Wayne Cubed Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 And you are sure ODB doesn't make those plays? Against Miami, Yes. He was injured the first 4 games. Unless you wanna play the imaginary game of "maybe he doesn't get hurt if he is on the Bills". And probably Detroit as well because he didn't come into his first game as a gang buster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 What you are really saying is that plays are made by a team (several individual plays from several players) working in tandem with the rest of the unit throughout a course of a game that leads to wins. Good grief, I didn't think we need to devolve this far to have this discussion. Yes, teams play the game...are we good now? One more time: The Bills don't win against Miami, Minnesota, or Detroit without Sammy; that's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 It's not casual just because you don't like it. Shelf the insults and keep the discussion to football. I'm not sure why you refuse to acknowledge the crux of what I'm saying, but I'll say it again: The Bills don't win against Miami, Minnesota, or Detroit without Sammy; that's the point. Bills blew out miami, its ridiculous to credit sammy with the "win" there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Here is how i end this. if anyone can show me in a previous post where they said we need to draft Beckham JR I will then let you have this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Bills blew out miami, its ridiculous to credit sammy with the "win" there. Did you watch that game? Sammy had 8 catches, and I believe 7 of them were for first downs. He also scored the teams only offensive TD. They would not have won that game without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Simple: the #1 WR is the guy that is targeted the most often in the offense. Jackson has 103 targets in 2014; Evans has 83. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingTargets Wanna bet who gets more targets for the rest of the year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Bills blew out miami, its ridiculous to credit sammy with the "win" there. How about that extremely low % kick from carpenter in the detroit game or the 7-11 and chandler catch in the final drive of the minny game. The fact is football games don't come down to one player. We don't win any game without plays being made by 3 units consisting of 11 players each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) here we go with the revisionist histories. Here's some more #1 or #2 overalls for you to revise, and just imagine dropping multiple 1st's for: Sam Bradford Jamarcus Russell Robert Gallery Charles Rogers David Carr Robert Griffin Its not revisionist history if those sentiments were posted BEFORE the draft. Feel free to dig in the archives and it's right there for you. It's kind of ironic that the MMQB of the conversation is bringing up revisionist history. At any rate I will try to tackle your hand picked guys: Griffin was worth it. He graded out incredibly high and his game had few holes. Obviously injuries have changed his career and negated his unique skill set. Bradford had some injury concerns but a solid resume. He missed an entire season in college I think. That would not deter me from selecting him but it would deter me from investing more than my pick. It goes back to the Clowney point. There were questions. Gallery was a stud coming out but I'd never use 2 1sts on a guy unless he scores TDs or prevents them. The Bill Polian theory if you will. If the guy isn't an elite skill player or a pass rusher he wouldn't be worth more than my pick. Again, you can see all of this posted before the draft. I wouldn't have touched Jamarcus Russell with a 10 foot pole. He added like 40 lbs before the draft. I wouldn't have used any picks on him. Carr is interesting. He was a good player and went to a franchise starting up. I don't think that they could afford to use more than a 1st on him. He was beaten up horribly early in his career. I actually like Harrington a little more but don't think that I would have used 2 1sts on either (but I guess this one is possible). I loved Charles Rogers coming out. I may have done this as well but I would have had some concerns about a guy with multiple kids before leaving high school. Some others that I would have made the move up for over the last 5 years: AJ Green, Von Miller, Julio Jones, Mack, Watkins, Suh, Spiller, Crabtree, Aaron Curry, RGIII, Luck and Trent Richardson. Edited November 24, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) How about that extremely low % kick from carpenter in the detroit game or the 7-11 and chandler catch in the final drive of the minny game. The fact is football games don't come down to one player. We don't win any game without plays being made by 3 units consisting of 11 players each. I agree and when you're talking blowout like miami its even more ridiculous. Watkins didn't even lead in total yards, spiller did including the dramatic kick off return that stifled miami's momentum Edited November 24, 2014 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Wanna bet who gets more targets for the rest of the year? You asked why Jackson was the #1 WR, and I answered. You didn't ask who was going to be their #1 WR in the future. In all likelihood it'll be Evans, since they're probably moving on from Jackson after this season (there was trade talk all off-season as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Here is how i end this. if anyone can show me in a previous post where they said we need to draft Beckham JR I will then let you have this. haha - all I remember is a lot of b*tching and whining when it was reported the Bills liked him because he wasn't tall enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) I agree and when you're talking blowout like miami its even more ridiculous. Watkins didn't even lead in total yards, spiller did including the dramatic kick off return that stifled miami's momentum Considering how dominate our defensive unit has been this year in pretty much every game, assigning wins to individual players is even more rediculous. Using that same rational we would have one less win without Chris Hogan and Scott Chandler and Sammy wouldn't have been responsible for that 3rd win. Really? Really!?! Edited November 24, 2014 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Considering how dominate our defensive unit has been this year in pretty much every game, assigning wins to individual players is even more rediculous. Using that same rational we would have one less win without Chris Hogan and Scott Chandler and Sammy wouldn't have been responsible for that 3rd win. Really? Really!?! So what you are saying is we can cut Dareus, Mario, Kiko, Sammy, FJ ETC, but as long as this team plays together, they should win (Given they have good QB play) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Considering how dominate our defensive unit has been this year in pretty much every game, assigning wins to individual players is even more rediculous. Using that same rational we would have one less win without Chris Hogan and Scott Chandler and Sammy wouldn't have been responsible for that 3rd win. Really? Really!?! You have a gift for conflating rationale...I'll give you that. The point of this entire discussion, at least if I'm reading the original post in the thread correctly, was that moving up for Sammy was a mistake because the team could've just picked Beckham and had the same (or better) results. My point is quite simple: without Sammy, they don't win 3 of the 5 games they've won. Can we say that the results would be the same with Beckham? No, no we cannot (at least not without wild levels of speculation). What is so confusing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I don't disagree and don't think that I buy it. I'm of the philosophy that there are lots of way to build a roster. Obviously having a franchise QB helps but they are tough to come by. By my calculation less than 1/3 of the league has them. You need to make the most of your resources though. Every time you pick a Kuoandjio, Troupe, Maybin or McCargo you are squandering a very valuable resource. The same can be said for making Derrick Dockery the highest paid lineman in the game. You only have so many valuable resources (high picks & big contracts) that you better be sure that you are right when using them. This holds especially true if you are a few steps away. Even if it costs you double the valuable resources (Sammy or Mario) at the end of the day your team is better off with those guys on the roster. It cuts your margin for error elsewhere but if you raise your "hit %" who cares? The problems arise when you swing and miss with a valuable resource. interesting stat. Defense is huge! @theMMQB: When Lions went 4-12 In 2012, Matthew Stafford was 59.8% passer w/ +3 TD/INT ratio. In '14, he's 58.8% w/ +3 TD/INT. http://t.co/qbvOzqHBIj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Definitely an amazing catch, but did anyone else think they called PI on the wrong guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 No, it means the people doing the "projecting" aren't great at their jobs. no need to be snarky. I just told you it was my relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 So what you are saying is we can cut Dareus, Mario, Kiko, Sammy, FJ ETC, but as long as this team plays together, they should win (Given they have good QB play) No, you can't say that, because that would be assigning responsibility to one player, which apparently is "rediculous" (which I think is similar to "ridiculous", but cannot say for certain) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 My point is quite simple: without Sammy, they don't win 3 of the 5 games they've won. Can we say that the results would be the same with Beckham? No, no we cannot (at least not without wild levels of speculation). “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - C. Hitchens The evidence to the contrary (what would the bills be with Beckham) doesn't exist. It's a silly point to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - C. Hitchens The evidence to the contrary (what would the bills be with Beckham) doesn't exist. It's a silly point to make. So again, Did you want Beckham this entire time, going back to before the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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