Gugny Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be punished, just surprised by the outcome. The NFL does seem to be flying by the seat of their pants though. I do have an issue with that I agree. The NFL and the players' association need to COMBINE to make, basically, a Uniform Code of Justice (much like the U.S. military) so punishments can be handed out consistently.
Gugny Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 The UCMJ is a perfect example of a well-documented set of rules that allows the governing body to enforce penalties, whether or not penalties from a court of law have been enforced. Something like that is EXACTLY what is needed in every professional sports league and it must be created by both the league and the players' union/association in order to avoid lengthy appeals, etc. And yes, I am a proud Navy veteran.
NoSaint Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 http://deadspin.com/how-the-nfl-exploited-a-child-abuser-to-restore-its-bra-1660155478?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=tuesdayPM deadspin with a controversial take on the punishment, that i think some here will agree with and others hate
packfntk Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 Independent arbitrator Shyam Das has ruled the NFL can keep Adrian Peterson on the exempt list. Peterson is still appealing his year-ending suspension, but this is a major blow to his odds of suiting up in 2014. Commissioner Roger Goodell is now officially Peterson's judge, jury and executioner, and the NFL has made it quite clear it's not planning to be lenient. If you've been stashing AD in hopes of a late-season return, the odds are now slim enough that he should be let go. Four months shy of his 30th birthday, Peterson is at a career crossroads. It's likely he's played his last snap in Minnesota.
Augie Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 The UCMJ is a perfect example of a well-documented set of rules that allows the governing body to enforce penalties, whether or not penalties from a court of law have been enforced. Something like that is EXACTLY what is needed in every professional sports league and it must be created by both the league and the players' union/association in order to avoid lengthy appeals, etc. And yes, I am a proud Navy veteran. Just wondering if this is where the meltdown began....
Rob's House Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 Caught this today. Another reason I'm no longer interested in the NFL. The league is becoming a bad joke. Between garbage rules/officiating that turn the outcomes of games on a weekly basis, the prohibition on defense, and the social morality engineering/pandering, I see more to despise than like.
papazoid Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 NFL sees sharp decline in hits on defenseless players Not everyone likes the NFL’s emphasis on cracking down on hits on defenseless players. But like it or not, NFL players are changing the way they play to avoid getting fined and flagged. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/14/nfl-sees-sharp-decline-in-hits-on-defenseless-players/ the NFL's emphasis on personal conduct will change player behavior as it has on hits to defenseless players. they will get the message.
Mr. WEO Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 I don't remember everything that was going on, but as I remember, he was suspended by the team, reinstated, then after public backlash, he agreed to step away with pay. IIRC it wasn't an ultimatum but again I don't really remember Actually, the Vikings put him on the "Exempt/Commissioner's Permission" list, so it wasn't Goodell at all. And it wasn't voluntary on Peterson's part. Caught this today. Another reason I'm no longer interested in the NFL. The league is becoming a bad joke. Between garbage rules/officiating that turn the outcomes of games on a weekly basis, the prohibition on defense, and the social morality engineering/pandering, I see more to despise than like. No longer interested in the NFL? Serious question---why does it bother you how some a**hole who caned his child, or beats his wife, is dealt with by the league? How does it interrupt your viewing pleasure? I mean, we all get to bloviate on these non-game issues on sites like this, but come game day, does anyone really say, "man, the game is just not the same without Peterson/Rice/whoever playing in a game somewhere today--it's totally ruined!"? I can't even imagine anyone truly thinking this.
Captain Hindsight Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Actually, the Vikings put him on the "Exempt/Commissioner's Permission" list, so it wasn't Goodell at all. And it wasn't voluntary on Peterson's part. Do you have a link?
Mr. WEO Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Do you have a link? http://www.sbnation....mpt-child-abuse http://espn.go.com/n...ings-activities and many others. This has been his status all along. He could have challenged it but he didn't. He's still on the list until after his appeal. Edited November 19, 2014 by Mr. WEO
Maury Ballstein Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Time for the soccer moms to get Dwight Howard next, heard he beat his kid with a belt. AP went through court and has no priors. He should be back on the field. Edited November 19, 2014 by Ryan L Billz
FireChan Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Time for the soccer moms to get Dwight Howard next, heard he beat his kid with a belt. AP went through court and has no priors. He should be back on the field. Bingo.
Mango Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Time for the soccer moms to get Dwight Howard next, heard he beat his kid with a belt. AP went through court and has no priors. He should be back on the field. I never really understand this. Something as simple (not demeaning the offense) as a DUI conviction would cost many people their jobs or make them unhirable for a lot of professions. The courts never said don't hire this person. They don't rule that you can't go back to work, yet it happens all the time, and reasonably so. So I posit this to, not just you, but other posters as well. Go beat your kid with a stick, bloody and bruise his genitals. Have it in the front page of every paper. Then show up to court and tear positive for weed. (Not a weed issue, just a known agreement based on probation). Then go sit down with your boss and tell him all about it. Think you still have a job regardless of court judgment? The answer is no in just about every profession. Teacher, IT, engineer, graphic design, realtor. Sure you are welcome to find other similar employment. The part I think people miss is that the company is the NFL not the teams. Akin to being banned from McDonalds. Sure go to BK, problem is there is one NFL. I'll say this, I lived at the Olympic Training Center for a few years. I do this, and I am kicked out in a a second.
FireChan Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) I never really understand this. Something as simple (not demeaning the offense) as a DUI conviction would cost many people their jobs or make them unhirable for a lot of professions. The courts never said don't hire this person. They don't rule that you can't go back to work, yet it happens all the time, and reasonably so. So I posit this to, not just you, but other posters as well. Go beat your kid with a stick, bloody and bruise his genitals. Have it in the front page of every paper. Then show up to court and tear positive for weed. (Not a weed issue, just a known agreement based on probation). Then go sit down with your boss and tell him all about it. Think you still have a job regardless of court judgment? The answer is no in just about every profession. Teacher, IT, engineer, graphic design, realtor. Sure you are welcome to find other similar employment. The part I think people miss is that the company is the NFL not the teams. Akin to being banned from McDonalds. Sure go to BK, problem is there is one NFL. I'll say this, I lived at the Olympic Training Center for a few years. I do this, and I am kicked out in a a second. So you don't believe in second-chances or rehabilitation? Why have a court system at all then? Death penalty or life sentences for all convicted crimes. How many CEO's get canned for DUI's? Edited November 20, 2014 by FireChan
Rob's House Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) No longer interested in the NFL? Serious question---why does it bother you how some a**hole who caned his child, or beats his wife, is dealt with by the league? How does it interrupt your viewing pleasure? I mean, we all get to bloviate on these non-game issues on sites like this, but come game day, does anyone really say, "man, the game is just not the same without Peterson/Rice/whoever playing in a game somewhere today--it's totally ruined!"? I can't even imagine anyone truly thinking this. My lack of interest is primarily due to a combination of the continuous futility of the Bills and the rules/officiating that turns close games into a coin toss. But this bull **** morality play by the league just reinforces my antipathy for it. It has nothing to do with my concerns for the individual players. If I'm going to spend emotion feeling sorry for someone it's not going to be a multi-millionaire athlete who got ****-canned AFTER getting his millions. It's about how it reflects on the broader culture. It encourages and endorses the practice of" society" deciding to destroy the livelihoods of others for anything the public deems noteworthy, but without any set of standards. Willy nilly justice is a dangerous thing. Great lengths have been taken to ensure we remain are governed by rule of laws, rather than rule of men. While NFL commissioners aren't subject to constitutional safeguards, it sets an example in the consciousness of the masses that they can destroy the unpopular without due process. I might not have a legal argument as to how to prevent it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Edited November 20, 2014 by Rob's House
papazoid Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Goodell got Peterson punishment right, says head of domestic violence hotline http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-11-19/nfl-adrian-peterson-suspension-goodell-national-domestic-violence-hotline-reaction-ceo-letter-take-responsibility-remorse-serious-message
KD in CA Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 It's about how it reflects on the broader culture. It encourages and endorses the practice of" society" deciding to destroy the livelihoods of others for anything the public deems noteworthy, but without any set of standards. Willy nilly justice is a dangerous thing. Great lengths have been taken to ensure we remain are governed by rule of laws, rather than rule of men. While NFL commissioners aren't subject to constitutional safeguards, it sets an example in the consciousness of the masses that they can destroy the unpopular without due process. This is an excellent point, but Adrian Peterson is a really, really bad poster child for the argument. Plus, let's point the finger where it belongs: the media. They've been destroying lives willy-nilly (motivated by fun and profit) since Al Campanis fumbled his words on Nightline almost 30 years ago. As with any high profile outfit, the NFL has to live by the rules of public relations or face the consequences.
NoSaint Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 This is an excellent point, but Adrian Peterson is a really, really bad poster child for the argument. Plus, let's point the finger where it belongs: the media. They've been destroying lives willy-nilly (motivated by fun and profit) since Al Campanis fumbled his words on Nightline almost 30 years ago. As with any high profile outfit, the NFL has to live by the rules of public relations or face the consequences. The deadspin article linked covers both the idea that the nfl and its media create an echo chamber effect - coupled with who the hell wants to speak up when it's child abuse. It's an easy place to railroad someone for PR instead of justice.... if that's your goal.
JohnC Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I never really understand this. Something as simple (not demeaning the offense) as a DUI conviction would cost many people their jobs or make them unhirable for a lot of professions. The courts never said don't hire this person. They don't rule that you can't go back to work, yet it happens all the time, and reasonably so. So I posit this to, not just you, but other posters as well. Go beat your kid with a stick, bloody and bruise his genitals. Have it in the front page of every paper. Then show up to court and tear positive for weed. (Not a weed issue, just a known agreement based on probation). Then go sit down with your boss and tell him all about it. Think you still have a job regardless of court judgment? The answer is no in just about every profession. Teacher, IT, engineer, graphic design, realtor. Sure you are welcome to find other similar employment. The part I think people miss is that the company is the NFL not the teams. Akin to being banned from McDonalds. Sure go to BK, problem is there is one NFL. I'll say this, I lived at the Olympic Training Center for a few years. I do this, and I am kicked out in a a second. The problem with a strongman (Goodell) judicial system that not only decides on guilt, punishment and also the person who hears the appeal is that it is erratic system that is based on the judgment of one person. If you want to create a system that demands forfeiture of one's employment because of certain behavior then so stipulate it as a policy. Making the rules as you go along is too arbitrary and capricious. The Ray Rice punishment folly was due to Goodell's poor judgment in deciding the judgment for his brutal behavior. He based his punishment on the precedents that he himself established, and then when the avalanche of public ourtrage was expressed at his puny punishment level he later responded with a harsher punishment by claiming that facts were later discovered by him. That is not true because everything t.he knew later was known prior to his original meting out of punishment. The bottom line was that he was covering his stained arse because of his own poor original judgment. As you noted there are plenty of jobs that stipulate that private behavior is a consideration in retention of employment. That is understood prior to taking the job. That isn't the case in the Peterson situation. If you are going to have rules applying to behavior then make the rules so they are clearly understood by the employees. This making the rules as you go along or changing the rules depending how the public reacts is fraught with unfairness. There needs to be a quasi judicial system in place that is fortified with explict rules and administered by people who don't have an obvious conflict of interest. Adrian Peterson is not a popular person but the league system was stacked against him even after he cooperated with the real judicial system dealing with his child abuse case.
Mr. WEO Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I never really understand this. Something as simple (not demeaning the offense) as a DUI conviction would cost many people their jobs or make them unhirable for a lot of professions. The courts never said don't hire this person. They don't rule that you can't go back to work, yet it happens all the time, and reasonably so. So I posit this to, not just you, but other posters as well. Go beat your kid with a stick, bloody and bruise his genitals. Have it in the front page of every paper. Then show up to court and tear positive for weed. (Not a weed issue, just a known agreement based on probation). Then go sit down with your boss and tell him all about it. Think you still have a job regardless of court judgment? The answer is no in just about every profession. Teacher, IT, engineer, graphic design, realtor. Sure you are welcome to find other similar employment. The part I think people miss is that the company is the NFL not the teams. Akin to being banned from McDonalds. Sure go to BK, problem is there is one NFL. I'll say this, I lived at the Olympic Training Center for a few years. I do this, and I am kicked out in a a second. Great post. So you don't believe in second-chances or rehabilitation? Why have a court system at all then? Death penalty or life sentences for all convicted crimes. How many CEO's get canned for DUI's? Who "canned" Peterson? No one. He's made millions so far this year while kicking back and smoking weed and occasionally showing up in court. Anyway, it is not your employer's responsibility to rehabilitate criminal employees. They do not owe them that and never have. It's strange to even assume they do. My lack of interest is primarily due to a combination of the continuous futility of the Bills and the rules/officiating that turns close games into a coin toss. But this bull **** morality play by the league just reinforces my antipathy for it. It has nothing to do with my concerns for the individual players. If I'm going to spend emotion feeling sorry for someone it's not going to be a multi-millionaire athlete who got ****-canned AFTER getting his millions. It's about how it reflects on the broader culture. It encourages and endorses the practice of" society" deciding to destroy the livelihoods of others for anything the public deems noteworthy, but without any set of standards. Willy nilly justice is a dangerous thing. Great lengths have been taken to ensure we remain are governed by rule of laws, rather than rule of men. While NFL commissioners aren't subject to constitutional safeguards, it sets an example in the consciousness of the masses that they can destroy the unpopular without due process. I might not have a legal argument as to how to prevent it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Look, I've posted a lot on the foolishness of following public opinion when handing out such punishments. Mainly, though, I 've gone the opposite tack as you--I've argued that "the public", by and large, really doesn't feel strongly always about these crimes. In this day and age, they are able to publish their outrage on any website, blog or board. Then they go back to not caring--just as they have about Ray Rice. It's all phony outrage--makes everyone feel good to yell about someone else. Everyone becomes a pundit, a columnist. It's pure interactive entertainment. But you know what? If you ONLY watched the games, you would never know any of this other stuff existed (almost, really) and your enjoyment would be fully preserved.
Recommended Posts