two from a lot of different players can be said to be the difference. How about dareus and his sacks instead ? Also he has no idea how wed have done with Beckham instead.
Andrew Son Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Clearly... LOL. Sammy will be by far the best WR to come out of this class. Just wait till he's playing without broken ribs and an injured groin.
mrags Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Watkins' play has DIRECTLY lead to 3 wins that the team would not otherwise have in 2014. Feel free to show me the games that Beckham dominated to that degree--I'd also like to see his NFL game-winning catch log. I've seen two so far from Sammy. Beckham is a future #1 WR in this league; Sammy is a budding superstar. this is where I'm at. Anyone that wants to argue about if the trade was a good deal or not should pay attention to this. Halfway through his rookie season, Sammy is single handedly responsible for 3 of our 5 wins. That to me says elite and it was a good deal. Regardless of one of the other WRs could make those plays or not. It was good then and it's good now.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 "Not to give any particulars, there wasn’t that much of a difference." (May 8th, 2014) Doug Whaley when asked what was the biggest difference between Watkins and the next receiver on the board.
OCinBuffalo Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Heck colts are still saying they trade their first for Trent richardson ... lol. The difference is: nobody believes the Colts. Speaking of the Colts, I believe we have an elite DE on our team that we got for a JAG MLB. But yeah, let's use the Colts as an example...of something...not sure what.... Like I said elsewhere: apparently it's free association day at TSW! EDIT: While we're at it, let's use the RG3-->Rams Draft Picks-->Tavon Austin/JAG Safety-->The Bills get EJ, Kiko, Goodwin, and Gragg....as an example of why Whaley is a bad GM. I mean, if we just keep throwing out random, irrelevant arguments, sooner or later something's got to stick, right? Yeah..the Austin move had the same outcome as the Watkins move, because Austin = Watkins because...both are WRs!. Edited November 23, 2014 by OCinBuffalo
Boatdrinks Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 This is a nonsensical debate because we are talking about two good players. The Bills won't lose games because they have Watkins on their roster, and he's already directly gotten them wins. No player ( except perhaps a Luck type QB) will be able to justify the cost to move up that the Bills paid. That is probably not debatable . Besides, the pick was going to be Ebron if they hadn't moved up, not Beckham. The trade was only made due to a unique ownership situation that had the GM knowing he might not have a job next year, so he went all out. So be it. I don't find myself watching games thinking about WRs we could have had instead of Sammy. He's the last guy on this Offense that I'd swap for someone else.
HOUSE Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) This is like comparing Andre Reed to Jerry Rice. Jerry Rice being Sammy Watkins I take Jerry Rice......his value was easily worth 3 #1's Edited November 23, 2014 by HOUSE
GG Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Another reminder may be in orders that if it wasn't going to be Sammy, the was Ebron. So stop with the Beckham and Evans talk.
GunnerBill Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Evans was gone off the board.... and I think they probably knew he would be... he had become the consensus pick in Tampa the 2 weeks before the draft. So we don't definitively know that they had Ebron above Evans.... we do know that they had him above Beckham. EDIT: none of which changes the decision on Watkins in any way. Edited November 23, 2014 by GunnerBill
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