Wayne Cubed Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 It sure is a casual fan rationalization, because an individual player can't "win" a football game. Football isn't broken down that simple except to a casual eye. There are hundreds of variables in a single outcome of a game. The single player argument doesn't exist. Soooooooo then QB play doesn't matter. QB's don't win games or carry teams, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 So no more drafting wrs or runningbacks in 1st round? All are a dime a dozen? Bbf you gotta get your mock 1st round drAft ready. Which positions left can be drafted in the first round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Again, why does Seattle trade 1st, 4th, and 7th round picks for Percy Harvin, who comes back in the playoffs to help them win a Superbowl? Why do they then follow up that trade by drafting yet another WR with their first pick in the 2014 draft? WRs aren't a dime a dozen; they are, however, superseded by quality QB play. If one wants to claim that getting a QB is more important than a WR, fine, I can buy that. However, one needs to look no further than Brady without Welker/Gronk to see how not having a quality No. 1 target affects the passing game. The Percy Harvin that was out for the entire regular season. Brilliant argument. The overall Percy Harvin factor was miniscule to their successful season last year. Soooooooo then QB play doesn't matter. QB's don't win games or carry teams, right? They need players around them too especially a solid defensive unit if they want to win championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 The Percy Harvin that was out for the entire regular season. Brilliant argument. The overall Percy Harvin factor was miniscule to their successful season last year. Might want to watch the super bowl again. He did things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 So no more drafting wrs or runningbacks in 1st round? All are a dime a dozen? Bbf you gotta get your mock 1st round drAft ready. Which positions left can be drafted in the first round? QB, offensive line, defensive line, lb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Again, why does Seattle trade 1st, 4th, and 7th round picks for Percy Harvin, who comes back in the playoffs to help them win a Superbowl? Why do they then follow up that trade by drafting yet another WR with their first pick in the 2014 draft? WRs aren't a dime a dozen; they are, however, superseded by quality QB play. If one wants to claim that getting a QB is more important than a WR, fine, I can buy that. However, one needs to look no further than Brady without Welker/Gronk to see how not having a quality No. 1 target affects the passing game. if the season ended today, seattle misses the playoffs. why the drop off ? because they are spending too many resources on wr's. seattle dumped harvin and carry $7 mil in DEAD MONEY against their cap. gronk is a front 7 player. welker had 4 targets yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 The Percy Harvin that was out for the entire regular season. Brilliant argument. The overall Percy Harvin factor was miniscule to their successful season last year. They need players around them too especially a solid defensive unit if they want to win championships. Who are the top 5 WR's in your eyes? please list them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 It is an interesting question, however, in order to make giving first rounders like Gilmore, McKelvin and Spiller up you better be better at drafting in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th (Whitner was the classic "draft for need" and Maybin just a bust). Because having 3 or 4 stars on your roster from alternate year's first round picks is great, but if the rest of your roster is Koundjios and TJ Grahams then you ain't going to be winning many games. I don't disagree and don't think that I buy it. I'm of the philosophy that there are lots of way to build a roster. Obviously having a franchise QB helps but they are tough to come by. By my calculation less than 1/3 of the league has them. You need to make the most of your resources though. Every time you pick a Kuoandjio, Troupe, Maybin or McCargo you are squandering a very valuable resource. The same can be said for making Derrick Dockery the highest paid lineman in the game. You only have so many valuable resources (high picks & big contracts) that you better be sure that you are right when using them. This holds especially true if you are a few steps away. Even if it costs you double the valuable resources (Sammy or Mario) at the end of the day your team is better off with those guys on the roster. It cuts your margin for error elsewhere but if you raise your "hit %" who cares? The problems arise when you swing and miss with a valuable resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) FYI - texted my relative who works in nfl FO. Said that OB projected as a number 2-3 WR in the NFL. One handed catches are his specialty but he can only do it with one hand (right). Which is normal btw. He didn't have top end elite speed. Below avg blocker. Was expected to be inconsistent in getting separation. Watkins was bigger, faster, stronger and can make the one hand catch with both hands which is very rare. Projected as #1 WR in NFL. No flaws. Fwiw. Obviously we evaluate these guys after a couple yrs but that was the predraft analysis. Watkins was 3rd on their board behind Mack and clowney. Edited November 24, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 They need players around them too especially a solid defensive unit if they want to win championships. We aren't talking championships. You said "individual players don't win games...." You said nothing about championships. But even then, I'd say you were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Id rather have the guy who's better + a pick in the most valuable round next year Obviously. Get a GM job and you can execute that plan. Not saying you are wrong, but you are not obviously right either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 I don't disagree and don't think that I buy it. I'm of the philosophy that there are lots of way to build a roster. Obviously having a franchise QB helps but they are tough to come by. By my calculation less than 1/3 of the league has them. You need to make the most of your resources though. Every time you pick a Kuoandjio, Troupe, Maybin or McCargo you are squandering a very valuable resource. The same can be said for making Derrick Dockery the highest paid lineman in the game. You only have so many valuable resources (high picks & big contracts) that you better be sure that you are right when using them. This holds especially true if you are a few steps away. Even if it costs you double the valuable resources (Sammy or Mario) at the end of the day your team is better off with those guys on the roster. It cuts your margin for error elsewhere but if you raise your "hit %" who cares? The problems arise when you swing and miss with a valuable resource. what if you had traded multiple 1st's for "sure things" like Leaf and Mandarich? Now you're out mutliple 1st round picks instead of 1 ... this is the nightmare scenario Washington finds itself in right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Who are the top 5 WR's in your eyes? please list them. I really don't think there is a top 5 that is head and shoulders above another. It's a flooded position in the NFL with a lot of great players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I thought it was a poor decision before it happened. Never move up and give up your 1st rounder unless you think you are getting a franchise qb. Receivers are wayyyyyyyy easier to replace than qbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 FYI - texted my relative who works in nfl FO. Said that OB projected as a number 2-3 WR in the NFL. Then why did the Giants use a mid-first round pick on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 FYI - texted my relative who works in nfl FO. Said that OB projected as a number 2-3 WR in the NFL. One handed catches are his specialty but he can only do it with one hand (right). Which is normal btw. He didn't have top end elite speed. Below avg blocker. Was expected to be inconsistent in getting separation. Watkins was bigger, faster, stronger and can make the one hand catch with both hands which is very rare. Projected as #1 WR in NFL. No flaws. Fwiw. Obviously we evaluate these guys after a couple yrs but that was the predraft analysis. Watkins was 3rd on their board behind Mack and clowney. but we drafted Watkins ahead of Mack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) I thought it was a poor decision before it happened. Never move up and give up your 1st rounder unless you think you are getting a franchise qb. Receivers are wayyyyyyyy easier to replace than qbs. Receivers are also easier to replace than OL, CB's, DT's, LB's, DE's and TE's IMO. Edited November 24, 2014 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Almost all picks are mistakes if your evaluation is simply based on who else was available. The year Tom Brady was drafted, Every team made a mistake every round, including the Patriots 5 times. If Watkins ends up playing in multiple Pro Bowls count the trade as a victory. I do think it is a little too soon to decide if the trade was a mistake, but it is fun to speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Then why did the Giants use a mid-first round pick on him? evans also projected as a #2. Doesn't mean they aren't good. but we drafted Watkins ahead of Mack not the Bills board... Different team. Watkins was reportedly first on the Bills board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I really don't think there is a top 5 that is head and shoulders above another. It's a flooded position in the NFL with a lot of great players. Is that because the top 5 in that position disprove your theory? Johnson Jones Thomas Green Bryant All first round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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