TheFunPolice Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 What franchise QB will be available with the Bills first rounder next year? Please, tell me. I have no idea. Where is the pick? I don't follow college football at all. I am also not the Bills GM, whose job it is to get things right. I am not a mechanic, but if I drive away from the shop with my brakes grinding and squealing I know something went wrong. When I take it back I expect the, to FIX IT, not give me the whole "well, YOU TELL ME how to fix it then!" routine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 We know it translated to +3 wins. Draw your own conclusion from that if you want, but I personally believe it does. To me since as you stated we do not know if Beckham would have made those plays or not, you cannot draw any direct conclusions other than that Watkins did make them. But fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) For the record, I am not anti-Sammy. I AM anti-no chance at the playoffs after 15+ seasons of CRAP FOOTBALL. HOWEVER (and it is a BIG however) this team has a decent shot at the post season if they can get to 10-6, so that buys everyone some time and some slack. Again, RESULTS. These men are paid to produce RESULTS (i.e. winning seasons and playoff runs). Edited November 24, 2014 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 I have no idea. Where is the pick? I don't follow college football at all. I am also not the Bills GM, whose job it is to get things right. I am not a mechanic, but if I drive away from the shop with my brakes grinding and squealing I know something went wrong. When I take it back I expect the, to FIX IT, not give me the whole "well, YOU TELL ME how to fix it then!" routine.... I know that whole "tell me the guy you would draft in 2015 now" is ridiculous, even many teams don't know until their actually on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well we do know that other teams could have offered Cleveland a comparable trade and didnt First off, no, there is not one other team that had the #9 overall pick to offer, so right off the bat, that's not correct. As for other teams offering a 2015 first round pick, if Cleveland was talking to another team (and they were), then that part of the deal was non-negotiable, so yes, at least one other team made a similar offer. I know that whole "tell me the guy you would draft in 2015 now" is ridiculous, even many teams don't know until their actually on the clock. Horse manure. Teams know who they want well in advance of the draft; or at least they have a group of players they like more than the rest. They don't know who they'll end up with until they're on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Son Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Schopp all over this today. How about covering !@#$ing gameday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 First off, no, there is not one other team that had the #9 overall pick to offer, so right off the bat, that's not correct. As for other teams offering a 2015 first round pick, if Cleveland was talking to another team (and they were), then that part of the deal was non-negotiable, so yes, at least one other team made a similar offer. Horse manure. Teams know who they want well in advance of the draft; or at least they have a group of players they like more than the rest. They don't know who they'll end up with until they're on the clock. No idea what you're trying to say on other teams not being able to put together a comparable trade package for Cleveland, but then again neither do you so that makes 2 of us. And the 2015 selections, you're saying teams have that nailed down now? Which group of players they want? Before the combine? Before they know the draft order? Before the colleague season is over? When a lot of GMs don't even know if they'll have a job next year? For example at this time last year jags knew they wanted bortles #3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 SCOREBOARD You either win (and thus are vindicated) or lose (and thus are shown to be wrong) It's really that simple. If they WIN and make the playoffs then the deal for Watkins was worth it. If they go 7-9 or 8-8 then it wasn't and people deserve to be fired. I'm not in the mood to "explain" why failure is really okay (again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) And the 2015 selections, you're saying teams have that nailed down now? Which group of players they want? Before the combine? Before they know the draft order? Before the colleague season is over? When a lot of GMs don't even know if they'll have a job next year? For example at this time last year jags knew they wanted bortles #3? Most have a really good sense at this point. The early projections are developed at the Blesto meeting a year out. This is where the team's share their information on rising prospects. Obviously as further evaluation goes on some guys will rise and fall but the teams have a really, really, really good idea of the guys that will go in the first 100 picks (or whatever). Of their top 50 guys at this point at least 25 of them will go in the 1st. That leaves 7 spots (roughly) to climb. With the college season almost done this holds even more true. EDIT: If K-9 is on here he can probably do the best job of laying out that timeline. Edited November 24, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 It's not about how they saw him (or how anyone saw him). It's about being right. The idea of paying that much for a WR is that you are getting a guy that is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the rest of the WR in this class. I'm not sure that is the case. You know when people stop questioning the front office's moves and Schopp stops turning everything into a chance to criticize this team? WHEN THEY FREAKING WIN SOMETHING! Making the playoffs sometime this GENERATION would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 No idea what you're trying to say on other teams not being able to put together a comparable trade package for Cleveland, but then again neither do you so that makes 2 of us. No need to be insulting just because I pointed out a flaw in your argument. I know exactly what I'm saying. You said that any other team could've put together a comparable package of picks. Nope. Not true. If the Browns had been offered another team's #1 in 2014, say, for example, Dallas at No. 16, plus Dallas' 1st in 2015, that would not be comparable to Buffalo's #1 in 2014 and #1 in 2015. Sorry you didn't understand it the first time. And the 2015 selections, you're saying teams have that nailed down now? Which group of players they want? Before the combine? Before they know the draft order? Before the colleague season is over? When a lot of GMs don't even know if they'll have a job next year? For example at this time last year jags knew they wanted bortles #3? I'll tell you for certain that they have a good idea of players that are going to make up much of the top of their board (interestingly enough, there was an article by Peter King talking about how Jacksonville GM David Caldwell knew that he wanted Blake Bortles for over a year). Again though, that's not really what I was taking issue with...you said teams don't know who they want until they're on the clock...that's not at all true. And the point of the original question is quite simple: I'd like to know, from the group of people that are so flummoxed about not having a 2015 first-round pick, who they are that upset about missing out on? To simply say "well I don't know...someone I guess" completely belies reason given that those folks are making such a big deal out of not having that pick. Do you not see the irony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 Most have a really good sense at this point. The early projections are developed at the Blesto meeting a year out. This is where the team's share their information on rising prospects. Obviously as further evaluation goes on some guys will rise and fall but the teams have a really, really, really good idea of the guys that will go in the first 100 picks (or whatever). Of their top 50 guys at this point at least 25 of them will go in the 1st. That leaves 7 spots (roughly) to climb. With the college season almost done this holds even more true. EDIT: If K-9 is on here he can probably do the best job of laying out that timeline. They're asking THE PLAYER to be named now for who we would have taken in 2015. If you want to be that general about it, here's one list of top 100 prospects. Possibly one of them. http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2015.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 would you spend an extra 1st to go from 5-11 to 8-8? Hopefully that is NOT the case. This team could STILL make the playoffs if they win a few. but keep in mind, he is here longer than just this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Most have a really good sense at this point. The early projections are developed at the Blesto meeting a year out. This is where the team's share their information on rising prospects. Obviously as further evaluation goes on some guys will rise and fall but the teams have a really, really, really good idea of the guys that will go in the first 100 picks (or whatever). Of their top 50 guys at this point at least 25 of them will go in the 1st. That leaves 7 spots (roughly) to climb. With the college season almost done this holds even more true. EDIT: If K-9 is on here he can probably do the best job of laying out that timeline. K-9 and I agreed that this article was a really nice summary of the process: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/3/6/5473554/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-process-big-board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 No need to be insulting just because I pointed out a flaw in your argument. I know exactly what I'm saying. You said that any other team could've put together a comparable package of picks. Nope. Not true. If the Browns had been offered another team's #1 in 2014, say, for example, Dallas at No. 16, plus Dallas' 1st in 2015, that would not be comparable to Buffalo's #1 in 2014 and #1 in 2015. Sorry you didn't understand it the first time. You have no idea what "comparable" means or "trade value" or pretty much anything (all worked up about name calling when you're the one who throwing "horse manure" around) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 They're asking THE PLAYER to be named now for who we would have taken in 2015. If you want to be that general about it, here's one list of top 100 prospects. Possibly one of them. http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2015.asp I think the point is that it's tough to be upset if we don't know who it is that you would want. Both Odell Beckham and Cyrus Kuoandjio would have been pretty close on that list a year ago (I would guess). If the Bills missed out on Kuoandjio no one would care. If they missed out on Beckham people would have pitchforks. The specific player DOES matter. What will happen is that whoever the best player picked between 15 and the Bills 2nd round pick is people will be outraged that we missed out on him. The reality is that some of those 100 will end up as Cyrus and some Beckham. K-9 and I agreed that this article was a really nice summary of the process: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/3/6/5473554/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-process-big-board Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 You have no idea what "comparable" means or "trade value" or pretty much anything (all worked up about name calling when you're the one who throwing "horse manure" around) Um..."horse manure" is a polite way of saying "BS", or, in other words "what you are saying is not correct". That's not name-calling, and trust me, I'm not worked up over a message board discussion. Also, I have no idea why you think I don't understand what comparable or trade value means. I do, and I've discussed it...anyway, it seems you aren't interested in actually supporting your opinion, so I'll move on to others that actually feel inclined to discuss this topic in real, actual terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 I think the point is that it's tough to be upset if we don't know who it is that you would want. Both Odell Beckham and Cyrus Kuoandjio would have been pretty close on that list a year ago (I would guess). If the Bills missed out on Kuoandjio no one would care. If they missed out on Beckham people would have pitchforks. The specific player DOES matter. What will happen is that whoever the best player picked between 15 and the Bills 2nd round pick is people will be outraged that we missed out on him. The reality is that some of those 100 will end up as Cyrus and some Beckham. Thanks We don't know who that person is, which is what myself and others have been saying. (Even though teams dont know somehow message board posters are supposed to). But we do know that this point in time that pick has value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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