4merper4mer Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: There is very little known data for a planetary system 50-100 light years away never mind 10,000 light years distant. What data are you using? There is a lot more known data than you may think. In the end, the lack of data is the real, conclusive and final evidence. It's stark, but it is reality.
RochesterRob Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Tiberius said: The odds of probability do seem to point to the existence of life elsewhere, but no evidence yet.. But the math is even more compelling, see how not just the number of stars need counting, but the number of stars over the billions of years. Life could have started somewhere else two billion years ago on a star that no longer exists. This is the stuff I have been reading about lately, actually. So in the universe we have been a really "noisy" planet. For the last 120 years or so our radio waves have been heading out into the universe. If anyone is out there listening they should find us, if they have not already. Humble us, is looking for signs from space like that. Seeing how it took us 10,000 years or so to get this far, and that the universe is over ten billion years old, the probability that an older civilization--maybe 30,000 years old--has already found us and either doesn't care or is just observing us. Two billion years seems a rather short life cycle but yes a system with planets and star(s) could have come and gone in the span of several billion years. The signal could be out there yet to be received by us but due to distance it may take thousands or millions or more years to finally get it. 1
Azalin Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 7 hours ago, RochesterRob said: We could possibly see some kind of primitive warp drive before most of us die. Time will tell. Could you elaborate on that?
4merper4mer Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 4 hours ago, RochesterRob said: Two billion years seems a rather short life cycle but yes a system with planets and star(s) could have come and gone in the span of several billion years. The signal could be out there yet to be received by us but due to distance it may take thousands or millions or more years to finally get it. Nope
RochesterRob Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Azalin said: Could you elaborate on that? If you go by some of the "educational" shows there are scientists at least working on the theory and have been for years. What is going on out of the view of the general public is anybody's guess in terms of development. I am not saying with certainty that it will be introduced within the next 25-50 years. In fact I would put the probability very low but not at 0 or no chance at all. A far greater probability is propulsion at near half the speed of light within 25-50 years.
Azalin Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, RochesterRob said: If you go by some of the "educational" shows there are scientists at least working on the theory and have been for years. What is going on out of the view of the general public is anybody's guess in terms of development. I am not saying with certainty that it will be introduced within the next 25-50 years. In fact I would put the probability very low but not at 0 or no chance at all. A far greater probability is propulsion at near half the speed of light within 25-50 years. While I agree that primitive warp engines might prove feasible someday, we're so far away from developing one - let alone one that can power manned spacecraft - that I believe it will be generations, possibly many, many generations before we even begin to approach making that a reality. It's fun to imagine the possibility though. The big wet blanket in these conversations is the incredible distance between us and even the nearest stars, and the fact that until Einstein is either proven wrong or warp technology really does become a thing, it would take a really, really long time just to get to Proxima Centauri. Back on topic, alternative energy sources are well worth investing in and developing further, but the big hurtle is going to be coming up with an alternative way to power jet aircraft. Whoever comes up with that is going to change everything. Edited February 4, 2020 by Azalin 1
Foxx Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 Weather warning: Earth could be hit by MINI ICE-AGE as Sun ‘hibernates’ 1
3rdnlng Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, Foxx said: Weather warning: Earth could be hit by MINI ICE-AGE as Sun ‘hibernates’ The 70's called and want their scare tactics back. 2
Foxx Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 38 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: The 70's called and want their scare tactics back. a mini ice age is much more probable than the, 'settled science' folks argument. 2
Gary M Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Foxx said: Weather warning: Earth could be hit by MINI ICE-AGE as Sun ‘hibernates’ 10 paragraphs with historical data, then this !!!! However, other experts disagree with Prof Zharkova’s theory, stating any cooling effect will be “vastly offset” by climate change. Solar scientist Mathew Owens said: “Thus there will probably be no detectable effect on global climate.” 1
Dante Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 10:35 AM, Tiberius said: Global warming will almost certainly lead to more tension and perhaps nuclear holocaust. That you find that funny says a lot about you. It's funny because anyone with a free mind and common sense realizes it's all a hoax/scam/ control mechanism. Hell at at this point I'm questioning the existence of nukes and if that kind of holocaust is even possible.
Tiberius Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Dante said: It's funny because anyone with a free mind and common sense realizes it's all a hoax/scam/ control mechanism. Hell at at this point I'm questioning the existence of nukes and if that kind of holocaust is even possible. Global warming? No, totally totally disagree. All my favorite scientists say its real. All genuine scientists say its real. The science is easy to understand. They are science people. Reminds me of how the Church and ignorant people in general so dismissed the idea the earth is not at center of universe. Burned people at the stake for it! Conservatives, it is true, need ignorance. They can't run on the truth, so religion, hating science etc. are just part of their political DNA. 1
Dante Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) On 2/5/2020 at 9:52 AM, Tiberius said: Global warming? No, totally totally disagree. All my favorite scientists say its real. All genuine scientists say its real. The science is easy to understand. They are science people. Reminds me of how the Church and ignorant people in general so dismissed the idea the earth is not at center of universe. Burned people at the stake for it! Conservatives, it is true, need ignorance. They can't run on the truth, so religion, hating science etc. are just part of their political DNA. I don't trust science any more since it's been compromised for the sake of control. So it doesn't mean shite to me. Now I'm more into pattern recognition. I trust my instincts and my own observations more. Edited February 6, 2020 by Dante 1
3rdnlng Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 7 hours ago, Tiberius said: Global warming? No, totally totally disagree. All my favorite scientists say its real. All genuine scientists say its real. The science is easy to understand. They are science people. Reminds me of how the Church and ignorant people in general so dismissed the idea the earth is not at center of universe. Burned people at the stake for it! Conservatives, it is true, need ignorance. They can't run on the truth, so religion, hating science etc. are just part of their political DNA. Are you trying to be funny?
Taro T Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said: Are you trying to be funny? Probably not. And it probably includes Bill Nye, the cast of Big Bang Theory, and Thomas Dolby (She Blinded Him with Science. SCIENCE!), and the like. 2
3rdnlng Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, Taro T said: Probably not. And it probably includes Bill Nye, the cast of Big Bang Theory, and Thomas Dolby (She Blinded Him with Science. SCIENCE!), and the like. What would make a person a "favorite scientist"?
Taro T Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said: What would make a person a "favorite scientist"? Don't know. Suppose you'd have to ask the resident paint chip eater how he chooses them. 2
3rdnlng Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Taro T said: Don't know. Suppose you'd have to ask the resident paint chip eater how he chooses them. I've wracked my brain and it would appear that the only thing that makes sense would be if the scientist told him what he wanted to hear. 1 1
Koko78 Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 2 hours ago, 3rdnlng said: What would make a person a "favorite scientist"? Looking like Dr. Amy Mainzer helps: 1
4merper4mer Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 On February 4, 2020 at 12:14 AM, Azalin said: While I agree that primitive warp engines might prove feasible someday, we're so far away from developing one - let alone one that can power manned spacecraft - that I believe it will be generations, possibly many, many generations before we even begin to approach making that a reality. It's fun to imagine the possibility though. The big wet blanket in these conversations is the incredible distance between us and even the nearest stars, and the fact that until Einstein is either proven wrong or warp technology really does become a thing, it would take a really, really long time just to get to Proxima Centauri. Back on topic, alternative energy sources are well worth investing in and developing further, but the big hurtle is going to be coming up with an alternative way to power jet aircraft. Whoever comes up with that is going to change everything. You're getting there. Let's just say these systems exist in 100 years. By then two other things will likely have happened: 1. Artificial intelligence will have made huge leaps. 2. Another theorized, or as yet theorized superior system of high speed space propulsion will have been devised and would potentially be deployable. Don't like 100 years as a measure? How about 10? 50? 1000? 10,000? Pick one. And let's say the limitation of light speed turns out to be 100% the upper limit. There is another constant that renders this exploration a little less exciting but no less important. It will always be vastly more difficult to maintain a life support system traveling for decades through space to known or unknown destinations than to go without one. Each one of us has billions of bacteria within that help support our existence. The same complexities and interdependencies are obstacles for most living things on Earth. Does it make economic sense or scientific sense to attempt to send entire ecosystems on journeys for thousands of years in multiple directions? It sure would be awesome but does it make sense? I don't think so, because all of these life forms come in miniature form and you know what they all do? They replicate. We don't have the means at this point in history but at some point in the future we will be able to send a miniature Noah's Ark.....and it will be able to replicate. It's transport will also be able to replicate. No matter how advanced we become, this method will always make more sense than transporting actual living things. So.....given self replicating robots that hop around exploring, how long would it take to explore the entire galaxy? Realistic numbers say it would be about 250k years once started for the purely robotic variety. This method makes sense for us. If the galaxy was teeming with life it would also have to make sense for at least some of the other societies, no? 250,000 years isn't that long really. But where are all these probes? Where is any other sign at all? We are learning a lot and every single thing we've learned in the past decade+ points to it being just us. Every data point. Our probes will be the first but with some luck and perseverance they will succeed somewhere, probably many somewheres. 1
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