FireChan Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) And that is how pretty much every long term project, plan, business starts, develops and eventually operates. Yes but this isn't an entrepreneur putting up his own money. And their goal is a profit, not a technology by-product. The fact we don't see an immediate return is why only a governmental agency like NASA can lead the way in a project as daunting and dangerous as space exploration. Corporations cannot undertake these ventures without exposing themselves to fatal economic risks, only the state can lead a project like this -- because you're right. There's no telling what will be invented/developed out of this or how it will be applied. Pretty much every medical imaging machine used today came from the Apollo program or is a direct descendent of technology discovered during that push. The jobs and technology that come out of an investment in the space program can't be quantified or predicted -- which again is why corporate interests cannot help, it goes against their fiscal interests to deal with unknown risks for unknown rewards. Once the risks are identified, then privatization can actually be extremely helpful in terms of streamlining and ingenuity. But you cannot define the risks until you go. But like others have said in this thread, I do not think just saying "space exploration" is enough. There needs to be a plan or at least a vision that's bold enough to capture the imagination of the people. Mars seems obvious. Hell, even a colony on the moon (which would probably be required in some form before manned missions to Mars) would be an exciting project that's more than achievable without new technology. We could set up a colony tomorrow if money wasn't an issue. (ha!) I suppose I just fleshed out a point you made in the OP. Whoops. I still think that's hard to sell to the American public, even if I agree. Edited November 19, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Yes but this isn't an entrepreneur putting up his own money. And their goal is a profit, not a technology by-product. I suppose I just fleshed out a point you made in the OP. Whoops. I still think that's hard to sell to the American public, even if I agree. I'm sold and I'm a Canadian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Wasn't it the US government...and the commies...that ended Hitler? Oh I forgot your ignorance of history. You don't seem to get degrees of change either. "We" have made giant leaps forward on the racial front, and a lot of that is the federal government's doing. Jim Crow was better than slavery and today is better than Jim Crow. Even you can see that, right? I am going to rear my head... Very busy and only have a few minutes here and there to lurk. What better thread to duck into. ;-) Bang for your buck and the Federal gov't. Anyway... I'd be careful there. It's the federal gov't trying to get right what it first got wrong (Plessy v. Ferguson, 1896)... Setting us back almost 60 years because it phucked up in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I am a good Federalist, but not that good. Really, let's call it for what it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Yes but this isn't an entrepreneur putting up his own money. And their goal is a profit, not a technology by-product. I suppose I just fleshed out a point you made in the OP. Whoops. I still think that's hard to sell to the American public, even if I agree. Oh it's absolutely an impossible sell to the American public. Look at Gator's responses (in all seriousness, not jest) -- you would think someone with his politics would be on board for something like this but he struggles to see the benefits because they're miles down the road. That's not a slam on Gator, just pointing out that his point of view on the matter is pretty common amongst folks of all political affiliations. It's tough to convince people to spend tax dollars on something with such abstract benefits. I guess that's the real question I'm kinda kicking around, is there a way to motivate folks at all in this environment or is it a lost cause. I just feel like there may be an opportunity with all the excitement from ESA landing on the comet and Curiosity a few years back. Hell, the ESA news attracted more internet/social media attention than Kim Kardashian's "break the internet" photo shoot -- which I have to be honest, really restored a lot of my faith in humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Oh it's absolutely an impossible sell to the American public. Look at Gator's responses (in all seriousness, not jest) -- you would think someone with his politics would be on board for something like this but he struggles to see the benefits because they're miles down the road. That's not a slam on Gator, just pointing out that his point of view on the matter is pretty common amongst folks of all political affiliations. It's tough to convince people to spend tax dollars on something with such abstract benefits. I guess that's the real question I'm kinda kicking around, is there a way to motivate folks at all in this environment or is it a lost cause. I just feel like there may be an opportunity with all the excitement from ESA landing on the comet and Curiosity a few years back. Hell, the ESA news attracted more internet/social media attention than Kim Kardashian's "break the internet" photo shoot -- which I have to be honest, really restored a lot of my faith in humanity. What if we show Kim Kardashian flashing her ass on the comet? We could also send her and Kanye on a one way trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Oh it's absolutely an impossible sell to the American public. Look at Gator's responses (in all seriousness, not jest) -- you would think someone with his politics would be on board for something like this but he struggles to see the benefits because they're miles down the road. That's not a slam on Gator, just pointing out that his point of view on the matter is pretty common amongst folks of all political affiliations. It's tough to convince people to spend tax dollars on something with such abstract benefits. I guess that's the real question I'm kinda kicking around, is there a way to motivate folks at all in this environment or is it a lost cause. I just feel like there may be an opportunity with all the excitement from ESA landing on the comet and Curiosity a few years back. Hell, the ESA news attracted more internet/social media attention than Kim Kardashian's "break the internet" photo shoot -- which I have to be honest, really restored a lot of my faith in humanity. Promote industry and manufacturing in THIS country and you may see the sentiment change, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 What if we show Kim Kardashian flashing her ass on the comet? We could also send her and Kanye on a one way trip. I'm in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 To get back on topic, I realize that's how basically all of modern technology came about. What I'm saying is that you don't see the return right away, and it's not as though we can present a clear-cut return, right? The space program didn't start by saying, "Let's fund this so we can eventually develop (insert technology here) and here are all of its possible uses." Technological breakthroughs are generally built in increments that pick up speed. The Space Program has never been over 1% of the Federal Budget but its impact is literally trillions of dollars. Of all the money the government spends, it's easily the best RoI. http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/partnership/economic_impacts.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 What if we show Kim Kardashian flashing her ass on the comet? Or better yet, land a camera on a comet to photograph landing the comet on her ass! Plenty of room based on what I've seen lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I am going to rear my head... Very busy and only have a few minutes here and there to lurk. What better thread to duck into. ;-) Bang for your buck and the Federal gov't. Anyway... I'd be careful there. It's the federal gov't trying to get right what it first got wrong (Plessy v. Ferguson, 1896)... Setting us back almost 60 years because it phucked up in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I am a good Federalist, but not that good. Really, let's call it for what it really is. Good point, but I think we have to look at the case in the context of the time. And I don't mean the serious racism of the time, I mean what was possible. 1896 is an interesting point in time. It's right before a series of major technological turning points in popular/mass culture and...bare with me please, lol...time space changing advances. Don't blame the federal government for what it couldn't do. Suppose the court ruled Jim crow was illegal? What then? Would William McKinley of led an army into the south to enforce it? Not a chance. Never would have happened. By the time Brown v Board is handed down it's a totally different world. Autos, trucks, planes, radio, movies, TV have all made the world a smaller place. At that point Jim Crow HAD to go, the army was already in the south--IKe sent the 101st air born to enforce school desegregation, the interstate highway system was around and meant Jim Crow was a real problem to a country on the move and the tv camera was there to record for the rest of the country and h rest of the cold to see. The decison may have been evil but it kind of didn't matter, nothing would have changed Oh it's absolutely an impossible sell to the American public. Look at Gator's responses (in all seriousness, not jest) -- you would think someone with his politics would be on board for something like this but he struggles to see the benefits because they're miles down the road. That's not a slam on Gator, just pointing out that his point of view on the matter is pretty common amongst folks of all political affiliations. It's tough to convince people to spend tax dollars on something with such abstract benefits. Hey, if I'm in charge and could spare the budge space, I'd fund NASA to the hilt. But I also understand other areas of research can spin off all sorts of other advances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I know... tax the rich! We're just asking them to pay A Little Bit MoreTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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