NoSaint Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I read it....but I am a season ticket holder and have seen Manuel play a lot. Manuel does not have pro accuracy.. Can't throw the deep ball at all, and he "lost" his receivers during the 2014 season/first four games. The gestures after he missed them told it all. Marrone took the heat for the decision, but Manuel lost the receiver core....and they were excited to have Orton be the starter. Further, it was not necessary to have a limited playbook so Manuel could succeed...Orton the veteran could absorb the whole thing after 4 weeks with the team. I would further comment that if Orton had been with the Bills in training camp, he would have been the starter out of camp. Remember, the plan was for Kolb to play the first year...and let EJ learn by sitting...ala Aaron Rogers at Green Bay (3 seasons) I honestly think, if EJ is ever to succeed, he needs to sit awhile and get mentally ready. I remain skeptical he has the arm.....however, and, if I were making the choice, I would give him only one more season to show himself. After that......adious if he isn't clearly an NFL QB....and it sure isn't obvious now. "Losing the receivers" worries me not just about EJ but the receivers and the coaches that should be managing that relationship.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I have said this repeatedly and seems I need to again. When will Bills fans quit getting behind and supporting QB's that clearly do not have it? EJ is not, has not been and no ever will be the answer at QB. You have many of the same scouts still on board scouting QB's that scouted the likes of JP, Trent etal. For nearly 2 decades now all of the QB's that have come along fans get on the bandwagon, drink the kool aid and damn near get into physical altercations to support this guy because the "stats" show he could be something someday when clearly ALL of them are severely lacking. None have had the combination of Leadership skills, Arm strength, touch but most importantly the ability to read defenses and make the Defense adjust to them. Until this happens we won't be seeing a superbowl any time soon AND we will keep going in this same circle over and over and over. Mr. P needs to fire everyone. We have to cut out the "ralph" way of doing things and thinking and get rid of every damn scout we have and start over. But we won't. **** will continue to go as it does, whaley will never admit a mistake and cut EJ and fire most of the scouts and get some people in here and actually find a franchise QB. BTW I am sure I will hear about how hard it is and other teams still haven't found one. To that I say, !@#$ them. I don't give a damn about other teams, it is well past time for the BUFFALO BILLS to find a true Franchise QB no matter the cost. :thumbsup:
snafu Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I have said this repeatedly and seems I need to again. When will Bills fans quit getting behind and supporting QB's that clearly do not have it? EJ is not, has not been and no ever will be the answer at QB. You have many of the same scouts still on board scouting QB's that scouted the likes of JP, Trent etal. For nearly 2 decades now all of the QB's that have come along fans get on the bandwagon, drink the kool aid and damn near get into physical altercations to support this guy because the "stats" show he could be something someday when clearly ALL of them are severely lacking. None have had the combination of Leadership skills, Arm strength, touch but most importantly the ability to read defenses and make the Defense adjust to them. Until this happens we won't be seeing a superbowl any time soon AND we will keep going in this same circle over and over and over. Mr. P needs to fire everyone. We have to cut out the "ralph" way of doing things and thinking and get rid of every damn scout we have and start over. But we won't. **** will continue to go as it does, whaley will never admit a mistake and cut EJ and fire most of the scouts and get some people in here and actually find a franchise QB. BTW I am sure I will hear about how hard it is and other teams still haven't found one. To that I say, !@#$ them. I don't give a damn about other teams, it is well past time for the BUFFALO BILLS to find a true Franchise QB no matter the cost. Since I don't scout and I don't own the team and I'm a Bills fan, the way I see it my only choice is to support the guys the team brings in. Otherwise why should I bother to even follow the team. Should I not root for success because I don't think a quarterback has every tool necessary? I pull for their success in spite of obvious problems. It isn't that I can't see the problems. I only speak for myself, but I think this can be said for most fans of the team.
fridge Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 At the end of last season, I built a spreadsheet to see how quarterbacks who went on to win Super Bowls did in their first year (which I defined as being the one where they started at least half of games in that season) versus EJ Manuel's opening season. Manuel finished middle of the pack among the 30 by QBR, surely a duplicitous statistic if there ever was one. If you extrapolated Manuel's 10 game campaign out to 16 games, he would have finished with 288-490 3155 yds, 18 TDs 14 INTs and a QBR of 77.7, good enough for 15th on that list of Super Bowl quarterbacks. Payton Manning threw for more yards and more touchdowns (26), but also threw 28 INTs (QBR 71.2). Among the bottom feeders were two quarterbacks who won three Super Bowls against us: Joe Theismann and Troy Aikman. Aikman was really awful: 155-293 (52.9%) 1749 yds, 9 TDs 18 INTs in 11 starts and an 0-11 record in those games. Theismann fared little better: 187-390 (47.95%) 2593 yds 13 TDs 18 INTs in 14 starts, at least he was 7-7. Worse still, 2 time Super Bowl winner John Elway: 123-259 (47.49%) 1663 yds 7 TDs 14 INTs, winning 4 of 10 starts, and 4 time Super Bowl winner Terry Bradshaw: 83-218 (38.07%) 1410 yds 6 TDs 24 INTs, who somehow won 3 of 8 starts. But the thing that stood out to me most was the quarterbacks who started their first season out of college. Based on 13 Super Bowl QBs who started right out of college (by QBR), Manuel would place 4th right in front of Johnny Unitas. Peyton Manning, Aikman, Elway, and Bradshaw all started from behind center in season 1. Of Aikman, Elway, and especially Bradshaw, no one would describe them as being accurate. It may be hard to win in the NFL, but it's harder without a year holding a clipboard. There are the freaks of nature, Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger, and Joe Flacco, but that's three quarterbacks among hundreds drafted over the years. Even if you throw in the whole thirty, that's still a pittance compared to the number drafted over the last fifty years. Jim Kelly's numbers exceeded Manuel's his first year in the NFL but he had two years of "semi-pro" in the USFL where he lit up the league. I'd argue that he would have been magnificent as a rookie even if he hadn't spent two years in exile. Win-loss records of rookie quarterback can be misleading as well since the ones who were the most highly touted in the draft often went to the teams with the worst supporting cast. Hence, while Kelly had a great first season, the team still went 4-12. I'm not sure Manuel was much more fortunate as he went 4-6 and was one horrible Atlanta finish from being 5-5 that was completely out of his control. I'm not saying that Manuel is the saviour of the Bills franchise. He looks genuinely dreadful a good part of the time. But he deserves more than 14 games to prove his true worth. Yeah, stats are nice - but didn't you hear? Manuel didn't pass the TBD posters eye ball test.
Prickly Pete Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) I just found this video, and what strikes me is how different he looks...confident and moving fast off the snap, not to mention his running plays. He looks like he is anxious to attack the defense, as opposed to his Bills career, where he looks like a guy with a checklist running through his mind as he approaches the center, and filled with caution. He may never be a good pro, but there isn't much to lose by keeping him around to see if he develops. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYRCkpnnlIs And this.. Edited November 23, 2014 by HoF Watkins
The Williams Family Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Am i the only bills fan that still has hope for EJ he seems to have a fantastic work ethic i billieve he can be still be a franchise QB with the real teachers.
PolishDave Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 WTF? Another EJ thread? The dude is a backup qb in the NFL.
The Williams Family Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Why are you so quick to throw the guys career out the window?
YoloinOhio Posted November 24, 2014 Author Posted November 24, 2014 I don't know if he can be a franchise QB but I also don't know that he CAN'T be. Too soon to tell, for me. Had a normal rookie season that I thought showed promise.
Bills Realist Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Why are you so quick to throw the guys career out the window? Ok, I'll play. Because he sucks?
The Williams Family Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 I agree his rookie season went well apart from being injured and the tampa game
FireChan Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 I agree his rookie season went well apart from being injured and the tampa game And the Steelers game. And the Ravens game.
thebug Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Let him compete for the starter job next year.....best QB plays.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 You don't teach accuracy and feel for the game.
Best Player Available Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 just wait the dude is going to rip up the arena league soon.........
Dorkington Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 KO, EJ, it doesn't matter with this staff and line, so might as well play EJ, to see if he can become anything in this **** show.
Augie Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 just wait the dude is going to rip up the arena league soon......... So, EJ is going to do the Kurt Warner thing and win some Super Bowls?
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