Deranged Rhino Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Throwing this out there for general discussion. Space exploration is politically agnostic, which I hoped would make it an interesting topic on here... There's little question that a national space program has the ability to unify a populace and provide untold riches in technological innovations which, in turn, create new economic and industrial sectors and jobs. There's also little question that the space program as a whole is a political non starter -- people don't want to pay for it with tax dollars and pols don't campaign on it because Joe Public cannot see the virtues of an investment in space exploration. We've seen presidents try to get people excited about space exploration, but no one but Kennedy had a plan or a bold enough vision to grab the nation's attention. W talked about going to Mars and back to the moon but never spent any serious political capital to even formulate a strategy. Obama has talked about Mars occasionally, but again without much of a plan or substance. 44 and 43's plans were mocked by opposing sides and pretty much forgotten minutes after their press conferences. Yes, space privatization is a good thing and will provide new innovations through corporate competition. But that's low Earth orbit, not space. Corporate innovation isn't going to get us to Mars because corporations aren't designed to take the kind of risks that will be required to figure out how to get there. So we need a NASA to lead the way. There's really no other entity other than the state to undertake ventures with such great unknown risks, it's never happened in history before and I doubt it will occur in the future. It took the Cold War to generate the support and urgency for the Apollo missions (as well as its predecessors), without an enemy to vanquish (the proper usage, not Joe B's usage) we'd probably never have gone to the moon. Certainly not by 1969. The geopolitical competition drove innovation to a degree that our species has never seen before. If the tea leaves are accurate and the world truly is on the brink of a second Cold War, maybe the silver lining will be the possible benefits to the space program. Right now the Chinese are landing rovers on the moon... what are the geopolitical consequences of a Chinese colony on the moon? That's a matter of national security and strategic importance on many levels, the moon is after all the highest ground to be found. The only thing that could be worse is a Russian sponsored manned mission to Mars while we're still taking pictures of with our (awesome) robots on the surface. The point, if there is one in this ramble, is that we're still reaping the benefits of the first space race to this day and still NASA is drastically underfunded and a complete non-issue politically or in day to day society. I for one believe that finding a way to duplicate the innovation and momentum of the Apollo program -- manned mission to Mars anyone? -- would go a long ways towards solving a lot of the nation's issues. From creating new jobs, strengthening the economy, to improving our collective futures as a species -- there's really no reason for this not to be on the docket, is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I wouldn't worry about space exploration when our leading scientists need some tips in fashion. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/11/18/robyn-urback-feminists-reinforce-their-worst-stereotypes-by-making-a-scandal-of-rosetta-scientists-sexist-shirt/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 What problems would it help solve? Seems kind of an expensive avenue to pursue technological advances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I know... tax the rich! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Raise minimum wage. ???? Colonize Mars. But seriously, when you say "create jobs," do you mean from a public works viewpoint or is there actual profit to be made? Edited November 19, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Raise minimum wage. ???? Colonize Mars. But seriously, when you say "create jobs," do you mean from a public works viewpoint or is there actual profit to be made? Well, any technological innovation would be passed onto industry so that it could exploit and make a profit off of what the government created. Just like with the internet, semiconductors and so many other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Well, any technological innovation would be passed onto industry so that it could exploit and make a profit off of what the government created. Just like with the internet, semiconductors and so many other things. Okay. But we'd be just fishing in the dark for the next big "breakthrough," no? Is space travel the necessary catalyst to beget innovation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 It has to start, I believe, with a mission around which the American people can rally. It can't just be "space exploration," but something more specific and aggressive. The work done at JPL for Mars exploration is the place to start, but it will never happen until the WH and Congress are occupied by people who see the benefits of space exploration beyond using NASA for Muslim outreach. You need people committed to the investment, and that hasn't been the case because the people running the show for the past six years have been convinced they need to take as much federal dough and line the pockets of donors and supporters first. In the end, it will take a bold mission.They exist. They just need to be brought to the attentions of Americans shortly after someone is able to convince the world that America truly is an exceptional place. Frankly, I'd like to see it part of someone's campaign in 2016. As it is, we're just a bunch of people waiting for France and Canada to make the first move on matters of importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Okay. But we'd be just fishing in the dark for the next big "breakthrough," no? Is space travel the necessary catalyst to beget innovation? Which is how most of the really cool technology we enjoy today got here. The space program has always paid for itself - one of the very few programs that does. It's too bad NASA is so bureaucratically corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Thaks NASA for Tang and cordless electric tools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I for one believe that finding a way to duplicate the innovation and momentum of the Apollo program -- manned mission to Mars anyone? -- would go a long ways towards solving a lot of the nation's issues. From creating new jobs, strengthening the economy, to improving our collective futures as a species -- there's really no reason for this not to be on the docket, is there? space exploration, especially a manned mission to Mars, is something on which I would not mind seeing some of my tax dollars spent. this may sound a bit maudlin to say, but it's always seemed to me that humanity's destiny lies somewhere out there. also, as you've already pointed out, we reaped a considerable amount of innovation, both simple and technological, from our competition with Russia to be the first on the moon. there's no reason to think that a push to travel to Mars wouldn't yield a similar benefit. Well, any technological innovation would be passed onto industry so that it could exploit and make a profit off of what the government created. Just like with the internet, semiconductors and so many other things. the government didn't 'create' semiconductors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 the government didn't 'create' semiconductors. Or the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 space exploration, especially a manned mission to Mars, is something on which I would not mind seeing some of my tax dollars spent. this may sound a bit maudlin to say, but it's always seemed to me that humanity's destiny lies somewhere out there. also, as you've already pointed out, we reaped a considerable amount of innovation, both simple and technological, from our competition with Russia to be the first on the moon. there's no reason to think that a push to travel to Mars wouldn't yield a similar benefit. I take it you haven't seen Interstellar Or the internet. No that was Al Gore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 the government didn't 'create' semiconductors. Government funded research did, and government funded projects created the economy of scale to make them affordable. Boom! Or the internet. Well, it wasn't an Austrian that created it. Lol, get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Government funded research did, and government funded projects created the economy of scale to make them affordable. I think most of us conservatives feel that NASA is one of the few government agencies created in the last 50 years that has actually done something positive for this country. See, unlike the drivel you like to push, we don't say "all government is bad." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I think most of us conservatives feel that NASA is one of the few government agencies created in the last 50 years that has actually done something positive for this country. See, unlike the drivel you like to push, we don't say "all government is bad." It's not helping the poor, so it can't be that bad, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 It's not helping the poor, so it can't be that bad, right? Yes because 50 years of "helping the poor" has put a dent in the ranks of the poor. At some point you have to come to the realization that many (not all you numbskull) are fine being poor and really provide no benifit to the country. So you keep throwing them stuff, just enough stuff to keep them poor and coming back for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Yes because 50 years of "helping the poor" has put a dent in the ranks of the poor. At some point you have to come to the realization that many (not all you numbskull) are fine being poor and really provide no benifit to the country. So you keep throwing them stuff, just enough stuff to keep them poor and coming back for more. Oh, there are lots of benefits to helping poor, you are just too historically ignorant to realize that. Improved health, lower crime, more chance of social mobility, great economic prosperity spread farther through gov jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Well, it wasn't an Austrian that created it. Lol, get it? I get that you've decided to lie again. There's not much depth beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Oh, there are lots of benefits to helping poor, you are just too historically ignorant to realize that. Improved health, lower crime, more chance of social mobility, great economic prosperity spread farther through gov jobs. Improved health? We do realize we have an obesity problem the is epidemic in our poor. And yes since the great society experiment we've lifted the poor up to great economic prosperity. And I'm the ignorant one. The "we haven't done enough, we need to throw more money at the problem" argument in 3....2.....1..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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