thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 I think the point is that it's tough to be upset if we don't know who it is that you would want. Both Odell Beckham and Cyrus Kuoandjio would have been pretty close on that list a year ago (I would guess). If the Bills missed out on Kuoandjio no one would care. If they missed out on Beckham people would have pitchforks. The specific player DOES matter. What will happen is that whoever the best player picked between 15 and the Bills 2nd round pick is people will be outraged that we missed out on him. The reality is that some of those 100 will end up as Cyrus and some Beckham. Thanks Yes, that's the whole point...thanks for clarifying. It's really difficult for me to understand the outrage over not having the 2015 first round pick if you don't have a player in mind to select with that pick. I look at it this way: I'd be very hopeful that a guy like Shaq Thompson fell to my pick. If he does, I'll be disappointed that Buffalo didn't have a chance to pick him. Even then, it's not actually fair to look back and say that I'd rather have Thompson/Beckham than Sammy, because at the time, I don't have the benefit of knowing that Thompson would be a guy I'd covet with my 2015 pick (as a side note, I don't think Thompson will fall outside the top 10). Overall, I think that the 2014 draft class is going to be far superior to the 2015, and there really isn't anyone I'm overly concerned on missing with the first round pick we don't have. There isn't, IMO, a franchise QB (or dynamic TE) to be had; at least not one that can start right away. This team's other needs (OG, FS, TE) can indeed be filled outside of the first round.
Deranged Rhino Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 I'm thinking about starting a public poll prior to the draft where everyone can go on record with the guy that they would have selected at 15 or whatever pick it ends up. This way after a few games go by we can just point back to what people said they would have DONE before the draft instead of with the benefit of hindsight. I don't remember a lot of people pounding the table for OBJ. Everyone was thrilled that they used next years 1st instead of wasting their 2nd in such a deep draft. How'd that work out? Please do. It'd be very entertaining. So many armchair GMs here who have no idea the process involved in scouting and preparing for a draft. It's quite comical. But please let's call the man by his chosen name: ODB.
billsfan714 Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Also, everyone who is critical of the trade is way overrating a draft pick between 15 and 20 (hopefully where Bills end up). It's a crapshoot whether you find an impact player at that point of the draft. It's not the end of the world. As a Bills fan in Steeler country, I have to disagree. Here is who the Steelers drafted between 15-20 since 2000. Polamalu, Pouncey, Timmons, Casey Hampton, Jarvis Jones and Shazier......not too shabby. Edited November 24, 2014 by billsfan714
Deranged Rhino Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 We don't know who that person is, which is what myself and others have been saying. (Even though teams dont know somehow message board posters are supposed to). But we do know that this point in time that pick has value. And you also proclaim to know that value is worth more than Sammy Watkins, even though he's a rookie who has yet to finish his first season. Rushes to judgments always work out well in sports and life in general.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) We don't know who that person is, which is what myself and others have been saying. (Even though teams dont know somehow message board posters are supposed to). But we do know that this point in time that pick has value. Of course it has value!! A 2015 1st had roughly the same trade value as a 2014 2nd at the time. Would you rather have a 2015 1st round pick or Cyrus? Edited November 24, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Posted November 24, 2014 And you also proclaim to know that value is worth more than Sammy Watkins, even though he's a rookie who has yet to finish his first season. Rushes to judgments always work out well in sports and life in general. Never said that at all. The lack of reading comprehension is really disturbing here.
Andrew Son Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Never said that at all. The lack of reading comprehension is really disturbing here. Ha, what's "clear" then?
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Posted November 24, 2014 Ha, what's "clear" then? That i never said a 2015 first round pick is worth more than sammy watkins
bbb Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Please, not that argument again. "Our backup plan sucked, therefore, the trade up was the right move." Haha - that's a great argument that Whaley can make to Pegula!
Deranged Rhino Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Never said that at all. The lack of reading comprehension is really disturbing here. Really? Might want to re-examine the title of your thread... You sound pretty darn definitive about it there.
TheFunPolice Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Here's the problem with laughing at message board posters who don't "get it" that the Bills made the smart move: we aren't NFL GMs Would you mock us for not seeing that an arterial stent was a better option for a given patient than bypass surgery? Some people are paid to make these decisions and must be held to account for them. Let's see the season play out the rest of the way is my point. IF this team sinks like usual and ends up 7-9 or 8-8 (or worse) I would fire the GM and the coach. You can't have no QB, no playoffs, AND no 1st round pick and point to Watkins as a justification, given the way this draft turned out. Some might call it "hindsight" but I call it "results." EVERYONE thinks the decisions they make will work out and result in winning, which is why they made them. Results matter. WHEN will this team be good again? Edited November 24, 2014 by TheFunPolice
NoSaint Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 and some Beckham. and a reality also is, that we will see what beckham ends up as long term. hes had a good month.
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Really? Might want to re-examine the title of your thread... You sound pretty darn definitive about it there. You were commenting on my comment about the 2015 pick having value. To be clear my view is that : - beckham is better than watkins, therefore Beckham + 2015 picks are better than Watkins because the picks have positive value. What I didn't say is that those picks in isolation are of greater value than Watkins. Edited November 24, 2014 by JTSP
TheFunPolice Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 The Bills made the trade with the idea that Sammy was a key piece that would put them over the top. So let's see. Win 4 in a row and you're 9-5 and right in the playoff hunt.
Deranged Rhino Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 You were commenting on my comment about the 2015 pick having value. To be clear my view is that : - beckham is better than watkins, therefore Beckham + 2015 picks are better than Watkins because the picks have positive value. I know what you're view is, and my comment was about the ridiculousness of it. It still stands and encapsulated exactly what you just repeated above. You're making definitive statements about Watkins vs ODB vs an unknown pick because you're POSITIVE that ODB is better than Watkins -- which is an absurd proclamation to make at this point in their careers. It's more than absurd, it's laughable. Like I said, rushing to judgement always works out well in sports and life in general.
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Posted November 24, 2014 I know what you're view is, and my comment was about the ridiculousness of it. It still stands and encapsulated exactly what you just repeated above. You're making definitive statements about Watkins vs ODB vs an unknown pick because you're POSITIVE that ODB is better than Watkins -- which is an absurd proclamation to make at this point in their careers. It's more than absurd, it's laughable. Like I said, rushing to judgement always works out well in sports and life in general. Funny though you've had no issue with the many posters claiming Sammy>beckham, so much better hes worth more than Beckham + 2015 1st and 4th round picks.
Deranged Rhino Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Funny though you've had no issue with the many posters claiming Sammy>beckham, so much better hes worth more than Beckham + 2015 1st and 4th round picks. Their arguments are far more compelling, as a BILLS FAN, than yours. Especially considering the small sample size. That said, I have been firmly on record as being a fan of the move to get Watkins -- even if ODB ends up being a stud, which I think he is. Why? Because I believe Watkins does more than ODB and is a more complete player. Could I be wrong? Absolutely, I freely admit that I'm speculating even if it comes from an educated position. But I'm not making crazy proclamations that I KNOW ODB is better than Watkins 12 weeks into the season. That's silly. Like this thread.
thewildrabbit Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 While there is no denying Sammy Watkins great overall talent, it still won't deter comparisons to the other WR's in this year draft until he separates himself from the rest by putting up better numbers Beckham caught a pass that so many are considering as one of the best ever, as he caught it one handed, behind him, falling backwards. Which easily equals or betters any catch Sammy has made this year. Then you have Bucs WR Mike Evans currently ranked #1 in yards with 49 rec, 849 yards 8 TD's. This with scrubby #30th ranked Mike Glennon & #32nd ranked Josh McCown throwing to him. Then Kelvin Benjamin is ranked 17th in yards with 52 rec, 768 yards, 8 TD's. Sammy is ranked #29 in yards, and Odell is ranked #36 in yards. So right now Sammy isn't even ranked as the best rookie WR in this years draft class so far. This debate on giving up three players to draft one will only increase until Sammy can actually separate himself from the rest of the class.
Recommended Posts