Tiberius Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Improved health? We do realize we have an obesity problem the is epidemic in our poor. And yes since the great society experiment we've lifted the poor up to great economic prosperity. And I'm the ignorant one. The "we haven't done enough, we need to throw more money at the problem" argument in 3....2.....1..... You are the ignorant one, that you got right. Obesity is a problem created by capitalism, cheap and easy sugar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 You are the ignorant one, that you got right. Obesity is a problem created by capitalism, cheap and easy sugar The government has been preaching healthy eating since I was in grade school. Government does a terrible job at problem solving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Government funded research did, and government funded projects created the economy of scale to make them affordable. Boom! boom? you ought to do a little research before posting things like that. semiconductors were invented and way into the refinement/development process before any government money came into play, but I am impressed with your tenacious approach to being so consistently and publicly incorrect. You are the ignorant one, that you got right. Obesity is a problem created by capitalism, cheap and easy sugar statements like this are exactly what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Obesity is a problem created by capitalism, cheap and easy sugar Once again the gatorman world would be perfect if only the government were in charge of feeding people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Once again the gatorman world would be perfect if only the government were in charge of feeding people. And taking them by the hand and walking them around the block to get some exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Which is how most of the really cool technology we enjoy today got here. The space program has always paid for itself - one of the very few programs that does. It's too bad NASA is so bureaucratically corrupt. To get back on topic, I realize that's how basically all of modern technology came about. What I'm saying is that you don't see the return right away, and it's not as though we can present a clear-cut return, right? The space program didn't start by saying, "Let's fund this so we can eventually develop (insert technology here) and here are all of its possible uses." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 To get back on topic, I realize that's how basically all of modern technology came about. What I'm saying is that you don't see the return right away, and it's not as though we can present a clear-cut return, right? The space program didn't start by saying, "Let's fund this so we can eventually develop (insert technology here) and here are all of its possible uses." And that is how pretty much every long term project, plan, business starts, develops and eventually operates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 To get back on topic, I realize that's how basically all of modern technology came about. What I'm saying is that you don't see the return right away, and it's not as though we can present a clear-cut return, right? The space program didn't start by saying, "Let's fund this so we can eventually develop (insert technology here) and here are all of its possible uses." The fact we don't see an immediate return is why only a governmental agency like NASA can lead the way in a project as daunting and dangerous as space exploration. Corporations cannot undertake these ventures without exposing themselves to fatal economic risks, only the state can lead a project like this -- because you're right. There's no telling what will be invented/developed out of this or how it will be applied. Pretty much every medical imaging machine used today came from the Apollo program or is a direct descendent of technology discovered during that push. The jobs and technology that come out of an investment in the space program can't be quantified or predicted -- which again is why corporate interests cannot help, it goes against their fiscal interests to deal with unknown risks for unknown rewards. Once the risks are identified, then privatization can actually be extremely helpful in terms of streamlining and ingenuity. But you cannot define the risks until you go. But like others have said in this thread, I do not think just saying "space exploration" is enough. There needs to be a plan or at least a vision that's bold enough to capture the imagination of the people. Mars seems obvious. Hell, even a colony on the moon (which would probably be required in some form before manned missions to Mars) would be an exciting project that's more than achievable without new technology. We could set up a colony tomorrow if money wasn't an issue. (ha!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 The government has been preaching healthy eating since I was in grade school. Government does a terrible job at problem solving. Solved the problem of Hitler pretty well. And racial discrimination and slavery. And all those old people getting goverment health care. Just depends I guess boom? you ought to do a little research before posting things like that. semiconductors were invented and way into the refinement/development process before any government money came into play, but I am impressed with your tenacious approach to being so consistently and publicly incorrect. statements like this are exactly what I'm talking about. You are an idiot The fact we don't see an immediate return is why only a governmental agency like NASA can lead the way in a project as daunting and dangerous as space exploration. Corporations cannot undertake these ventures without exposing themselves to fatal economic risks, only the state can lead a project like this -- because you're right. There's no telling what will be invented/developed out of this or how it will be applied. Pretty much every medical imaging machine used today came from the Apollo program or is a direct descendent of technology discovered during that push. The jobs and technology that come out of an investment in the space program can't be quantified or predicted -- which again is why corporate interests cannot help, it goes against their fiscal interests to deal with unknown risks for unknown rewards. Once the risks are identified, then privatization can actually be extremely helpful in terms of streamlining and ingenuity. But you cannot define the risks until you go. But like others have said in this thread, I do not think just saying "space exploration" is enough. There needs to be a plan or at least a vision that's bold enough to capture the imagination of the people. Mars seems obvious. Hell, even a colony on the moon (which would probably be required in some form before manned missions to Mars) would be an exciting project that's more than achievable without new technology. We could set up a colony tomorrow if money wasn't an issue. (ha!) Good, spend the money on medical research instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Solved the problem of Hitler pretty well. And racial discrimination and slavery. And all those old people getting goverment health care. Just depends I guess You are an idiot Good, spend the money on medical research instead They should spend the money analyzing how you do it to breathe and turn on your computer at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 They should spend the money analyzing how you do it to breathe and turn on your computer at the same time. Didn't Tom try that same insult? Can't you even be slightly original? I mean what a complete loser you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Solved the problem of Hitler pretty well. And racial discrimination and slavery. And all those old people getting goverment health care. Just depends I guess Hitler? Racial discrimination? I thought we were still rife with discrimination. That is the reason we dislike Obama right? Get your story straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Hitler? Racial discrimination? I thought we were still rife with discrimination. That is the reason we dislike Obama right? Get your story straight. Wasn't it the US government...and the commies...that ended Hitler? Oh I forgot your ignorance of history. You don't seem to get degrees of change either. "We" have made giant leaps forward on the racial front, and a lot of that is the federal government's doing. Jim Crow was better than slavery and today is better than Jim Crow. Even you can see that, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Wasn't it the US government...and the commies...that ended Hitler? Oh I forgot your ignorance of history. You don't seem to get degrees of change either. "We" have made giant leaps forward on the racial front, and a lot of that is the federal government's doing. Jim Crow was better than slavery and today is better than Jim Crow. Even you can see that, right? You said we solved racial discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 You said we solved racial discrimination. We did. Until you disagree with the colored president. Then it's back again. Until they decide to change it for the sake of the next moronic progressive argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 You said we solved racial discrimination. Solved it as in we now know what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 You are an idiot stop stealing Tom's material and hiding behind it. address your claim that we owe the advent of the semiconductor to the government. I'm all ears, bluff-boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 He loves Tom. He idolizes Tom. He's completely obsessed with his infatuation of Tom. His life is a film noir of obsession about Tom. Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Good, spend the money on medical research instead Just pouring money into medical research doesn't promise innovation or new techniques. It doesn't promote innovation or new fields of research, it just doubles down on existing innovations and theories because we can't put money into fields of research that don't exist yet. It is in fact a slower and more expensive way to make progress as it's a very narrow approach. Space exploration requires inventions and innovation in multiple fields simultaneously, increasing progress exponentially across the board. In other words, you the tax payer get more bang for your buck with space exploration than medical research. The catch is the benefits are unknown to us now. Yet history has shown us that investing in the space program benefits not only medical research but almost every other sector of the economy. The Apollo program created more sectors of industry, more jobs, and more medical progress than simply dumping money into the Golden Triangle. More than that, it's a unifying force rather than a divisive one. Everyone -- republican, democrat, pinko -- felt pride in the nation's accomplishments during the Apollo missions. It brought the country together in the middle of a turbulent decade. That's something this country could use in the worst way. Edited November 19, 2014 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 stop stealing Tom's material and hiding behind it. address your claim that we owe the advent of the semiconductor to the government. I'm all ears, bluff-boy. Oh, please. He thinks a semiconductor is a guy hired to drive trains part time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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